GOOD MORNING, AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M SUSAN WOOD. ON THE PROGRAMME THIS SUNDAY ` I'm taking full responsibility. I'm resigning. THAT IS NOT A SMALL STEP TO TAKE. SO WHO WILL STEP UP? HOPEFUL GRANT ROBERTSON JOINS US. ALSO, HOW TO TURN AROUND LABOUR'S DISASTROUS ELECTION RESULT, AND REBRAND. Maybe Labour should have a new name. AND ISIS ` WHAT IS NZ'S INVOLVEMENT? DAVID SHEARER JOINS US LIVE FROM NEW YORK. WE'LL TAKE A LOOK BACK AT THE POLITICAL WEEK WITH INTERVIEWER RACHEL SMALLEY AND ANALYSE ALL THE ISSUES WITH OUR PANEL, DR BRYCE EDWARDS, DEBORAH MAHUTA-COYLE, DAVID FARRAR AND ROBERT REID. DUE TO THE LIVE NATURE OF Q+A, WE APOLOGISE FOR THE LACK OF CAPTIONS FOR SOME ITEMS. GONE... FOR NOW. LABOUR LEADER DAVID CUNLIFFE WILL STEP ASIDE ON TUESDAY. BUT HE IS ALREADY PLANNING HIS COMEBACK. A WEEK OUT FROM THE WORST LABOUR DEFEAT IN NEARLY 100 YEARS, DAVID CUNLIFFE HAS FINALLY MADE THE DECISION HIS CRITICS SAY HE SHOULD HAVE MADE A WEEK EARLIER. AND ONCE AGAIN HE WILL GO THROUGH A LEADERSHIP CONTEST, AS WILL GRANT ROBERSTON, WHO IS WITH RACHEL SMALLEY. Grant Robertson, welcome. Was David Cunliffe forced to resign? Ask him that question the caucus had a discussion last Tuesday about the election result What did they talk about there? We had a robust discussion about the election result. We polled 24%. He clearly didn't want to resign. He did resign yesterday. He's taken his own decision. He triggerEd this process. I want to focus on how we rebuild this party. Would it be the printer is on caucus for David Cunliffe to resign and not seek reelection? The Labour Party has a process. We will go to the members and talk about the future of the party. Would it be your preference not for him to stand again? I couldn't stand by and see the party poll 24% and not do something. But would it be your preference? I support the process that the Labour Party has to select the leader. I think it is important that the members of the party have a say. David has triggered this, and it's what we will do. How much support in the caucus will you have? I'm confident in the support I would have. If you win, would you want Cunliffe to remain in your caucus? I think David Cunliffe has a talent in politics. I think I can unify the Labour Party. There needs to be a strong Labour Party for the sake of New Zealand. Who would you choose as your deputy? I haven't give any thought to that. The choice of deputy is the choice of caucus. Those issues will come up in time. We have got Jacinda Ardern, Kelvin Davis, David Shearer. They could be your deputy. The focus at the moment has to be about making sure that Labour has a plan to reconnect with New Zealanders. One criticism would be that if you win the leadership and you are essential Wellington MP and you chose Jacinda Ardern, central Auckland MP, there is an issue. Jacinda Ardern is like a lot of caucus members. She comes from Morrinsville. We have a lot of backgrounds in our caucus. A woman came up to me in Wellington, a minimum wage worker with three children. The Labour Party owes it to her to be an advocate for her. Will it be a two horse race, you versus Cunliffe? Any member of the Caucus can put their name forward. I'm putting myself forward because I believe we need a new generation of leadership and reconnect with New Zealanders. Caucus does want to. That is clear. The party may not. We have to unify Labour around the ideas that bring us to the Labour Party in the first place, which is about putting people first and giving people a fair go. The caucus, the party and the affiliated unions can unify around ideas that always stood the Labour Party well. Unification is not Labour's mastermind topic. You can say that's what you will plan to do... we have to do it. There is no option for the Labour Party. The ideas and values of the Labour Party around giving people a fair go being relevant To New Zealanders, the Labour Party has that history. Everybody that we spoke to about David Cunliffe says people don't like him. I hope I'm a likeable person. I think I have the ability to communicate our message in a way that is relevant. We need to look at why we lost and listen to New Zealanders. In two elections in a row, we have ended up in the 