GOOD MORNING, AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M GREG BOYED. TODAY ` TWO BIG FARM DEALS IN THE NEWS THIS WEEK. WHERE'S THE GOVERNMENT GOING ON FOREIGN INVESTMENT? THE GOVERNMENT REJECTED ADVICE TO BLOCK THE SALE OF LOCHINVER STATION. WE ASK ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MINISTER STEVEN JOYCE IF IT SIGNALS NEW THINKING ON FOREIGN INVESTMENT. THEN ` SEXISM, LEADERSHIP AND POLITICAL AMBITION WITH JACINDA ARDERN. < DOES IT AFFECT YOU? HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH IT? YEAH, IT DOES, ACTUALLY. JACK TAME REPORTS FROM THE PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY CAMPAIGNS IN THE US. HE'S BEEN TO THE RALLIES OF THE TWO BIG ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATES ` DONALD TRUMP AND BERNIE SANDERS. WHY ARE THEY RESONATING WITH AMERICAN VOTERS? THEN SUSAN WOOD'S INTERVIEW WITH THE LAWYER WHO SUED THE BRITISH ARMY FOR SEX DISCRIMINATION, AND WON. I WAS NEVER DEBRIEFED. MY ROLE IN THE EVENT WAS NEVER ACKNOWLEDGED OR RECOGNISED. AND I WAS ORDERED NEVER TO SPEAK OF MY EXISTENCE AT THE COMPOUND ON THAT DAY. AND WE'LL ANALYSE ALL THE ISSUES WITH OUR PANEL ` NZME EDITORIAL DIRECTOR FOR BUSINESS, FRAN O'SULLIVAN; THOMAS PRYOR, GOVERNMENT RELATIONS DIRECTOR AT THE BANKERS' ASSOCIATION; AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS SPECIALIST JOSIE PAGANI. DUE TO THE LIVE NATURE OF Q+A, WE APOLOGISE FOR THE LACK OF CAPTIONS FOR SOME ITEMS. THE PROPOSED SALE OF LOCHINVER STATION NEAR TAUPO TO A CHINESE INVESTOR WAS PART OF A CONTENTIOUS DEBATE OVER FOREIGN INVESTMENT AT THE LAST ELECTION A YEAR AGO TODAY. AND IT'S TAKEN UNTIL THIS WEEK FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO MAKE ITS FINAL CALL ON THE DEAL. IT'S BEEN VETOED ` THE FIRST BIG DEAL TO BE BLOCKED SINCE 2008. CORIN DANN CAUGHT UP WITH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MINISTER STEVEN JOYCE BEFORE HE FLEW OUT ON A TRADE MISSION TO CHINA. CORIN ASKED IF MR JOYCE HAD SOME EXPLAINING TO DO TO THE CHINESE. BUT, ACTUALLY, WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD RELATIONSHIP, AND ALL SORTS OF ISSUES HAVE POPPED UP OVER THE YEARS. THIS ISN'T A BIG ONE. THIS IS JUST A TRANSACTION THAT WON'T BE GOING THROUGH. BUT IT IS ONE IN WHICH THE PROCESS TOOK 14 MONTHS. AND I'VE CERTAINLY SPOKEN WITH GARY ROMANO, FOR EXAMPLE, INVOLVED WITH SHANGHAI PENGXIN. VERY FRUSTRATED ABOUT THE TIME THIS HAS TAKEN. DOESN'T THAT SEND A PRETTY DAMAGING MESSAGE TO INVESTORS THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY COME IN TO BUY SOMETHING, IT TAKES 14 MONTHS, THE OVERSEAS INVESTMENT OFFICE APPROVES IT, AND THEN A GOVERNMENT CHANGES THE RULES AND PULLS THE RUG OUT? OH, A COUPLE OF THINGS. FIRSTLY, IN TERMS OF THE TIME, WE ARE AWARE THAT SOME OF THE APPLICATIONS HAVE TAKEN A LITTLE BIT TOO LONG. I'M NOT NECESSARILY SAYING THIS ONE, BECAUSE I'LL COME BACK TO THAT IN A MINUTE. SO WE ARE DOING SOME WORK ON SPEEDING IT UP ` MORE RESOURCES FOR THE OFFICE AND SO ON, WHICH IS BEING TALKED ABOUT. IN THIS PARTICULAR TRANSACTION, IT WAS QUITE COMPLEX, I UNDERSTAND, BECAUSE THE OWNERSHIP OF THE PURCHASER AND THE WAYS WHICH COMPANIES WERE INVOLVED IS ACTUALLY QUITE A COMPLEX ARRANGEMENT, AND THERE WAS QUITE A LOT OF REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION GOING BACK TO THE PURCHASER AS WELL. SO I CAN UNDERSTAND GARY'S FRUSTRATION, BUT IT'S ALSO A TWO-WAY STREET. AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THERE WAS SOME EXTRA INFORMATION REQUIRED THAT TOOK A BIT OF TIME TO TURN UP. MORE BROADLY, I THINK WE WOULD LIKE TO GET THE PROCESS THROUGH QUICKLY AND GET MORE TO YES AND NO ON A MORE RAPID BASIS FOR ALL TRANSACTIONS, BUT WE CAN'T DO IT FOR ALL OF THEM BECAUSE SOME OF THEM ARE MORE COMPLEX, BUT WE ARE LOOKING, AS I SAID, AT WAYS WE CAN DO THAT. WOULD YOU, GIVEN YOUR POSITION, YOUR UNIQUE POSITION OF SORT OF, I GUESS, WAVING THE FLAG FOR NZ, TRYING TO ATTRACT INVESTMENT, DID YOU WANT THIS DEAL TO GO THROUGH? NO, I JUST WANT THE DEALS TO BE ASSESSED AGAINST THE RULES, AND THAT IT'S A STRAIGHTFORWARD PROCESS THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND. I ACTUALLY THINK OVERALL IT IS. AND, LOOK, THESE GUYS THAT DIDN'T GET THIS ONE THROUGH, THEY WILL BE DISAPPOINTED, THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT, BUT, ACTUALLY, A LOT DO GET THROUGH, AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE AN INVESTMENT TEST AROUND SENSITIVE LAND, THEN YOU AREN'T GOING TO GET THEM ALL THROUGH. BUT, I MEAN, COMING BACK TO` YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT TRYING TO BUILD UP A PIPELINE OF FOREIGN INVESTMENT, YET MARK FRANKLIN, THE CEO OF STEVENSON GROUP, SAID IT QUITE WELL IN HIS STATEMENT, THIS CREATES UNCERTAINTY ` ECONOMIC RAMIFICATIONS FOR NZ. I MEAN, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO ATTRACT THAT INVESTMENT WHEN YOU'VE GOT THAT MESSAGE? RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY, THAT'S HOW IT WILL BE PERCEIVED. I THINK, AGAIN, THAT'S MARK'S VIEW, AND I UNDERSTAND HIS VIEW BECAUSE HE'S A BIT SORE BECAUSE THE TRANSACTION DIDN'T GO THROUGH, BUT, ACTUALLY, MORE BROADLY, THERE'S A LOT OF TRANSACTIONS THAT DO GO THROUGH, AND LAND ISN'T THE ONLY STORY. IN FACT, IT'S NOT EVEN THE BIGGER PART OF THE STORY IN TERMS OF GROWING EXPORTS AND GROWING INVESTMENT IN THE EXPORT SECTOR. IT'S MUCH MORE ABOUT PRODUCTION, MARKETING AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. WE SAW ANOTHER TRANSACTION PROPOSED LAST WEEK WHICH WILL BE UP TO THE SHAREHOLDERS OF SILVER FERN FARMS, BUT IT COULD WELL BE QUITE A BIG, SIGNIFICANT LIFT FOR THAT INDUSTRY. WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF INVESTMENT IN OTHER INDUSTRIES, SO THE FOOD INDUSTRY ` A PHILIPPINE COMPANY HAS JUST PICKED UP GRIFFIN'S, GOODMAN FIELDER WATTIE'S HAS JUST BEEN PICKED UP BY ANOTHER PHILIPPINES COMPANY ` AND WE'VE GOT A LOT OF INVESTMENT COMING INTO THE SMALLER END TOO. YOU SEE, THAT'S INTERESTING, THOUGH, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL HEAR THAT, AND THEY'RE HEARING HOUSEHOLD BRANDS NZ HOUSEHOLD BRANDS FALLING INTO OFFSHORE HANDS, I MEAN, LOSING OUR MEANS OF PRODUCTION. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE ARGUMENT BOTH WAYS, CORIN. WELL, I'M THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE. BUT IN TERMS OF GRIFFIN'S, I THINK IT'S A FANTASTIC OPPORTUNITY, SO THIS COMPANY, A FILIPINO COMPANY, IS JUST THRILLED. I WAS ACTUALLY IN THE PHILIPPINES SHORTLY AFTER THEY'D MADE THE PURCHASE. THEY BOUGHT IT FROM A PRIVATE EQUITY GROUP, AND THEY ARE JUST THRILLED TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE INVOLVED WITH WHAT THEY SEE AS AN ICONIC NZ BRAND, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE EXPANDED AND EXPORTED INTO SOUTH-EAST ASIA, WHICH MEANS MORE INVESTMENT AND MORE JOBS FOR KIWIS. SO ON THE WHOLE, INTERNATIONAL INVESTMENT IS GOOD FOR GROWING OUR EXPORTS, FRANKLY, GROWING JOBS AND INCOMES IN NZ, AND WE SEE PLENTY OF EXAMPLES OF THAT ` KING SALMON, THE WINE INDUSTRY. SURE. YOU KNOW, NEW ZEALAND HAS BEEN BUILT ON FOREIGN INVESTMENT INTO OUR FOOD INDUSTRY AND OTHER INDUSTRIES. OK, WE HAVE TO BE CHOOSY, THOUGH, SO LET'S TALK ABOUT SILVER FERN FARMS. SURE. DO YOU LIKE THIS DEAL? DO YOU THINK IT IS GOOD FOR NZ? WELL, I'VE GOT TO BE A LITTLE BIT CAREFUL BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF THE DEAL, AND I TRULY BELIEVE THIS IS A DECISION FOR THE SHAREHOLDERS OF SILVER FERN FARMS, PREDOMINANTLY BECAUSE THEY'LL HAVE IT ALL LAID OUT BEFORE THEM, THEY'LL HAVE THE MEETINGS ON IT, AND THEY'LL GET TO MAKE DECISIONS. AND WHAT THEY WILL BE ASSESSING IS WHETHER, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ADDITIONAL CAPITAL THAT COMES INTO THE COMPANY AND THE DISTRIBUTION CHANNELS THAT THIS CHINESE COMPANY BRING TO THE TABLE WILL CREATE MORE VALUE FOR THE FARMERS, BOTH IN TERMS OF DIVIDENDS AND IN TERMS OF THE PAYMENTS THEY GET FOR THEIR STOCK. AND THEY'LL BE THE BEST PLACED TO ASSESS THAT, AND ANY POLITICIAN, WHETHER IT'S WINSTON PETERS OR I, SHOULDN'T BE PUTTING OURSELVES FROM THE SIDELINES INTO THAT. BUT IN TERMS OF YOUR PIPELINE MESSAGE OF TRYING TO STACK UP A PIPELINE OF FOREIGN DIRECT INVESTMENT INTO NZ, IS THIS THE TYPE OF THING ` JOINT VENTURES ` THAT YOU WANT TO SEE MORE OF? ABSOLUTELY. WE WILL SEE A RANGE OF THESE. WE HAVE A PROGRAMME WHERE WE'RE SEEKING TO ATTRACT INVESTMENT, NOT JUST INTERNATIONAL INVESTMENT BUT DOMESTIC INVESTMENT AS WELL INTO OUR PRODUCTIVE COMPANIES AND THE FOOD INDUSTRY AND ICT AND HIGH-TECH MANUFACTURING. THAT WILL CONTINUE TO GO ON, AND THE MORE INVESTMENT THESE COMPANIES ATTRACT, THEN THE MORE ABILITY THEY HAVE TO GET OUT THERE AND COMPETE AND WIN ON THE WORLD STAGE. ISN'T THERE SOME RISKS, THOUGH? I MEAN, SOME WILL ARGUE THAT THE SILVER FERNS CASE IS A CASE OF A DISTRESSED COMPANY THAT HAD TOO MUCH DEBT AND IS NOW EFFECTIVELY GIVING AWAY DECADES ` DECADES OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND MEAT-PROCESSING CAPABILITY TO THE CHINESE, WHICH PRESUMABLY THEY FEEL THAT THEY'RE GETTING A GOOD DEAL? BUT THAT IS A MATTER FOR THE SHAREHOLDERS OF THAT COMPANY. BUT ISN'T THAT A MATTER FOR THE COUNTRY AS WELL? WELL, NO, NOT NECESSARILY. I MEAN, WE HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, ANSCO. ANSCO HAS BEEN A VERY SUCCESSFUL MEAT-PROCESSOR COMPANY, I GRANT YOU, BUT IT'S BEEN MAJORITY OWNED BY JAPANESE INTERESTS FOREVER, MORE OR LESS FOR 20 YEARS, AND YET LOTS OF FARMERS SUPPLY THAT AND THEY'RE VERY HAPPY WITH THE RELATIONSHIP THAT THEY HAVE WITH ANSCO BECAUSE IT DELIVERS THE SORT OF RETURNS THAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR FROM THEIR PART OF THE MEAT INDUSTRY. SO THE BEST PEOPLE TO ASSESS THAT IS THE INDUSTRY ITSELF BECAUSE THEY KNOW OF THE DYNAMICS OF THE INDUSTRY. MANY OF THEM WILL KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT THERE'S BEEN CHALLENGES IN THE MEAT-PROCESSING INDUSTRY FOR SOME TIME. THIS IS ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION. WE SHOULD LET THAT INDUSTRY GET ON. IT COULD ACTUALLY BE A GREAT THING FOR THE INDUSTRY, BUT THAT'S FOR THEM TO ASSESS. PUTTING YOUR ELECTION STRATEGIST HAT ON AS WELL, IS THERE A POINT WHERE YOU IN GOVERNMENT, YOU SIT WITH JOHN KEY AND BILL ENGLISH AND YOU SAY, 'IT'S GETTING A BIT TOO MUCH HERE. NZ VOTERS ARE UNCOMFORTABLE'? YOU MUST THINK ABOUT THOSE ISSUES. WELL, THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF A TURNAROUND ON THE START OF THE INTERVIEW WHERE YOU WERE BEING CRITICAL ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR TRANSACTION THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER NOT GOING AHEAD. BUT, LOOK, THE THING IS THIS ` NZERS ULTIMATELY WANT TO SEE JOBS AND INCOMES FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES AND THEIR KIDS IN NZ. AND THERE'LL BE LOTS OF GROWTH IN THE WORLD OVER THE NEXT 20 OR 30 YEARS, AND THE ONLY QUESTION IS WHERE IT IS. IT'S SORT OF LIKE A GEOGRAPHIC PLAY. WE CAN HAVE MORE INVESTMENT IN THIS COUNTRY OR SOME OF THAT INVESTMENT COULD INSTEAD BE IN AUSTRALIA OR IN SINGAPORE OR IN JAKARTA OR WHEREVER. SO IF WE WELCOME THAT INVESTMENT, IF WE ATTRACT IT, WE BRING IT HERE, THAT MEANS MORE JOBS, HIGHER INCOMES, CAPITAL INVESTED IN OUR COMPANIES. AND I THINK AS LONG AS NZERS SEE THAT AND UNDERSTAND THAT AND CAN SEE THAT IT WORKS FOR NZ, THEY'LL BE IN FAVOUR OF IT BECAUSE ULTIMATELY WHAT THEY'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR IS FOR THE CHANCE FOR THEIR KIDS TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND GROW UP AND BRING UP THEIR OWN FAMILIES IN THIS COUNTRY. AND WE'RE SEEING THAT WITH THE SHIFT IN MIGRATION BACK TO NZ THAT PEOPLE SEE THAT FUTURE. WELL, THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT, THAT MIGRATION, BECAUSE WE'VE HAD GROWTH FIGURES OUT THIS WEEK ` 0.4%. THE ECONOMY'S GROWING; I'LL GIVE YOU THAT. YEAH. NOT AS FAST AS WE'D LIKE, BUT, YEAH. BUT SOME WOULD ARGUE, THOUGH, IT'S NOT AS FAST WHEN YOU START TO THINK ABOUT POPULATION GROWTH, AND, OF COURSE, MIGRATION IS A FACTOR. SURE. NOW, BILL ENGLISH THIS WEEK ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THAT MIGRATION, THAT STRONG MIGRATION IS KEEPING WAGES DOWN A BIT. ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, GIVEN UNEMPLOYMENT IS FORECAST TO GO OVER 6%? WELL, UNEMPLOYMENT IS ALREADY CLOSE TO 6%, SO I DON'T THINK` IT'S 5.9, SO STATISTICALLY IT COULD EASILY TICK UP JUST OVER THE SIX, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT THE RESERVE BANK IS SUGGESTING. LOOK, I THINK THE KEY THING WITH MIGRATION IS TO BE ATTRACTING THE SORT OF MIGRANTS WHICH HELP NZ COMPANIES GROW. SO YOU HEAR THE OPPOSITION SAYING, 'OH, WE SHOULD CRACK DOWN ON MIGRATION,' BUT, ACTUALLY, YOU TALK TO THE ICT COMPANIES, ONE OF OUR FASTEST-GROWING INDUSTRIES, AND THEY ARE VERY KEEN TO KEEP ATTRACTING SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS. WE GROW OUR OWN IN THIS COUNTRY AS WELL, BUT THE RATE AT WHICH THIS INDUSTRY IS GROWING, ADDING 3000 HIGH-PAYING JOBS A YEAR, IT NEEDS TO BRING IN PEOPLE FROM OFFSHORE. BUT IS THAT`? THE SOUTH ISLAND IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE, WHERE NORTH ISLANDERS FOR WHATEVER REASON DON'T WANT TO SHIFT SOUTH AND YET THERE'S BEEN A BIG DIFFERENTIAL OF JOBS IN THE SOUTH ISLAND. AND YOU CAN'T SAY TO THE SOUTH ISLANDERS, 'LOOK, YOU GUYS CAN'T GROW, BECAUSE NORTH ISLANDERS WON'T SHIFT DOWN THERE, BUT WE CAN'T ALLOW YOU BRING ANY MIGRANTS IN EITHER.' SEND US YOUR THOUGHTS. WE'RE ON TWITTER... YOU CAN EMAIL US... OR TEXT YOUR THOUGHTS AND FIRST NAME TO 2211. KEEP THEM BRIEF. EACH TEXT COSTS 50 CENTS. WE'LL BRING IN OUR PANEL AFTER THE BREAK. AND COMING UP LATER ` JACINDA ARDERN FOR PRIME MINISTER? WHAT THE POPULAR MP THINKS ABOUT HER RISE IN THE PREFERRED PRIME MINISTER POLLS. LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL ` LABOUR PARTY MEMBER AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS SPECIALIST JOSIE PAGANI; THOMAS PRYOR, GOVERNMENT RELATIONS DIRECTOR AT THE BANKERS' ASSOCIATION; AND FORMER POLITICAL STAFFER AND NZME EDITORIAL DIRECTOR FOR BUSINESS, FRAN O'SULLIVAN. Has the government got this wrong? . It has their context deal for the government. What is interesting is the time it has taken. If it came down to what Paula Bennett said this week ` jobs, they could have been dealt with last year. This week to the ministers in May. There have been other reports and a back and forth with the company seeking more information. What is at the heart of this is not the state of reason ` jobs ` what is at the heart is aggregation of land. The government was truly shocked when one of the executives� said at a meeting that they were going to spend $1 billion on farmland in New Zealand. That ricocheted around Federated farmers. The notion that farmers would come in and got a lot land as the dairy industry faced a difficult time. It is mentioned and the decline rationale but was not given public quite. We have heard the term a pipeline of investors. Will does not put jitters investors? What gives people jitters these mixEd messages. Why was this decision made for great our farms? They responded to public opinion. The bigger issue here is the the difference between ownership and investment. Selling assets they landed not work out well for Maori 150 years later, the big iwi organisations are buying and owning stuff. in Taupo,which is a milk processing plant owned by Maori, it is where the owners live. Fonterra is in Auckland as it is owned by New Zealanders . There was a small mention about iconic New Zealand brands. We heard Stephen Joyce's reaction to griffin's. do you think he has a wrong? The company does not not do well, it will not grow. It will face an unviable financial future. You have to look to foreign investment as a potential source to help grow New Zealand companies. The level of foreign investment in New Zealand as large. What is scandalous as the level of overseas direct investment by New Zealand firms, which is negligible. We are selling out a lot of companies in a way ` give an example of silver Fern Farms ` there is no reason for instances, why land Corp could not pony up with a bunch of New Zealand investors. The Chinese could come in for 25%, not 50%. We are selling ingredients to the world's. That is the issue. We are selling knowledge as well. How much of a concern is that? There is a substantial concern ` we have great leverage we do not apply the nation. With the case of the land deal, which the Crown turned down, they could come back and do another application. They want to know it would not be scuttled on political means. I we asking for surety that when our goods gets transmitted from silver Fern Farms to China, that that we get a decent cut on that? It is not dead in the water. Shanghai Pengxin can come back. The important issue is that New Zealanders cannot see the benefits. It doesn't matter who owns the farm. If you cannot see the benefits to your community, you will not supporters. 99% of New Zealanders are not in the market to buy the farms like Lochinver station. The only two others offered less. The idea that the benefits of investment need to come down ` is there a phobia to Asian investments? That is a big thing. We have not mentioned. Without a doubt. This was a Canadian pension fund, people would celebrate. If you put in Asian sounding name in front of it, the blatant xenophobia in New Zealand builds up. There is an iconic station in the South island ` big ben. I understand that has approval. It will be interesting to see ` Colin Craig put this issue up during the election. Shanghai Pengxin built farms down Canterbury. This was politicised from the start. Shanghai Pengxin said they would make donations to the school. They might as well have promised blankets and muskets. You have to see more benefit than that. It is a $4 billion investment. It is not small-scale. Even a small percentage ` $10 million ` goes to the Taupo region people would want to hear about foreign investment. This doesn't do with a big station. It is iconic. That is the important thing. Shanghai Pengxin is completely off the table? They may or may not take it up. Stevenson's have advised a would be 30% less now then what Shanghai Pengxin would put up. Do they get the cash to go in invest in their big developments down in Drury which would make another 8000 jobs? My understanding is people are raving about the Crafar farms. Foreign investment has greatly improve the situation. The issue is we are selling ingredients to the world. We do not own the relationships to the retailers. AFTER THE BREAK ` WE'RE TALKING SUCCESS AND SEXISM WITH LABOUR MP JACINDA ARDERN. AND WE'RE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL FOR THE US PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARIES ` THE OUTLIERS WITH THE INSIDE RUNNING. WHO IN AMERICA THINKS WE'RE PREPARED TO STAND UP TO THE BILLIONAIRE