Tonight on Close Up ` following last night's revelations around the Bronwyn Pullar saga, John Key fronts up for our cameras. A sir and a criminal ` should Sir Doug Graham lose his knighthood after being convicted in the Lombard Finance trial? And honouring our petrolhead heritage ` we meet the riders tearing up Western Springs Raceway tomorrow night. Due to the live nature of Close Up, captions for some items may be incomplete. ONE News captions by Faith Hamblyn and Kelsey Taylor. Close Up captions by Hugo Snell and John Ling. No inquiry. 'I barely know her.' That's the line from John Key about the ongoing drama about ACC, the conduct of senior National Party figures and a woman called Bronwyn Pullar who's become something of a thorn in the Goverment's side. But it's not a saga that's going away. Last night Close Up revealed the Prime Minister was named in a letter concerning a multi-million dollar insurance claim. Former minister Nick Smith's resigned. There's talk of another minister taking legal action. Is John Key concerned he's got more trouble on his hands? And that was just the question I put to the Prime Minister when I spoke to him earlier today. Uh, look, as far as I'm concerned, I can just tell you what I know, which is I met Bronwyn when I first came into the National Party, which was about 2002. Um, she came up to me. My memory is on a number of occasions, uh, and there were at National Party functions ` picnics and the likes of things. Uh, she had a real beef with ACC. Didn't she feel was given a fair treatment. Uh, she raised those issues with me. I remember that. Uh, but in terms of that, that's as far as it went. Um, I've never been any part of any support group or advisory group. Uh, look, I don't have Bronwyn Pullar's mobile phone or any other phone number in my phone. I've never rung her. I've gone through both my electorate office and all of my parliamentary office files. There's never been any correspondance received from her or sent to her, and I've never gone to any sort of meeting or any support group. So, look, all I can tell you is what I know, but I do know that lots of examples ` people who tangently know me ` drop my name into things, and that does happen. I can't stop that. Are you angry she's a name dropper? Look, people drop other people's names when they think it can be of benefit to them. Um, I can't tell you, you know, who's responsible for that. Um, short of yesterday, I've never heard of the letter before. But all I can tell you is I've got absolutely nothing to hide. I had a great night's sleep last night because I know what I've done and I know what I haven't done, and I haven't been involved in this particular incident. Wayne Mapp, of course, was involved. Her connection to the party, her usage of people she knows, none of that bothers you? I don't know any details of that, but I assume that's the case. In terms of ACC, actually, her main beef is that she hasn't, in her mind, had a good deal from ACC. Now, what that shows you is that, yes, MPs advocate for people. It happens all the time. As I've said, I've done it on numerous occasions. If one of my constituents walked into my electorate office tomorrow with a gripe about ACC, and I felt it was legitimate, my staff and I would send a letter off to ACC. We'd do exactly the same thing for any member of the public. But look what we've ended up with. She's wrecked Nick Smith's career. Judith Collins is suing other MPs. She's dropped your name into something that you've got nothing to do with, and it's all the result of this one woman. This late-edited item will be captioned live. SHE HAS BEEN EXTREMELY PERSISTENT AND SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE THAT. TERRIBLY SORRY THAT WE LOST NICK SMITH. I THINK HE COULD HAVE AVOIDED THAT SITUATION. THAT'S WHY HE OFFERED TO RESIGN. A CONFLICT OF INTEREST HE PUT HIMSELF IN THAT CONFLICT OF INTEREST. CONFLICTS OF INTEREST MUST BE MANAGED THE RESPONSIBILITY HAS TO REST WITH HIM. SHE'S USED HER CONNECTIONS TO GET TO SOME SORT OF ADVANTANGE. WHY DON'T YOU USE THAT TO GET TO HER? WELL, I DON'T HAVE HER NUMBER. I DON'T TALK TO HER, AND I'VE ONLY TALKED TO HER AT EVENTS. I DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT CLOSE UP AND TV ONE HAVE RUN STORIES THAT ARE WRONG ABOUT ME WHICH ARE BLATANTLY WRONG ABOUT ME. ALL I CAN DO IS DO WHAT I'M DOING NOW. IT'S