20s. Who are the unions going to support this time? I would like them to support me. I think I can bring the party together, be a new generation leader and make Labour relevant. We will only do that if we listen to a broad spectrum of New Zealanders. We lost half 1 million voters. We need to bring them back. How will the party funD the leadership contest? That is an issue that the party will will deal with. I support the process of electing the leader. The party will find the resources. SEND US YOUR THOUGHTS. WE'RE ON TWITTER. YOU CAN EMAIL US OR TEXT YOUR THOUGHTS AND FIRST NAME TO 2211. EACH TEXT COSTS 50C. UP NEXT OUR PANEL WILL ANALYSE THE PROS AND CONS OF THE LABOUR LEADER HOPEFULS. AND LABOUR'S SENIOR WHIP CHRIS HIPKINS AND LABOUR'S SUCCESS STORY MP, KELVIN DAVIS. WELCOME, PANEL. POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR BRYCE EDWARDS FROM OTAGO UNIVERSITY; COMMUNICATIONS CONSULTANT AND FORMER LABOUR CANDIDATE DEBORAH MAHUTA-COYLE; KIWIBLOG EDITOR AND NATIONAL PARTY POLLSTER DAVID FARRAR; AND FIRST UNION GENERAL SECRETARY ROBERT REID. You think we have just heard the next leader of the Labour Party, don't you? Grant Robinson is the front runner. I would give him a 70% chance of winning. Cunliffe has to fend off the idea that he has lost an election and support in the caucus. He has lost some support in the unions and party membership. Grant Robertson is talking about that is going to clean up caucus and unify the party. There is going to be blood. Deborah, you voted for grant Robertson. Is he going to get their membership support? This is one of the reasons I voted for grant last time ` I didn't think Cunliffe would unite the caucus. Grant Robertson has got depth of character that I haven't seen amongst many Labour Mps for along time. The best thing about grant, that won my vote this time, is that he genuinely cares about New Zealanders. He cares about Labour members. He listens to us. He puts other people in front of himself at all times. That's the kind of guy he is. You know What he is as well? He's accessible. He will chat away in the green room. It's genuine. Cunliffe has lacked the ability to come across and connect with New Zealanders because they don't find him genuine. Grant Robertson will ask the questions openly. He won't be scripted. He naturally as a leader. There's been conversation this week about whether it is the Labour Party all the leadership. Grant answerEd the question. He can certainly unify the Labour Party caucus. The challenge if he wins is, Can he unify the wider activist base? He has the personal skills to do that. This won't be as pleasant as the last leadership one. It's a referendum on who is to blame the leadEr or the caucus. We know the caucus doesn't want Cunliffe. Does this split the party? There is no problem with this being played out in public. Cunliffe has been taking the course that we want to have this as a public referendum. We don't want it just to be a bit like selecting a Pope. I hate to agree with David. Robertson will win the vote in the caucus. In the last few days of the election campaign, and South Auckland, you would have thought that we had the next prime Minister of New Zealand, David Cunliffe, and the most popular man in New Zealand at all of the meetings. There is a huge tale of two cities. The other part is the Pacific island caucus and the Maori caucus, although not unanimously, but solidly behind David Cunliffe. A deep inhale of breath there from Deborah. That's a big call to make. It's not a wise move to make. We are so closed off from what New Zealanders want from our party that we are believing our own hype. You are the only party member here. You are talking as if you have some kind of insight into my party. Workers need to have a strong Labour Party because workers are suffering so much. There is the left-wing view and the right wing view within Labour. You are the Robertson; you are the Cunliffe. We will see heated debate over the next few months. Deborah would agree with me. It's not a matter of left and right. It's a matter of different constituencies and different people. It's not a complete left right split.