CLASS AND FIGHT FOR JUSTICE? CHEERING THERE'S NO DOUBT JACINDA ARDERN IS A RISING STAR IN THE LABOUR CAUCUS. A RECENT POLL PLACED HER IN FOURTH PLACE AS VOTERS' MOST PREFERRED PRIME MINISTER - BEHIND JOHN KEY, ANDREW LITTLE AND WINSTON PETERS. BUT WHEN A RETIRED RUGBY LEAGUE COACH DESCRIBED HER AS A "PRETTY LITTLE THING" ON TV RECENTLY, SOME COMMENTATORS ZEROED IN ON WHETHER THERE WAS SUBSTANCE TO HER SURGE IN POPULARITY. KATIE BRADFORD SAT DOWN WITH MS ARDERN AND ASKED WAS SHE HITTING HER MARKS? I'D SAY THAT IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOUR MEASURES OF SUCCESS AS AN OPPOSITION MP WOULD BE. NOW, SOME COMMENTATORS CLAIM THAT SUCCESS MEANS COLLECTING POLITICAL SCALPS, OR BODIES, AS IT WERE. NOW, YES, WE NEED TO HOLD THE GOVERNMENT TO ACCOUNT. THAT'S WHY I, FOR INSTANCE, QUESTIONED ANNE TOLLEY JUST THIS WEEK ABOUT CHILD POVERTY FIGURES. BUT FOR ME, THE MEASURE OF SUCCESS IS DOING THAT ALONGSIDE CREATING ALTERNATIVE IDEAS AND POLICIES, BEING READY TO GOVERN, MAKING SURE THAT YOU'RE DOING YOUR CONSTITUENCY WORK OUT IN THE COMMUNITY, MAKING SURE THAT SECTOR KNOWS WHO YOU ARE AND THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THEIR ISSUES ARE AND THAT YOU'RE ADVOCATING FOR THEM. SO THOSE, FOR ME, ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT AS HOLDING THE GOVERNMENT TO ACCOUNT. BUT ARE PEOPLE HEARING THAT? ARE PEOPLE SEEING THAT OUT THERE? WELL, LOOK, NOT EVERYONE WATCHES PARLIAMENT TV, AND I THINK WE'RE ALL REALISTIC ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT THAT WON'T BE THE CASE. BUT I THINK PEOPLE ARE ALSO LOOKING FOR A NEW WAY OF DOING POLITICS. SO ALONGSIDE MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE GETTING THE MINISTERS ON THEIR FEET AND ANSWERING THOSE HARD QUESTIONS, MAKING SURE THAT YOU'RE ALSO TRYING TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE, AND THAT'S A REAL CHALLENGE FOR AN OPPOSITION PARTY. THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, WE DO, AS A LABOUR PARTY, SPEND A LOT OF TIME COMING UP WITH THOSE ALTERNATIVE IDEAS SO WE ARE READY TO GOVERN. AND IT DOES MEAN IT'S A NEW FORM OF POLITICS, AS IT WERE, BUT I THINK PEOPLE APPRECIATE THAT. THERE'S A LOT OF TALK IN THERE ABOUT YOU, A LOT OF PEOPLE TALK ABOUT YOU BEING A LEADER OF THE LABOUR PARTY, THE NEXT LEADER OF THE LABOUR PARTY, THE NEXT FEMALE PRIME MINISTER. DO YOU WANT TO BE THAT PERSON? NO. NO, AND I'VE ALWAYS MADE THAT REALLY CLEAR. FOR SOME REASON, IN POLITICS, EVERYONE MAKES AN ASSUMPTION THAT IF YOU'RE IN THE GAME, THEN YOU MUST HAVE AN ASPIRATION TO BE THE TOP DOG. THAT'S NEVER BEEN MY ASPIRATION SINCE BEING IN PARLIAMENT. I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO BE A MEMBER OF A TEAM THAT HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO GOVERN AND THE OPPORTUNITY POTENTIALLY TO BE A MINISTER, BUT I'VE NEVER FELT LIKE I NEEDED TO BE IN THAT ROLE IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I'D LIKE TO ACHIEVE IN POLITICS. SO HAVING WORKED FOR A YEAR FOR HELEN CLARK IN A JOB, I SAW WHAT IT TOOK TO DO IT, AND I ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT ANDREW LITTLE TO DO THAT JOB AS OPPOSED TO ME. BUT EVERYONE SAYS THAT. EVERYONE ASKED IF THEY WANT TO BE THE LABOUR LEADER, THEY SAY, 'OF COURSE NOT, I SUPPORT THE CURRENT LEADER.' YES, BUT I MEAN IT. WHAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE? YOU KNOW, WHY DO WE HEAR SO MUCH TALK OF THIS, THEN? WHY DO YOU THINK WE HEAR THAT? I GUESS YOU'D HAVE TO ASK THE PEOPLE THAT ASKED THE QUESTION IN THE FIRST PLACE. YOU KNOW, WHEN I SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, I ACTUALLY SAY IT WITH A TINY LITTLE BIT OF SELFISHNESS. I LOVE THE JOB THAT I'M PRIVILEGED ENOUGH TO DO. AND THE OPPORTUNITIES I HAVE TO MAKE CHANGE ARE FANTASTIC, ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME OPPORTUNITIES. BUT I ALSO LIKE THE ABILITY TO SPEND A BIT OF TIME WITH MY FAMILY, WITH MY FRIENDS AND HAVE JUST THAT LITTLE BIT OF BALANCE. YOU DON'T GET TO DO THAT IN SOME OF THESE ROLES IN POLITICS, SO I'M ABSOLUTELY HAPPY TO MAKE THE CONTRIBUTION I CAN MAKE, BUT HOPEFULLY, FROM GOVERNMENT RATHER THAN OPPOSITION. YOU TALKED ABOUT HELEN CLARK IN THERE. YOU KNOW, AS A FEMALE IN POLITICS AND AS A HIGH-PROFILE FEMALE IN POLITICS, HAS SHE TALKED TO YOU ABOUT THAT AND SOME OF THOSE ISSUES AROUND THAT? NO. I DID HEAR HER GIVE A TEDX SPEECH ONCE ABOUT PRESERVING A BIT OF SELF IN SOME OF THESE ROLES, WHICH WAS A FANTASTIC PRESENTATION, BUT THERE'S A NUMBER OF WOMEN IN POLITICS WHO I HAVE THESE KINDS OF CONVERSATIONS WITH, PEOPLE LIKE ANNETTE KING, EVEN MARIAN HOBBS ` A WHOLE RANGE OF PEOPLE I LOOK TO FOR ADVICE AND IDEAS AND SUPPORT. BUT I TALK AS MUCH TO THOSE PEOPLE ABOUT POLICY IDEAS AS I DO ANYTHING ELSE. BUT I ALSO TALK TO MY MALE COUNTERPARTS ABOUT THE STRAINS THEY HAVE ON THEIR FAMILY LIVES AS WELL, SO YEAH, THERE'S A REAL SENSE OF COLLEGIALITY AND COLLABORATION. HELEN'S A BIT TOO BUSY TO BE DISHING OUT ADVICE. SHE DIDN'T GIVE YOU ANYTHING WHEN YOU WORKED FOR HER, THOUGH, OR WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT WANTING TO COME INTO PARLIAMENT? I NEVER TALKED ABOUT WANTING TO COME INTO PARLIAMENT WITH HELEN, ACTUALLY. THAT WASN'T MY INTENTION WHEN I WORKED FOR HER. AT THE END OF THAT PERIOD, I THOUGHT, 'THIS JOB IS TOUGH.' I WENT OVERSEAS. I ACTUALLY LEFT NZ AND SPENT THREE YEARS JUST GETTING A BIT OF EXPERIENCE AND HAVING A REALLY FANTASTIC TIME WORKING IN LONDON, WORKING ON BUSINESS ISSUES AND WORKING ON A REVIEW OF POLICING IN ENGLAND AND WALES. I HAD A FANTASTIC EXPERIENCE, ACTUALLY. THE FIRST TIME THEN WHEN I WAS OVER THERE, I WAS ASKED TO RUN FOR PARLIAMENT. I SAID NO. IT TOOK A BIT OF CONVINCING FOR ME. YEAH, I MEAN, AND THERE'S A LOT OF ISSUES FOR WOMEN IN POLITICS, AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK LATELY ABOUT THIS WHOLE SEXISM ISSUE. DO YOU FIND IT HARD? AS A WOMAN IN POLITICS, ARE YOU A VICTIM OF THAT SEXISM? OH, LOOK, I THINK IT ABSOLUTELY EXISTS. IT EXISTS AS IT EXISTS IN BUSINESS, AS IT PROBABLY EXISTS IN JOURNALISM, AS IT EXISTS IN A WHOLE RANGE OF DIFFERENT PLACES. I THINK THE CHALLENGE, THOUGH, IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CONFRONT IT WHERE IT EXISTS AND SAY, 'LOOK, AS POLITICIANS, WE SHOULD BE HELD TO ACCOUNT, WE SHOULD BE SCRUTINISED, BUT