PATENTLY WRONG. BRING OUT INFO IF YOU THINK I'M NOT TELLING THE TRUTH. GOOD LUCK TO YOU. YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE WILD IMAGINATION. AS WE GO INTO THE WEEKEND, DO YOU STILL THINK NO INQUIRY NEEDED? INQUIRY ABOUT WHAT? IF YOU LOOK AT THE INFO, IT'S PRIVACY CONCERNS FOR THE COMMISSIONER AND THE POLICE. IN TERMS OF THE INFO SENT TO JUDITH COLLINS, AGAIN, THAT'S SUBJECT TO AN INQUIRY. SO, AN INQUIRY INTO WHAT? NICK SMITH HAS LEFT HIS POST SHE'S JUST DISGRUNTLED. Well, what are your views? Go to our website or email us at closeup@tvnz.co.nz And we're on Facebook too ` facebook.com/closeup Coming up ` one of the convicted Lombard directors with a message for the people who lost big. And the grunt and grace of tearing around the speedway track. There's no in between. There's just absolutely flat out, and th-they're so much safer to ride when they're flat out. It was the ultimate fall from grace ` a former justice minister ending up in the dock, facing the prospect of a stint in jail. Bill Jeffries is one of four directors of the failed Lombard Finance Company. Yesterday he was sentenced. And while he avoided jail time, Jeffries cannot avoid the wrath of Lombard investors who're left out of pocket by over $100m. Tonight Bill Jeffries breaks his silence. He spoke exclusively to Jehan Casinader. Bill Jeffries is facing some home truths. Over 4000 NZers lost over $100m in a company that I was a director. Who caused the losses? What caused the losses? And the answer is? > Well, it's complicated. What's not complicated is that Lombard's directors weren't upfront with investors. Four were found guilty of making false statements. After being sentenced yesterday, his lips were sealed. No, no. It's a time for silence. Today Bill JeffriesG 8 Today B I didn't think, at the beginning of 2008, major finance institutions would be hit. And if you thought the Lombard saga was over, think again. Jeffries is going to appeal his conviction. I have to obey the law. I will obey the law. But I have rights. When Lombard went under in 2008, the global financial sector were in meltdown mode. Investors would say you're a smart man. You're experienced. You should have seen the writing on the wall. Well, that's the big question. Uh, because what is the writing on the wall? Sometimes it can't be seen. Sometimes the writing on the wall is in invisible ink. It's so much easier to say that after the event. But we did not pick a radical change coming. But Lombard was struggling with its cash flow. Did you believe that Lombard was running into trouble? Not trouble. I believed that Lombard was experiencing cyclic difficulties at that time, but I did not imagine what came in 2008. We realised that this was serious, and we took serious steps, but the speed and the severity of the changes did catch us unawares. Bill Jeffries says he and the other directors made reasonable decisions. I myself did not think there was going to be a radical slump in the underlying values of real estate in NZ at that time. Do you think you misread the tea leaves? > Well, after the event, everybody is clever. But Lombard's prospectus didn't give the full picture. It left out important information about Lombard's position. The court found investors wouldn't have handed over money if they knew all the facts. Do you take responsibility for what's happened? Well, I take the responsibility that I had, uh, as a director in it. And I don't resign from that at all, and I accept that whilst I was the director, people lost savings, and I regret that. But in the same breath, Jeffries says he's planning to appeal his conviction, and he hints there is more to Lombard's collapse than meets the eye. There's a tendency to personalise events that occur and say, 'Well, it's so and so's fault.' There is more to it than that. The whole truth will eventually be established. Jeffries doesn't regret being involved in Lombard in the first place. NZ needs good, professional company directors as much as it needs good All Blacks. And good company directors have to manage risk, but they can't eliminate risk from investment. That's the nature of investment, and it's the nature of wealth creation. Yesterday the former justice minister was sentenced 400 hours of community work. He was not forced to pay reparation. It's been described as a fall from grace. Oh, there's no