� Grant Robertson has probably got more left-wing views than David Cunliffe. The notion that grant Robertson is the right wing candidate, grant would take issue with. Unions you are not affiliated. Where are the unions going this time? The same process they did last time. There is a democratic process with than those affiliated unions, the EPMU and the service workers union. The mass of the membership voted complete the opposite to the leadership last time. The statement Cunliffe couldn't rely on votes is quite true, but no candidate can rely on those votes. It is a democratic process in those unions. Only one union of the six let the members vote. EPMU, only 35 delegates voted. 35 delegates around as half to a third as powerful as a caucus member. It's theIr conference. They have that right. If David Cunliffe was returned, we know caucus don't want him. David Cunliffe has done exactly the right thing in resigning. Is good for Labour to have this contest, and it will be bloody but probably more meaningful than the last contest. This time will be completely different. If David Cunliffe gets back on, he will demand the old ABCD guard go. There'll be resignations. I was talking to grant Robertson, and he said it would be over by Christmas. It depends on who wins. If Cunliffe is returned as the leader, he is going to have to clean out the caucus. He will have to let people go. That is a real pity. What about David Shearer? He is a possibility because he holds a grudge against David Cunliffe and grant Robertson. Does he want to go through again? I can't see that he can win. He won't get the support of the membership. He is not a starter. MAHUTA-COYLE: He won't enjoy much of the support of the party. I feel that both of the candidates are going to avoid putting forward` FARRAR: they can nominate. It will be death for his ticket. The deputy is for two opposite reasons. You someone who you know will be solid behind you, and I think that would depend on what plays out. Jacinda would have good skills. Who would be David Cunliffe's deputy? He is down to 5 or six supporters in caucus. KELVIN DAVIS, THE NEW LABOUR MP FOR TE TAI TOKERAU, AND ALSO JOINING ME NOW FROM WELLINGTON IS LABOUR'S NEW CHIEF WHIP, CHRIS HIPKINS. We just heard Robert Reid saying the Maori caucus is behind David Cunliffe. Is there any evidence of that? What scares me about the conversation this week is that we are putting ourselves as politicians at the centre of the issue When we should be putting people at the centre of the issue. We are talking about ourselves. That is turning people off. People vote to the left or the right. There is a whole heap of people in the middle waiting to be inspired. Would you Rather grant got a clear run and got on with doing the business? We need to put the leadership aside and focus on the people. How disappointed are you, Chris Hipkins, that David Cunliffe is now standing again and insisting on what will be a divisive run? This is a democratic process that everyone signed up to. The key message we have got to get through to everyone is that at the end of this process, someone will be the leader, and we have to make sure that we give that person the best possible chance of winning the next election. The caucus has no support for him. There are a variety of reasons why Labour didn't do well. 24% isn't good enough. Leadership is only one of the issues at play we will run this thing through public until Christmas. It's a lose lose, isn't it? We know caucus doesn't want David Cunliffe; the membership only won't vote for Grant Robertson. Nobody has voted yet. People vote based upon the case as they get presented. Let hear arguments from people who want to be leader. And then vote based upon that But not Prejudge that process. David Cunliffe did not resonate with voters. What can he do to start connecting? I won't comment on any particular leadership candidate. The challenge for the whole party is to reconnect with people. This is no doubt David Cunliffe grant Robertson or me or Kelvin. We had grant Robertson this morning saying, 'I'm a person who can unify the Labour Party.' This is about leadership clearly people aren't identifying with the Labour Party. Leader she was one factor, but there will be others as well. The Labour Party has been sliding in the polls since 2004. We have had for leaders