MAKE SURE IT'S ON THE THINGS THAT MATTER, RATHER THAN ON ANY SUPERFICIAL MEASURE.' AND I'D SAY THAT'S ALL THAT WOMEN EVER ASK FOR ON ANY FIELD FOR IT TO BE A TRUE MERITOCRACY. BUT YOU'VE BEEN CALLED A SHOW PONY, A PRETTY LITTLE THING, SUPERFICIAL ` YOU KNOW, A WHOLE LOT OF NAMES LIKE THAT. DOES IT AFFECT YOU? HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH IT? YEAH, IT DOES, ACTUALLY. IT WAS FRUSTRATING. LOOK, BUT I ALWAYS TAKE IT IN THE CONTEXT IN WHICH IT'S ISSUED. FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, GRAHAM LOWE, DID HE INTEND TO OFFEND ME? NO. I DOUBT VERY MUCH HE DID. BUT SOME OF THE COMMENTARY THAT OCCURRED AFTERWARDS, SOME OF THAT I FOUND VERY HARD TO READ. AND I DO FIND IT FRUSTRATING. I GOT INTO POLITICS TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE, AND I WANT PEOPLE TO SCRUTINISE MY IDEAS, THE ALTERNATIVES I PUT UP, NOT WHETHER OR NOT MY HAIR MEANS I'M NOT CREDIBLE ENOUGH TO DO THE JOB. YEAH, I MEAN, IS THAT IN PARTICULAR THE SORT OF THING, AND DO YOU THINK THAT IS A GENUINELY HELD BELIEF THAT IF YOU LOOK GOOD, IF YOU DRESS WELL, IF YOU DO YOUR HAIR NICELY, THAT MEANS YOU'RE NOT AS SERIOUS ABOUT POLITICS? I WOULD HAVE HOPED TO HAVE SAID IN THE PAST THAT PERHAPS NOT, BUT SOME OF THE COMMENTARY I SAW IN THE NOT-TOO-DISTANT PAST DID MAKE ME QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS FRONT OF SOME PEOPLE'S MINDS. AND THAT'S THE KIND OF THING WE SHOULD ABSOLUTELY CHALLENGE. BUT ONE OF THE REASONS I DID WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT OPENLY IS BECAUSE I WOULDN'T WANT ANY YOUNG WOMAN OUT THERE WHO'S CONSIDERING A ROLE IN POLITICS TO THINK THAT THIS IS WHAT ANYONE CONFRONTS EVERY DAY. THEY DON'T. I DON'T. MOST OF THE TIME, PEOPLE ABSOLUTELY GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO PUT FORWARD IDEAS AND DON'T JUDGE YOU ON THOSE SUPERFICIAL THINGS. THIS IS A SOME-OF-THE-TIME ISSUE. SO I WOULD HOPE ANY YOUNG WOMAN OUT THERE WILL NOT BE PUT OFF THE IDEA OF POLITICS, BECAUSE IT IS A PLACE YOUNG WOMEN CAN MAKE A FANTASTIC CONTRIBUTION. HAS IT EVER MADE YOU WANT TO QUIT OR TO SAY TO OTHER WOMEN, 'NO, DON'T, BACK OFF, GET OUT OF POLITICS'? NO. NO. NO, IT'S NEVER BEEN TO THE POINT THAT IT WOULD EVER MAKE ME QUESTION DOING THE JOB, EVER. THERE'S MUCH BIGGER THINGS AND ISSUES THAT I FIND CHALLENGING IN POLITICS. THOSE KINDS OF COMMENTS, I NEVER LET GET TO ME TO THE POINT THAT I WOULD CONSIDER LEAVING THIS OPPORTUNITY. YOU ALSO GET CRITICISM FOR DOING SOFT MEDIA, FOR APPEARING ON NEXT MAGAZINE'S COVER AND THINGS LIKE THAT. WHY DO YOU FEEL IT'S IMPORTANT TO DO THOSE SORT OF INTERVIEWS? YEAH, AS I SAID, YOU KNOW, IN THE CURRENT CONTEXT, DO PEOPLE WATCH PARLIAMENTARY TV? DO THEY SEEK OUT POLITICAL IDEAS IN THE OLD TRADITIONAL FORMS? NO. AND WE HAVE TO BE REALISTIC ABOUT THAT. AND IF SOMEONE OFFERS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ME TO TAKE ISSUES LIKE CHILD POVERTY INTO ANOTHER FORMAT AND REACH PERHAPS A DIFFERENT AUDIENCE, THEN THAT'S AN OPPORTUNITY I'M GOING TO TAKE. NOW, THERE IS A LINE IN THERE, YOU KNOW, THAT ODD JONO AND BEN SHOW OPPORTUNITY THAT I'VE SAID NO TO, SO YOU DO HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU MAINTAIN A SENSE OF THE IMPORTANCE, I GUESS, OF THE OFFICE OF BEING AN MP. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE SHOULD BE USING ALTERNATIVE FORMS OF MEDIA TO REACH PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY WHEN THOSE MESSAGES ARE SO IMPORTANT. WHO IS JACINDA ARDERN? WE SAW RUSSEL NORMAN'S QUITTING PARLIAMENT TO HEAD GREENPEACE; IF YOU WERE TO QUIT PARLIAMENT, WHAT MATTERS TO YOU? WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO BE DOING? WHAT SHOULD PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT YOU? I THINK PROBABLY WHAT GETS ME OUT OF BED IN THE MORNING IS STILL CHILD WELL-BEING, CHILD DEVELOPMENT. YOU KNOW, IF I WEREN'T IN PARLIAMENT, I WOULD PROBABLY BE A CHILD ADVOCATE OF SOME DESCRIPTION. OR I COULD PLAUSIBLY SEE MYSELF EVEN TEACHING ` SOMETHING IN THE SPACE WHERE I FELT I WAS STILL MAKING A DIFFERENCE. BUT LOOK, IF I LEFT PARLIAMENT, HAVING BEEN ABLE TO CREATE A CHILDREN'S MINISTRY, PUT IN PLACE OUR CHILD POVERTY AN ERADICATION LAW THAT MIMICS THE UK'S LEGISLATION, IF I COULD BRING IN OUR BEST TAX CREDIT FOR CHILDREN AND BABIES, IF I COULD BEEF UP THE USE OF PLUNKET AS A WAY OF EARLY INTERVENTION FOR CHILDREN, TO PREVENT CHILD ABUSE AND HARM, IF I COULD BUILD NURSE-FAMILY PARTNERSHIPS IN NZ, THESE ARE THINGS THAT I WOULD LEAVE POLITICS FEELING PROUD OF. THAT'S MY GOAL. Josie, no aspiring leader is going to say I want to be leader. What you've seen the is somebody who is clearly very appealing with the public, she sounds so positive and relaxed. When you look at the wave of anti-politician across the world, there is a desire for authenticity. When she says that she wants balance in her life, that genuine authenticity is really appealing to people. The point she is making is that as a woman in politics, you have to work extra hard to be taken seriously. Jeremy Corbyn in the UK has given all his top jobs to mean. I don't see any of the men offering to swap with the women. If I was Anette King, I might be worried. Just send a looks like she would be a very good Deputy leader she can restart the conversation with the public is the face of new Labour. You are nodding in agreement with all of that. Just send a soft media really well and communicate with people who aren't interested in politics. People aren't interested in politics but they know of Jacinda. The only other politician who does that really well in New Zealand is John Key. He circumvents morning reports and communicates directly to members of the public. Fran, I can't remember a politician has been scrutinised so much because they haven't been whacked with the ugly stick. Maybe. She's appealing and I think it's good for her to do things like the next cover. Women have to hide the facts of the female personality and femininity. She was is airbrushed as Helen Clark was in her day. Perfect cheekbones and gorgeous porcelain skin. These people can project when they want to. I don't see her is any different to Helen and respect. What she does have yet is the gravitates that Helen had. With Jacinda I see her reaching out to younger generations in softening