question about that ` for a man who served the law to be convicted of breaking the law is a fall from grace. Former ACT leader Rodney Hide wants one of the Lombard four stripped of his knighthood. Sir Doug Graham was made a knight companiion for services as a minister of the Crown and member of Parliament. But Rodney Hide says you can't have a convicted crook being called sir. There are historical precedents but, as Mark Crysell reports, not many. After the honour can come the dishonour, or, in English jockey Lester Piggott's case, the dismount ` stripped of his OBE for tax evasion. We're standing exactly in front of the famous portrait of, uh, Charles I by van Dyck. Sir Anthony Blunt, knocked down to plain mister after admitting spying for the Russians. And that's a profound and unqualified apology for all of the distress that has been caused. The head of the Royal Bank of Scotland, Sir Fred Goodwin, knighted as a complete banker, didn't do anything illegal, but become the poster boy for the world's banking collapse. Former Christchurch deputy mayor Dr Morgan Fahy is the most recent NZer stripped of his honour. He lost his OBE in 2000 when he was jailed for rape, sexual violation and indecent assault. But author Margaret Mahy stayed in the Order of NZ despite being convicted for driving drunk. And despite being locked up for perjury, Lord Jeffrey Archer kept his peerage, but the home of cricket kicked him out. He can now sit in the House of Lords, but he can't watch cricket with the members at Lord's. So, should Sir Doug Graham give back the knighthood or have it taken off him and revert simply to minister? With us former MP Rodney Hide, and in Wellington lawyer and former MP Stephen Franks. OH, IF THE KNIGHTHOOD MEANS ANYTHING, THEN THEY HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE OF INTEGRITY AND PEOPLE YOU LOOK UP TO IT'S ABOUT THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE. DOUGLAS GRAHAM IS A CONVICTED CRIMINAL IF HE WAS A MAN OF INTEGRITY, THEN HE SHOULD HAVE OFFERED IT UP. HE WAS GIVEN IT FOR WORK THAT STILL STANDS. NOT FOR FINANCE HE CAN BE PROUD OF THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE OBLIGATED TO CALL A CRIMINAL SIR. THE REALITY IS THAT'S WHAT THE COURT FOUND. HE SHOULD TELL THE PM HE WANTS OUT OF IT IS THERE LAW AROUND THIS? THERE'S NO LAW ABOUT IT. IT'LL BE A MATTER OF HONOUR OR THE QUEEN DOING IT. THE QUEEN CAN WITHDRAW IT. IF A PERSON'S WITHOUT INTEGRITY, I WOULD AGREE, BUT THE COURT WAS VERY CLEAR. THE SENTENCING SAID THERE WAS NO QUESTION OF DECEIT THE JUDGE SAID THAT IF THE VICTIMS HAD BEEN IN THE COURT, THEN THEIR HONESTY WOULDN'T BE UNDER ATTACK. HE SAID THAT THEY HAD GENUINE VIEWS. THEY HAD TRIED TO DEAL HONESTLY WITH INVESTORS THIS WAS LIKE A SPEEDING OFFENCE, CARELESSNESS. IT'S MORE THAN THAT. HE'S BEEN CONVICTED I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD EXPECT THEM TO LOSE THEIR HONOURS, BUT THE LAW HAS BLURRED THE BOUNDARIES BETWEEN WICKEDNESS, INTENTIONAL EVIL AND IN THIS CASE MISJUDGMENT. MARGARET MAHY, DRUNK DRIVING ` WHY NOT HER? I THINK A CONVICTED CRIME LIKE THIS IS DIFFERENT, REALLY. DOUGLAS GRAHAM DIDN'T MISLEAD? STEPHEN'S POINT IS WITH THE LAW, AND HE AND I MIGHT AGREE ON THAT. THE GRIM REALITY IS THAT PARLIAMENT PASSED THAT LAW. I'M ALSO CONCERNED THAT DOUGLAS GRAHAM WOULD BE USING HIS KNIGHTHOOD FOR FINANCIAL ADVANTAGE ` IF IT WAS JOE BLOGGS, YOU WOULD LOOK AT THE TRACK RECORD. PEOPLE WITH KNIGHTHOODS SHOULDN'T BE SLURRED BY HAVING HIM IN THEIR RANKS. DO YOU HAVE, STEPHEN, A SYSTEM FOR PEOPLE AWARDED, THEIR WORK STANDS? WELL, NO, I WOULD AGREE WITH RODNEY. THESE GUYS CAN STAND WITH INTEGRITY. MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF INQUIRING, THEY COULDN'T FIND ANY LOOKING AFTER THEMSELVES. UNLIKE OTHER COMPANIES, THE MONEY WAS LOST WHEN THE ASSETS COULDN'T PAY. NO MONEY SQUIRRELED AWAY BUT THE COURT FOUND THEM CONVICTED OF MAKING UNTRUE STATEMENTS WHICH HAD LURED PEOPLE IN. RESPECTED PILLARS OF SOCIETY. THEY HAD HONOURS. I DON'T SEE WHY WE SHOULD BE OBLIGATED, IF A SYSTEM IS TO HAVE ANY INTEGRITY, WHY SHOULD WE CALL A CRIMINAL A SIR? WE ARE IN FACT GETTING CLOSE TO A POPULARITY CONTEST. NONE OF THAT GETS MONEY BACK, DOES IT? NO, AND THE MONEY WHICH WAS LOST WAS PROBABLY $1.7 MILLION. FINANCE COMPANIES ` IF THEY COULDN'T ISSUE A PROSPECTUS, THEY HAD TO SHUT DOWN EVERYONE ELSE HAD DONE THEIR DOUGH THE DAY THEY PUT IT IN. THE LAW IS DEMEANING ITSELF I THINK THEY SHOULD CALL IT RECKLESSNESS. RECKLESSNESS IS A BETTER TERM. DOUGLAS GRAHAM HAS FALLEN SHORT. APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. After the break ` churning up the track with some of the best in the business Flying dirt, revving high-performance engines. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but there's been more noise about speedway this week than for many a year. Why? Because the world speedway Grand Prix circus has hit Auckland for the first time, and that's got Michael Holland all fired up. ENGINES REV, GRUNT It's head-splitting noisy. It's more grime than glam. ENGINES ROAR But those who appreciate see this... as a ballet of balance,... It's all about body weight, weight transfer on the bike, body-weight distribution. ...grunt and grace on two wheels. There's no in between. There's just absolutely flat out, and they are so much safer to ride when they're flat out. They are made to do a job. They are made to slide sideways, so they are excellent fun. Straight on the front peg, mate, arms straight. Nice and drop it in, drop it in. ENGINE CHANGES TONE Beautiful. He clearly hails from somewhere else. Can you speak Kiwi, though? Oh, yeah, chur, bro. (CHUCKLES) But as reigning and seven-time NZ, Jason Bunyan's at the top of our speedway tree. A tree with deep roots tracing back to the world-beating heroics of the '60s and '70s. Ronnie Moore. You've got your Barry Briggs. You've got your Ivan Maugers. Absolute legends and then to be even classed in the same sentence as them guys is, like, unbelievable. And at Western Springs tomorrow he'll take another step up, wearing our colours in battle against 15 of the sport's best in the first round of the World Speedway Grand Prix series. What does this and this mean to you? Oh, it means the world to me. You guys took me in nine years ago when I was injured. Had people help me get my career back on track when I've been bit down. I just want to do us proud. And just as proud to be doing his bit for this country's next generation of riders. And back. Yeah, beautiful. And drop her in again. That's better. We are getting quicker and quicker. Yeah, he's the man. He's my friend too. He's everyone's friend. He's a nice guy. This is obviously the brake? No, that's the clutch. There's no brakes. There's no brakes on this machine at all? No, no brakes at all. No. You go and throw a brake in there halfway through a bend when you are fully locked up - it's not really the thing we are wanting. Brad's now on a 250 four stroke, one step down from the 500, and he's really wringing the neck off it. ENGINE ROARS He's brilliant. He's got the whole weight transition down to a tee. This is the stage we want to see kids at. As it happens, this only the second time Brad Andrew (13) has been back on the bike since breaking his leg in a skirmish with the wall. Broken legs and all, you love it? Yeah. You don't have to do it, Brad. You don't have to do it. I want to. 16 breaks so far. 16 breaks? Yeah. Whereabouts? Everything, mate. Three broken legs, arm hanging off, loads of collarbones, nose ` that's why it's a bit disfigured. He's got full shoulder, full elbow, the knees, the boots are full protective boots ` they go all the way up. ENGINE REVS We've got the air jacket. We've got the air jacket. If I have the most big-arse crash, this clip here pulls out, and she's connected to a canister. She comes out and then the whole thing inflates, your shoulders, your front, your back, all the way down to your coccyx. Bounce along the track? And bounce along, just like a bouncy castle. Does Mum know your bike doesn't have brakes? Yeah, she does. She's OK with it. You sure about that? Yeah, she is. Run on pure methanol, 500cc single prop. This will buck you off backwards? If it doesn't want to buck me off, we have a shortage of power. If I can help these kids get to England and help them out in Europe and give them that step up they need, that would be fantastic. You're a good geezer. I wish you the very best of luck, but I can't help myself. SNAP! (GRUNTS) (CHUCKLES) Michelin man? Cheers, mate. Time for your feedback now and on John Key's response to the ongoing saga with Bronwyn Pullar. Dez says,... Robyn writes,... Ken has this: And that's NZ Close Up. Captions were made possible with funding from NZ On Air.