in that time. Look at John Key, team key. We have had four. A good leader, but also a disciplined message from the national party. Is not just about the leadership but about the message, how we communicate, having a communication with the whole of New Zealand. Do you want to be deputy leader, Kelvin Davis? We need to determine the characteristics that we want in a leader, and in who ever puts their hand up, we will assess than against those attributes. Has anyone successfully lead an organisation? ARE they good with people? But you have done those things. I have only been in Parliament for three years and 5 min. I've got a lot to learn. My focus is solely on Te Tai Tokerau. I've to prove myself to those people. You have a few years to do that. We heard this morning that your supporters are tired. I'm sure the coffers a pretty empty. Who pays? The party will pay. We have been through this process before. I'm sure we can AdMinister the process again without a difficulty. The panel has just written off David Shearer. I'm sure people are going to want to go and talk to one another and contemplate their options. At the end of it, we're to make sure that the person that comes out of this is someone who believe the Labour Party to victory in 2017. We must conduct this process in a way that ensures the party can move forward. That was the whole point of it last year. THAT just didn't work. The caucus accepted the result and packed down behind David Cunliffe. That clearly wasn't enough. We must look at the reasons why we didn't connect with New Zealanders. Are you telling me there is the chance you will support David Cunliffe? I'm not telling anyone how I will cast my vote. I'm not telling anyone either. But we all got in behind the leader. Whoever wins, we will get in behind them. Is there a danger of this, of some split within Labour? I don't. This is a democratic process. Let's get used to the idea that in a Democratic run-off, someone is going to win and someone is going to you lose. If your guy doesn't win, you have to get in behind the other one. UP NEXT ` THE PANEL WILL EXPLORE THE WIDER ISSUES AROUND LABOUR'S WOES. AND LATER, POLITICAL HISTORY FROM 1993. WHAT WAS THE SECRET LAW AND ORDER AGENDA LABOUR WAS ACCUSING THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT OF? AND WE HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF, ON A BROAD BASIS, PRIVATISING THE POLICE IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM. I DON'T KNOW WHO ADVISES HIM. WE'RE BACK WITH THE PANEL. WE JUST HEARD FROM CHRIS HIPKINS. They just about fell off the couch. What did you make of that? It is very much about democratic process, it will be very public and it will go on for some time. There is so much that has been depressed in the Labour Party that you have to actually be able to bring them out. Over the past six years, everyone has wanted to sweep things under the carpet. Let's have a better about ideas. We can have a definitive decision on where Labour is going. You are giving him a look. The thing is that we are talking about leadership. They have real problems within the party structure. It is going to be messy and not a good way. Some people feel that the culture of Labour is wrong. If I hold a different opinion and I voice that issue, I will get attacked and I will get slaughtered on social media, You will criticise your own party. This is a discipline that Labour is lacking. I would call myself original Labour. I am not light blue or light grey. When I criticise my party, it is because I want them to improve. Not in the middle of the campaign. You were seeing the divisions within Labour. Because I criticised the party. David Cunliffe has made his announcement that he is going to contest the leadership. I got a text message from a national party person and they said they do not believe they can be unity in the Labour Party. They have to purge their opponents and they have to take over the leadership of the administration. It is messy but you can't carry on. What about the party? Moira Coatsworth will go. There is a lot of work there. Labour have to look back to what national did in 2002. They had a thorough and independent review lead by Stephen Joyce. It led to organisational change