the parties emerge. I think it's really helpful. If you look at what Labour has gone through over the last three years, it has not affected the Jacinda Ardern brand at all. The challenge for Jacinda is to go in and actually own a particular idea. Not just child poverty, but giving Labour to 40% not 30%. The reason that Labour lost last time was an inability to appeal to all people. Labour needs to be at 40%. People want a strong labour so the tale is not wigging the dog. She could represent the capacity for Labour to be a 40% party. That will mean taking some risks. If you look at the Herald mood of the boardrooms survey, CEOs always raters one of the most impressive Labour Mps. She is able to engage. Jacinda is like Nicky K. They are both very strong identities on the Auckland circuit. She does a lot of husbandry with the business sector because she gets out therein has been constant in Auckland. Is it just an Auckland thing would assume resonate nationally? Doing the soft media, and there is a real snobbery in that way, the point cheesemaking is absolutely right. You do soft media because you're reaching people that otherwise you wouldn't reach. LET'S LOOK ACROSS THE TASMAN, WHERE AUSTRALIANS HAVE A NEW PRIME MINISTER WHO'S A BIG FAN OF OUR ONE. JOHN KEY HAS BEEN ABLE TO ACHIEVE VERY SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC REFORMS IN NZ BY DOING JUST THAT ` BY TAKING` EXPLAINING COMPLEX ISSUES IN NZ BY DOING JUST THAT ` BY TAKING` EXPLAINING COMPLEX ISSUES AND THEN MAKING THE CASE FOR THEM, AND THAT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT I BELIEVE WE SHOULD DO. He likes John Key apparently. Tony Abbott had a grace period after debris and did nothing about it it didn't look like he would get the reins back for very long. No, he's too gentlemanly. What Malcolm has is man management. He would be better at being the first among a cabinet of equals. We're the Australian government lost its way was that the budget where they had this dreadful photo of Joe Hocking with the cigar chomping away and as office while he ripped the guts out of various areas of the economy and they never really got going properly. They need someone else who can sell the economic agenda. Malcolm needs to do something which compels more women into the ministry. It's really lights and in this day and age you don't expect to see that. I love John Clark's comment that this had been a seamless transition to the sales division of the Labour Party. The problem Turnbull has is the only one it by 10 votes. He stuck between the Liberals and the Conservatives who are worried that he's going to get too much ahead and change things. Talking about public perception here. Tony Abbott's nickname was the mad Monk. To that end, Malcolm Turnbull is a bit of a safer beat. Absolutely. Both Malcolm Turnbull and Tony Abbott profess the admiration for the key English approach but then Abbott has completely ignored it. They do the complete opposite of how key and English operate. They wake out a massive budget which perhaps the hardest hit areas of Australia it will be fascinating to see. Picking up on the point of John Key and Bill English, shortly after the Liberals came into government, Key took whole bunch of business people and journalists across to meet the new administration. After Abbott praised John Key is being his soulmate, when they sit down together, they had a liberal style party power well, they were really surprised and shocked that Abbott was saying one thing publicly, but had no plans to managers caucus to create a broad consensus to move policies. Turnbull is eminently more popular and appealing. Not with his own caucus. But the only has a team majority. Is the time between now and the next election to get it together? He has to take the public with them. That's the main thing. He has to present himself as much more vibrant than Bill shorten. Shorten his had a dream run. Malcolm has to grab the agenda. They keep saying how bad the polls worker Tony Abbott. I was 48% we have to leave it there. THANKS TO OUR PANEL. STAY WITH US ` WE'RE LOOKING AT WHY TWO VERY DIFFERENT POLITICIANS HAVE GOT AMERICAN VOTERS SO EXCITED. NOBODY'S GONNA BE ABLE TO DO THE JOB THAT I'M GONNA DO. CHEERING NOBODY. THEY WON'T. POLICY-WISE, THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE MUCH IN COMMON, BUT BERNIE SANDERS AND DONALD TRUMP ARE SHAKING UP THE RACE FOR PRESIDENCY WITH THEIR UNLIKELY, OUTSIDE CAMPAIGNS. BOTH HAVE PAINTED THEMSELVES AS STAUNCHLY ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT, AND FIVE MONTHS FROM THE FIRST PRIMARIES, THEY'RE ENJOYING LARGELY UNEXPECTED POPULARITY IN THE POLLS. VERMONT SENATOR AND SELF-DESCRIBED SOCIALIST BERNIE SANDERS LEADS HILLARY IN IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE, WHILE PROPERTY MOGUL AND TV STAR DONALD TRUMP DOMINATES THE REPUBLICAN FIELD. OUR US CORRESPONDENT JACK TAME VISITED RALLIES FOR THE TWO CANDIDATES TO FIND OUT WHY. ALL: BERNIE! TWO NIGHTS, TWO CITIES, TWO VERY DIFFERENT CROWDS, TWO VERY DIFFERENT CANDIDATES FOR PRESIDENT. THIS CAMPAIGN IS SENDING A VERY SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD MESSAGE TO THE BILLIONAIRE CLASS, AND THAT MESSAGE IS ` YOU CANNOT HAVE IT ALL! CHEERING IF YOU NEEDED TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN BERNIE SANDERS AND DONALD TRUMP, THEIR RESPECTIVE CHOICES OF INTRO SONGS SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT. # KEEP ON ROCKIN' IN THE FREE WORLD. # # YOU'RE THE BEST AROUND. NOTHING'S GONNA EVER KEEP YA DOWN. # YOU'RE THE BEST AROUND. # AT BOTH OF THESE RALLIES ` ALL: WE WANT BERNIE! GREENSBOROUGH NORTH CAROLINA, AT A COMMUNITY EVENTS CENTRE, FOR BERNIE SANDERS; AND DALLAS TEXAS, AT A STADIUM LENT TO HIM BY BILLIONAIRE FRIEND MARK CUBAN FOR DONALD TRUMP ` THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS TURNED OUT TO HEAR THEIR CANDIDATE SPEAK. THIS IS THE FIRST ONE I'VE EVER BEEN TO. THE AMERICAN POLITICAL SYSTEM NEEDS A CANDIDATE THAT'S ONE OF US, AND I CAME OUT TO SHOW MY SUPPORT FOR BERNIE SANDERS. SANDERS' RUN HAS BEEN INCREDIBLE. FACING THE SUPREMELY FINANCED AND ORGANISED CAMPAIGN OF HILLARY CLINTON, THE VERMONT SENATOR HAS SOARED IN THE POLLS. A LOT OF THE MEDIA SAID, 'WELL, YOU KNOW, BERNIE SANDERS, A NICE