with the national and made national much stronger. They came back and almost double the result in the next election. I think the future is being divided by those who want the more social and liberal, and those that want the more economic, class based. Deborah Mahuta-Coyle: You can't walk out of the room and all United's Labour. That is not where the party is. A review that I read. Labour is still trying to sell cloth caps. It is wonderful throwaway lines, but I still come backto the point about the different constituencies that Labour have. The successful candidate is going to be the one that can reach out and connect to our various range of constituencies. The people of South Auckland, David Cunliffe is the hero. Possibly the people in Wellington central, grant Robertson is the hero. They are very distinct groups. There is look truly hundreds of thousands of workers in South and West Auckland who cannot make ends meet and who are looking for a party and someone who can actually help them, and I like the comments that someone made yesterday. Help them towards prosperity. Talk to those people and connect with those people. There is no doubt there are issues. National one this last election because they focused on the economy. I think both candidates are going to pose as the person of traditional Labour ` economic issues and stay away from identity politics and social liberalism. I think he can position himself as the person who will connect to broader New Zealand and widening the party out. It is going to be a whole other issue in terms of paying for it. The coffers will be pretty empty at this point. It does cost a lot to run these things. I would rather be saving for 2017. You need to get a president who can get into the boardroom and get some donations. I want to give you a free toss. John key made an open letter to New Zealanders. He listens to what people are saying. He might not come up with the same solution is the parties of the left, but he listens to them. He does the exact opposite. This is a two track thing. You are the brilliant part of one of the tracks. John key is a brilliant part of one of it. Labour are going to have to deal with the media which still calls what they are doing a circus rather than treating what they are doing is serious. Labour are going to have to control it. We could talk all day. STILL TO COME ` LABOUR PARTY'S DAVID SHEARER LIVE FROM NEW YORK ALSO ADVICE ON HOW TO TURN AROUND LABOUR'S DISASTROUS ELECTION RESULT. What do Labour need? They need a hell of a lot. It has been eight days since Labour's drubbing. SO WE ASKED SOME POLITICALLY ENGAGED PEOPLE WHAT THEY THOUGHT THE LABOUR PARTY COULD DO, SHOULD DO, RIGHT NOW TO ARREST A FURTHER SLIDE IN THE POLLS. DITA DE BONI WITH THIS. # OH DEAR, WHAT CAN THE MATTER BE? # DEAR, DEAR, WHAT CAN THE MATTER BE? # WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS THAT YOU'VE GOT THE ALL BLACK FANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY VOTING FOR WHO THEY PUT IN AS THE CAPTAIN. YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT. I THINK THE PROBLEM WITH ORGANISATIONS AND PEOPLE AND BUSINESSES AT TIMES IS THAT THEY DEFINE THEMSELVES BY WHAT THEY DO, RATHER THAN WHY THEY'RE HERE. AND THAT'S THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH LABOUR AT THE MOMENT ` THEIR DEFINITION OF 'WHY'. LABOUR'S MAIN PROBLEM IS A LACK OF UNITY, AND THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT DESTROYS THEM, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT QUITE SURE WHAT LABOUR ACTUALLY STANDS FOR. LABOUR ACTUALLY LOST, FROM MY CALCULATIONS, ABOUT 190,000 VOTES BETWEEN THE CANDIDATE AND THE PARTY, AND, TO ME, THAT SIGNALS A SIGNIFICANT DISCONNECT. RED SHOULD GO. I THINK RED SHOULD GO, AND MAYBE EVEN LABOUR SHOULD HAVE A NEW NAME. SIR BOB HARVEY WAS, HISTORICALLY, THE MAN BEHIND THE LABOUR BRAND, HELPING BRING LABOUR TO POWER IN THE KIRK, LANGE AND CLARK YEARS. HE SAYS THE LABOUR BRAND IS POISON. CAN YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT? > IT'S DATED. IT'S SIMPLY DATED, AND THE WORLD HAS CHANGED. THE WORLD HAS MOVED TO THE CENTRE. I WANT TO GET RID OF LEFT. I THINK THE PARADIGM SHIFT OF GETTING RID OF THE WORD LEFT, 'WE'RE ON THE LEFT'. MOST AGREE, AT THE LEAST, LABOUR DIDN'T ARTICULATE ITS PURPOSE AND MESSAGE PROPERLY. EVEN SIMPLY THE CAPITAL GAINS TAX, FOR EXAMPLE. AND I'M IN FAVOUR OF A CAPITAL GAINS TAX, BUT THERE WASN'T A MESSAGE OUT THERE AS TO WHY WE NEEDED A CAPITAL GAINS TAX. AND I'M AN ECONOMIST. I COULD GIVE YOU A HUGE EXPLANATION, BUT THAT'S NOT THE EXPLANATION YOU NEED. WE'RE LOOKING FOR A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE. WE'RE LOOKING FOR GOOD EMPLOYMENT. WE'RE LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR YOUTH. THOSE ARE ALL 'WHYS' THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT THEY CAN CLAIM. TO WHAT EXTENT DID LEADERSHIP PLAY A ROLE? IF YOU TALK TO A NATIONAL MP, IT'S QUITE EXTRAORDINARY. THEY'RE RIGHT BEHIND JOHN KEY. IT'S TEAM KEY. IT'S NOT JUST A LABEL; THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT. I THINK THAT LEADER HAS TO HAVE AN ELEMENT OF CHARISMA, HAS TO BE ARTICULATE, AND I THINK DAVID CUNLIFFE HAS THOSE POINTS, AS DO SOME OF THE OTHER CONTENDERS, I GUESS, WITHIN LABOUR. WHATEVER THE GENERAL RESULT FOR LABOUR, THE PARTY DID FIND SOME SUCCESS, TAKING BACK ALMOST ALL THE MAORI SEATS. THIS IS A REAL SWING BACK. IT IS A HUGE WIN, IN FACT, FOR THE LABOUR PARTY, SO THEN THEY HAVE TO SHOW FAITH IN` SO THEN THEY HAVE TO SHOW RESPECT FOR THE FAITH THAT MAORI HAVE PLACED IN THEM. SO HOW CAN LABOUR CAPITALISE ON THAT SUCCESS WITH MAORI? AND THEY REALLY NEED STRONG PERFORMANCES FROM THEIR MAORI ELECTORATE MPS, SO THOSE MPS IN THOSE SEATS NEED TO REMIND US ALL THE TIME THAT THEY ARE HERE; THEY'RE WORKING FOR MAORI. WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THEM AS BACK-BENCHERS WHO DON'T TURN UP MUCH. THIS IS THE TIME TO SHOW, 'OK, WE REALLY ARE HERE FOR YOU, AND WE'LL GET THINGS DONE.' AND KELVIN DAVIS IS ONE WHO IS GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE THAT ON BOARD AND SHOW` HONE HAS BEEN A WORKHORSE IN LOTS OF WAYS IN THE NORTH, SO WHAT IS HE GOING TO DO? THE PARTY FACES SOME BIG QUESTIONS ABOUT WHERE IT GOES FROM HERE. WHAT THEY REALLY NEED TO DO IS TURN AROUND, LIKE ANY BUSINESS, LIKE ANY ORGANISATION, TURN AROUND AND LOOK AT THE CUSTOMERS, LOOK AT WHAT THEY WANT, BECAUSE THEY'RE INTERNALLY FOCUSED, WHERE THEY ACTUALLY HAVE GOTTA TURN AROUND AND BE EXTERNALLY FOCUSED. I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR A NEW LEADER, YEAH. I THINK THAT DAVID'S HAD A CHANCE, AND IT HASN'T WORKED. BUT NOT EVERYONE THINKS LEADERSHIP IS THE FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS. BEFORE I WENT APPOINTING A LEADER, I THINK I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT I NEED TO REVIEW THE 'WHY I'M HERE'; I NEED TO REPACKAGE UP WHAT I'M GOING TO TAKE TO THE PEOPLE OF NZ; I NEED TO REARTICULATE. SO LET ME DO THAT FIRST SO THAT THEN I'VE GOT A FIT-FOR-PURPOSE LEADER. THE RESULTS ON SATURDAY MEAN THAT THEY NEED TO SERIOUSLY LOOK AT REBRANDING, RE-ENERGISING AND REVITALISING WHAT WAS THE NZ LABOUR PARTY. I THINK IF WE JUST GO BACK A BIT, HELEN CLARK, MICHAEL CULLEN, I MEAN, THEY HAD IT IN ONE. THEY WERE ABLE TO KEEP THE CENTRE WITH THEM FOR A LONG TIME, AND THERE'S NO REASON WHY LABOUR SHOULDN'T DO IT AGAIN, BUT THEY DO HAVE TO ASSERT AN AWFUL LOT OF DISCIPLINE. LIGHT GUITAR MUSIC The third name being bandied around is David Shearer. He has been in the UN this week with Murray McCully. He is with Rachel Smalley. Thank you for joining us. We will get to the issue of is the Islamic state. WIll you contest the leadership? We need to go through a process of review. At the end of it, we need to look at and leadership. Not before. It pains me to look at over the Internet and see what is happening at the moment. The conservative party in the UK in the mid-2000 is was Michael Howard. They lost. SPENT a few months making the reforms, and then they looked at the leadership. That is why I am not going to speak about the leadership this morning. That's it, you are pained at what you are saying. Are you disappointed that grant Robertson has put his name forward already? No, not at all. I feel there is a process we need to go first. We need to go through what happened at this election and who voted for us and what the issues were. We have immediately jumped right over the top of that and gone straight to leadership and immediately it has