GUY, BUT HE'S A FRINGE CANDIDATE, BECAUSE WHO IN AMERICA THINKS WE'RE PREPARED TO STAND UP TO THE BILLIONAIRE CLASS AND FIGHT FOR JUSTICE? CHEERING FOR MANY HERE, SANDERS' INEQUALITY MESSAGE IS KEY. HE'S NOT FOR THE BILLIONAIRES, HE'S FOR THE REGULAR PEOPLE, AND THAT'S WHAT I AM. HE'S FOR THE PEOPLE ` YOU KNOW, THE AVERAGE AGE PERSON, NOT FOR THE RICH, HE WANTS TO HELP EVERYBODY. THAT'S THE ONLY POLITICIAN SO FAR THAT'S COME OUT WITH THAT. BERNIE SANDERS IS RUNNING ON A PLATFORM OF BIG GOVERNMENT. HE WANTS UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE, FREE UNIVERSITY TUITION AND A MASSIVE FEDERAL JOBS PROGRAMME REBUILDING AND REPAIRING AMERICA'S CREAKING INFRASTRUCTURE. SOME ESTIMATES PUT THE COST OF HIS POLICY AT $28 TRILLION OVER 10 YEARS, WHICH SANDERS SAYS HE'LL FUND BY TAXING CORPORATE AMERICA. SO, WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT IS A PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN, A CAMPAIGN OF MILLIONS OF ORDINARY AMERICANS, MANY OF WHOM ARE WORKING LONGER HOURS FOR LOWER WAGES, WHO ARE DEMANDING AN ECONOMY THAT WORKS FOR ALL OF US AND NOT JUST THE 1%. CHEERING IT'S REALLY WEIRD TO GET A POLITICIAN IN THE US WHO'S SO EXCITING AND WHO'S SO HONEST. WELL, I'M A QUEER TEENAGER, AND SO A LOT OF ME IS WORRIED ABOUT THE WAYS THAT OUR REPUBLICAN-CENTRE GOVERNMENT IS GONNA AFFECT WHAT I'M GONNA BE ABLE TO DO WHEN I GROW UP, SO I'M HERE PARTIALLY COS I FEEL LIKE HE SUPPORTS THE QUEER COMMUNITY. ELLA ROCKART WON'T EVEN BE OLD ENOUGH TO VOTE NEXT YEAR, BUT SHE'S ONE OF THE MANY YOUNG DEMOCRATS TO FAVOUR SANDERS OVER HILLARY CLINTON. WHAT'S FRUSTRATING IS THAT HILLARY IS SO INACCESSIBLE. ALL: WE WANT BERNIE! PERHAPS THE BIGGEST IMPACT FROM SANDERS' CAMPAIGN IS THE GRASSROOTS ENGAGEMENT. 150,000 PEOPLE HAVE SIGNED UP TO VOLUNTEER FOR BERNIE SANDERS, AND UNLIKE CLINTON, HE WON'T HAVE A SUPER PACK. I LIKE HER TOO. I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A CLINTON FAN. YOU KNOW, I VOTED FOR HER HUSBAND, AND I WAS GONNA VOTE FOR HER ` AND I'M NOT SURE YET, I'LL BE HONEST ` BUT I'M BEGINNING TO LIKE BERNIE A LITTLE BIT BETTER. ETHNICALLY SPEAKING, THIS IS AN HOMOGENOUS CROWD. IT'S A YOUNG CROWD, BUT A HOMOGENOUS CROWD. AND IT'S WITH MINORITY VOTERS ` AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND LATINOS ` THAT BERNIE SANDERS TRAILS HILLARY CLINTON BY THE GREATEST MARGINS. BUT WHILE BERNIE SANDERS' CAMPAIGN PAINTS THE 1% AS VILLAINOUS, DONALD TRUMP CELEBRATES HIS BILLIONAIRE STATUS. I HAVE TREMENDOUS ENERGY, TREMENDOUS, TO A POINT WHERE IT'S ALMOST RIDICULOUS. AS SUPPORTERS GATHERED FOR HIS DALLAS RALLY, OUTSIDE, AS MANY AS A THOUSAND, MAINLY HISPANIC PROTESTERS, GATHERED. I'M WILLIAM BALDWIN. I LIVE IN GAINESVILLE, TEXAS, AND I'VE ALWAYS KEPT UP WITH POLITICS, AND I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT AMERICA'S IN THE SHAPE IT'S IN TODAY. WILLIAM BALDWIN IS ONE OF MANY WE SPOKE TO REFRESHED BY TRUMP'S ATTITUDE TOWARDS ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. WELL, THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE STANDING OUTSIDE THAT ARE PROTESTING, THOSE MEXICANS TELLING US THAT WE DON'T KNOW WHERE OUR MOM AND DAD COME FROM ` THEY KNOW WHERE THEY CAME FROM, THEY COME FROM MEXICO ` TO HECK WITH THEM. IF WE WENT TO MEXICO AND DID WHAT THEY DID, WE'D BE SHOT DOWN. THEY NEED TO GO BACK TO MEXICO AND STRAIGHTEN THEIR COUNTRY OUT. THAT'S WHAT THEY NEED TO DO. AND IF WE CAN GET DONALD TRUMP ELECTED, THAT MAY HAPPEN. I WANNA SEE DONALD TRUMP LIVE AND IN LIVING COLOUR. PATRICIA ALEXANDER WAS RAISED AS A DEMOCRAT, BUT NOW SIDES WITH TRUMP. YOU KNOW, I WANNA HEAR HIM TALK MORE ABOUT THE ECONOMY; WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO; SOCIAL SECURITY AND THE LIKE; YOU KNOW, AND ESPECIALLY WITH THIS ISIS. THIS IS ONE THING THAT I WANT HIM TO DO, TO GET RID OF THE ISIS. I THINK THERE'S A FEAR IN AMERICA, AND THEY'RE OVER THERE, AND IF WE DON'T WATCH OUT, IT'S GONNA TRY AND TAKE OUR COUNTRY. FOR THE TIME BEING, AT LEAST, DONALD TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN FEATURES VERY LITTLE SPECIFIC POLICY. IN DALLAS, MOST OF HIS SPEECH PLAYED OUT AS BOMBASTIC, IF HUMOROUS, SELF-PROMOTION. NOBODY'S GONNA BE ABLE TO DO THE JOB THAT I'M GONNA DO. NOBODY. THEY WON'T. STILL, TRUMP'S LACK OF POLITICAL EXPERIENCE SEEMS TO BE WORKING IN HIS FAVOUR. WE'RE DONE WITH POLITICS AS WE KNOW IT. IT'S OVER FOREVER. HE HAS CHANGED IT FOREVER AS WE KNOW IT NOW. HE'S GOT A LOT OF EXPERIENCE AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED. HE'S A BUSINESSMAN. POLITICS AIN'T ABOUT NOTHING BUT BUSINESS. ANYTHING YOU NEED DONE. I MEAN, I'M IMPRESSED WHEN HE SAYS HE KNOWS PEOPLE IN MEXICO, CHINA ` YOU NAME IT, YOU KNOW? A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, FEW WOULD HAVE EXPECTED DONALD TRUMP TO DRAW THESE SORTS OF CROWDS AT HIS ELECTION RALLIES. BUT PERHAPS HIS GREATEST CHALLENGE IS TO EXPAND HIS VOTER BASE. AS WE DRAW CLOSER TO THE ELECTION PRIMARIES, INEVITABLY, THE VOTING PUBLIC WILL BE DIVIDED BY FEWER REMAINING CANDIDATES. <BLEEP>! AND WHEN THESE SORTS OF TUSSLES BREAK OUT WITH TRUMP PROTESTERS, YOU HAVE TO QUERY IF HIS IMMIGRATION POLICY MIGHT WIN REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES BUT DOOM THE GOP BY DESTROYING THE HISPANIC VOTE COME THE GENERAL ELECTION. YOU HAVE TO BUILD A WALL, AND A WALL WORKS. I WANT THEM TO COME IN, I WANNA HAVE A BIG BEAUTIFUL DOOR, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE LEGAL. BEING HERE IN TEXAS, THE IMMIGRATION POLICY IS A BIG PROBLEM HERE, AND HE SPEAKS FOR ALL OF US HERE ABOUT THAT. < SO WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE A WALL BUILT? YES. WE'VE NEEDED THAT FOR YEARS. IT SPEAKS TO THE LEVEL OF ENGAGEMENT AND THEATRE IN AMERICAN POLITICS THAT 14 MONTHS FROM THE GENERAL ELECTION, TWO PERHAPS UNLIKELY CANDIDATES ARE ALREADY DRAWING CROWDS THIS BIG. BUT PEOPLE HERE ARE DIVIDED AS TO WHETHER DONALD TRUMP OR BERNIE SANDERS COULD ACTUALLY WIN THE WHITE HOUSE. YOU KNOW, THAT'S A LONG WAY OFF. REALISTICALLY, IT'S A LONG SHOT. BUT FOR NOW, IT'S A TON OF FUN. I worried Donald Trump's modest step will trip up. AFTER THE BREAK ` BRITISH ARMY LAWYER, HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR AND EQUAL RIGHTS CAMPAIGNER ` THE EXTRAORDINARY STORY OF RABIA SIDDIQUE. AUSTRALIAN