become a fractioned issue. It should not be that. Kelvin Davis says that the whole thing is distracting at the moment. It is a major issue. We all know that. Look at the different opinions that we have about what happened in this election. Let us get some analysis down and think it through coolly and carefully about where we need to go and what steps we need to take. And then go to the leadership and not before. Kelvin is absolutely right. It is leading to be about what New Zealanders saw in �the Labour Party that they did not like. What you think people didn't see or didn't like about Labour in this election? I think there was a whole host of things. We need to go through them. If we are going forward, we have to understand that we have to appeal to everybody in New Zealand And that means having a broad party. We had a broad party and Helen Clark. Admittedly some of the part of the left were part of the Alliance. Labour was able to hold across the spectrum. John key is able to do that. He is in power. He is holding the reins of power. In a few weeks time when they put some unsavoury Labour law through and some legislation around the environment, we won't be to do anything about it. They have understood that and we need to be able to understand that as well. If David Cunliffe, does succeed, could you unify behind him. What I don't want to do is talk about who was going to be leader in the various attributes. I was really emphatic. It is still my very firm belief that we are going about this the wrong way. We need to understand what happened before we get started going down the route of leadership. I have not been focusing on the process. It could be sometime down the road. This has allowed time to happen, rather than moving forward now. This us talk about the Islamic state. From your experience of working in hostile environments and terrorist groups and extremism, how does the Islamic state compare? I think they are worse than Al Qaeda. They are more brutal. They violate human rights too much greater extent in they have territorial ambitions, which Al Qaeda did not have to the same extent. They are extremely worrying and here at the UN, every speaker almost without exception, talked about them in the threat that they posed. It is not like the Cold War where there is the possibility of nuclear annihilation, but it certainly is something that is spreading its tentacles across the world and we have got to be really careful. As New Zealand vulnerable. I think we would not be immune.� We do need to be vigilant. We have two understand what is actually going on in the world and make sure that we look after ourselves as well and contribute to the rest of the world too. Because of our strengths and relationship with America, is it feasible that New Zealand could have some form of of meant in trying to manage or quell the rise of the Islamic state? I don't think it is feasible for New Zealand. We are providing humanitarian assistance for the people who have been displaced in the North of Iraq. We should continue to do that. American conducting air operations on ISIS in Iraq because the Iraqis have asked them to do that. There is much less agreement about going into Syria. Syria is not a sovereign state at the moment under one control. I think we have a humanitarian agenda, but I don't believe we have any form of military role in the future. I don't think that would help. The logistics in the type of weaponry that would be useful, we do not have. So what should be just about the humanitarian level? I think we can do some good things. And we have done some good things on the ground, from what I understand. Speaking with the Iraqi Foreign Minister, they are obviously very concerned about what is going on, and they are very concerned about what is going on in the rest of the country in terms of normal diplomatic relations. That's what I want to get on with. We can play a very positive role, but I don't believe that role is military. As I say, the discussion around how that military involvement goes forward is very fraught at the moment between member states. Thank you, David Shearer. STILL TO COME ` MORE FROM OUR PANEL, AND WE TAKE A LOOK BACK AT WHAT WAS MAKING POLITICAL NEWS THIS WEEK IN 1993 AS TWO OLD CAMPAIGNERS, RICHARD PREBBLE AND JOHN BANKS, WENT HEAD-TO-HEAD. IN THREE YEARS' TIME, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO RING UP AND SAY, 'I DON'T THINK WE'VE GOT ENOUGH POLICE PROTECTION IN OUR STREET,' AND THE POLICE WILL SAY, 'WELL, WE'LL QUOTE YOU A PRICE.' AND WE HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF, ON A BROAD BASIS, PRIVATISING THE POLICE IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM. I DON'T KNOW WHO ADVISES HIM. WELCOME BACK. Coming up this week, we have barely talked about National. We will go to And talk about the shape of the government. The specials will make a difference. I am not sure they will necessarily wait for the specials some other changes? There are three vacancies at the moment. At least three new ministers. Chris Finlayson, health is a tough one. What are you picking? I think that national is a boring government. We are going to be talking about Labour. It is going to be a pretty lacklustre government. We should be talking about what to national doing. They are the ones with the power. We have already seen one at seven brought by the government. Giving that ACT candidate from get some an associate position. This is the worst rort we have seen. Voters from its voted for him. They are intelligent people, I assume. They wanted to vote that way. John key came out this week to say that he did not want to get arrogant. What I don't think you are going to see a suddenly national saying they are going to sell a few more power companies. I think it is going to be keeping faith with the public about you get what you voted for. After next Saturday, we are going to hear from Hone Harawira. He has said that he will not speak until he hears from the special vote. But it is unlikely. Paula Bennett, are they going to broaden out her experience? She would be a very good candidate for health Minister. Maybe ACC, another associate finance. She is deadly one of the rising stars. Bill English maybe in his last term. He has become a list MP. So Bennett could be the deputy before too long? Her star is on the rise. She could take over from Key on the next term of national. How much carnage is Judith Collins going to cause? He sets expectations, John key. He is quite clear to them. He is tough. We will get the details of the Labour enquiry. Thank you, panel. LET'S LOOK BACK AT WHAT WAS MAKING POLITICAL NEWS THIS WEEK IN 1993. LABOUR CLAIMED THE GOVERNMENT HAD A SECRET AGENDA FOR LAW AND ORDER TO CUT POLICE NUMBERS, CHARGE FOR SOME POLICE SERVICES AND CONTRACT OUT OTHERS. IN THREE YEARS' TIME, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO RING UP AND SAY, 'I DON'T THINK WE'VE GOT ENOUGH POLICE PROTECTION IN OUR STREET,' AND THE POLICE WILL SAY, 'WELL, WE'LL QUOTE YOU A PRICE.' THIS, LABOUR SAYS, IS NATIONAL'S SECRET LAW AND ORDER AGENDA. CERTAIN POLICE SERVICES WILL COME, THEY SAY, WITH A USER-PAYS TAG. ALREADY THERE'S BEEN PUBLIC DISCUSSION ABOUT POLICE CHARGING AIRPORT COMPANIES FOR THE SURVEILLANCE OF INTERNATIONAL ARRIVALS. A COMMITTEE OF GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS IS NOW CONSIDERING THE MATTER. BUT RICHARD PREBBLE SAYS THAT'S JUST THE BEGINNING. NOTHING PARTICULAR ABOUT AIRPORTS. YOU CAN PICK ON AN AIRPORT. WHY NOT A SHOPPING MALL? IF YOU CAN PICK ON A SHOPPING MALL, WHY NOT PICK ON A SPORTS CLUB? AND, HE SAYS, OTHER POLICE WORK WILL BE PUT OUT TO PRIVATE TENDER. HERE IN WELLINGTON, THEY'RE ABOUT TO START A PILOT SCHEME. INSTEAD OF POLICE ESCORTING PRISONERS TO COURT, THE JOB WILL BE DONE BY PRIVATE SECURITY GUARDS. POLICE MINISTER JOHN BANKS SCOFFED AT LABOUR'S CLAIMS TODAY. AND WE HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF, ON A BROAD BASIS, PRIVATISING THE POLICE IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM. I DON'T KNOW WHO ADVISES HIM. MARAE IS NEXT WITH MORE ON THE LABOUR PARTY LEADERSHIP STORY The panel is still going. WITH NANAIA MAHUTA. AND Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS, AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS. THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT 9. CAPTIONS BY FINN SCOTT-KELLY AND VIRGINIA PHILP. CAPTIONS WERE MADE POSSIBLE WITH FUNDING FROM NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2014