RABIA SIDDIQUE IS MANY THINGS ` A HUMANITARIAN, A FORMER PROSECUTOR OF TERRORIST AND WAR CRIMES, A RETIRED BRITISH ARMY OFFICER, A HOSTAGE SURVIVOR AND MOTHER OF TRIPLETS. SHE ALSO TOOK ON THE BRITISH ESTABLISHMENT AND WON, ACCEPTING AN OUT-OF-COURT SETTLEMENT FROM THE BRITISH MINISTRY OF DEFENCE. RABIA LIVES IN PERTH WHERE SHE'S WRITTEN A BOOK ABOUT HER REMARKABLE EXPERIENCES CALLED 'EQUAL JUSTICE'. NEXT MONTH SHE'LL BE HERE TO SPEAK TO THE PROFESSIONAL WOMEN'S CONFERENCE ORGANISED BY THE CHRISTCHURCH WOMEN'S LEGAL ASSOCIATION. EARLIER, SUSAN WOOD SPOKE TO HER AND BEGAN BY ASKING WHY SHE JOINED THE MILITARY. I DECIDED TO JOIN THE BRITISH ARMY AS A LEGAL OFFICER HAVING BEEN A HUMAN RIGHTS AND CRIMINAL LAWYER FOR QUITE SOME TIME. AND TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST, JOINING THE BRITISH MILITARY WAS SOMETHING THAT I'D NEVER PLANNED. IT WAS REALLY A MEANS TO AN END BECAUSE MY DREAM WAS TO HELP VICTIMS OF WAR CRIMES AND TO REALLY HELP THOSE IN PARTS OF THE WORLD TO ACCESS JUSTICE AND TO FIND A VOICE, AND AT THE TIME THE BRITISH ARMY WAS A VERY GOOD VEHICLE FOR IT. ABOUT THREE AND A HALF YEARS INTO MY CAREER IN THE BRITISH MILITARY, I WAS SELECTED TO DEPLOY AS THE SOLE LEGAL ADVISER WITH THE BRITISH BRIGADE TO IRAQ ON WHAT WE CALLED OPERATION TELIC. AND IT WAS PRIOR TO DEPLOYING TO IRAQ THAT I REALISED THAT ONCE AND FOR ALL I NEEDED TO GET BACK IN TOUCH WITH MY RELIGIOUS AND CULTURAL ROOTS. BECAUSE I WAS A MIGRANT'S KID ` MY FAMILY ` MY DAD IS AN INDIAN MUSLIM ` WE IMMIGRATED TO AUSTRALIA IN THE '70S, WHEN 'WHITE AUSTRALIA' POLICY AND ASSIMILATION WAS VERY MUCH THE BUZZ WORDS, AND THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESSURE ON US TO FIT IN AND TO BECOME GOOD AUSSIES. AND ONE OF THE DECISIONS THAT MY FATHER MADE EARLY ON I GUESS, BECAUSE OF A LOT OF PREJUDICE THAT HE SUFFERED WAS THAT WE WERE TO DISTANCE OURSELVES FROM OUR MUSLIM HERITAGE IN ORDER TO FIT IN. AND I HAD PRETTY MUCH DONE THAT MOST OF MY LIFE, AND IT WASN'T UNTIL I WAS FACED WITH THE PROSPECT OF DEPLOYING TO IRAQ, YOU KNOW, THIS WAR-TORN MUSLIM COUNTRY, AS AN UNINVITED GUEST, THAT I REALISED THAT I HAD A RESPONSIBILITY TO EMBRACE AND TO UNDERSTAND MY MUSLIM HERITAGE. HOW DID YOU PREPARE FOR IRAQ? I LEARNT ARABIC AND I RESEARCHED THE TEACHINGS OF THE KORAN AND I READ ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THAT PART OF THE WORLD SO THAT BY THE TIME I DEPLOYED TO IRAQ, I DID HAVE SOME APPRECIATION AND UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THEY LIVED AND WHAT THEY HAD BEEN THROUGH. AND BECAUSE OF THIS AND BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT I APPROACHED MY WORK WITH MY IRAQI COLLEAGUES, I WAS ABLE TO ESTABLISH STRONG RELATIONSHIPS WITH THEM. SO FAST-FORWARD SIX MONTHS INTO MY OPERATIONAL TOUR WHEN WE FOUND OUT THAT TWO SPECIAL FORCES SOLDIERS HAD BEEN KIDNAPPED AND ILLEGALLY DETAINED AND TAKEN TO A TERRORIST HEADQUARTERS, MY COLLEAGUE, WHO WAS A MALE, SAME RANK AS ME ` I WAS A MAJOR BY THIS STAGE ` HE WAS SENT IN TO CONDUCT A RECOGNISANCE MISSION WITH HIS MEN. WHAT HAPPENED THEN? THE IRAQIS MADE IT CLEAR THAT THEY WOULDN'T SPEAK WITH HIM, THAT THEY DIDN'T TRUST HIM, THAT THE ONLY ONE THAT THEY WOULD NEGOTIATE WITH AND THE ONLY ONE THAT THEY TRUSTED WAS ME. SO I WAS ORDERED TO GO IN AND TO LEAD THE NEGOTIATIONS FOR THE RELEASE AND THE LIVES OF THESE TWO MEN. AND TO CUT A LONG STORY SHORT, IT WENT WELL FOR SOME TIME, BUT THEN EVERYTHING WENT PEAR-SHAPED AFTER SEVERAL HOURS BECAUSE A CROWD OF CIVILIANS THAT HAD GATHERED OUTSIDE THE COMPOUND, THAT GREW FROM 200 WHEN I ARRIVED TO 3000 LATER IN THE DAY, STORMED THE COMPOUND. AND ONCE THE CROWD STORMED THE COMPOUND, EVERYTHING CHANGED, AND I WAS THEN HELD HOSTAGE, ALONG WITH MY MALE COLLEAGUE. WE WERE EVENTUALLY RESCUED, INCLUDING THE TWO SPECIAL FORCES SOLDIERS THAT WE'D BEEN SENT IN TO TRY AND GET RELEASED. MY COLLEAGUE WAS DEBRIEFED AND LATER AWARDED A MILITARY CROSS FOR HIS BRAVERY. I WAS NEVER DEBRIEFED, MY ROLE IN THE EVENT WAS NEVER ACKNOWLEDGED OR RECOGNISED, AND I WAS ORDERED NEVER TO SPEAK OF MY EXISTENCE AT THE COMPOUND ON THAT DAY. WERE YOU TREATED DIFFERENTLY` OF COURSE. ...BECAUSE YOU ARE FEMALE AND BECAUSE YOU'RE A MUSLIM WOMAN? DO YOU KNOW, THE SAD THING IS UP UNTIL THAT POINT I HADN'T FELT ANY DIFFERENT TREATMENT. I WAS TREATED WITH RESPECT AND WITH EQUALITY, AND I WAS ENJOYING A VERY PRODUCTIVE, SUCCESSFUL MILITARY CAREER. IT WAS LITERALLY THAT DAY, SEVERAL HOURS AFTER, YOU KNOW, BEING SENT IN AND BEING RESPECTED ENOUGH TO CARRY OUT THIS IMPORTANT JOB TO NEGOTIATE FOR THE LIVES OF THESE TWO MEN, SOMETHING CHANGED IN THOSE INTERVENING HOURS WHERE THE DECISION FROM ON HIGH WAS TO WRITE ME OUT OF THE EVENT. HAS YOUR CASE MADE A DIFFERENCE TO WOMEN IN THE BRITISH ARMY? I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT THE LANDMARK DISCRIMINATION CASE THAT I MOUNTED AS A RESULT OF MY TREATMENT FIRSTLY WITH THE BRITISH FORCES CHANGED THINGS. THAT SET INTO PLAY A SEQUENCE OF EVENTS THAT LITERALLY WITHIN THE SAME YEAR AS MY CASE CHANGED POLICIES AND ATTITUDES TOWARDS WOMEN AND ETHNIC MINORITIES IN THE ARMED FORCES. AND I KNOW THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE AUSTRALIAN AND THE NZ ARMED FORCES ARE GRAPPLING WITH AT THE MOMENT. WHAT REALLY SURPRISED ME, THOUGH, HAVING BEEN AWAY FROM AUSTRALIA FOR 13 YEARS, I WASN'T PREPARED FOR HOW BEHIND AUSTRALIA WAS IN TERMS OF EQUALITY AND DIVERSITY. YOU KNOW, YOU AS A NATION HAVE ALREADY EMBRACED MARRIAGE EQUALITY. YOU AS A NATION HAVE A FAR MORE ENLIGHTENED AND SOPHISTICATED APPROACH ON THE IMPORTANCE OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE AND CULTURE IN YOUR NATION, AND YOU CELEBRATE THAT. IN TERMS OF GENDER EQUALITY, WE'RE LIGHT YEARS BEHIND. AND, LOOK, THERE HAS BEEN PROGRESS, BUT THE BATTLE ISN'T OVER. ARE YOU GLAD YOU DID IT? YOU KNOW, I CAME BACK TO THIS COUNTRY LOOKING AT IT THROUGH NEW EYES, REALLY LOOKING AT THE LACK OF EQUALITY, THE DISCRIMINATION AND, DARE I SAY, THE IGNORANCE. AND SO THAT'S WHAT I'VE DEDICATED, I GUESS, MY EFFORTS IN MY CAREER TO NOW ` IS TO WORKING IN THE SPACE WHERE THE MESSAGE THAT I TRY AND CONVEY IS THAT WE ALL HAVE THE CAPACITY AND THE RESPONSIBILITY TO CREATE RIPPLES OF CHANGE, AND I THINK THAT'S HOW WE WILL CONTINUE TO PROGRESS SO THAT WE ARE MORE EQUAL, TOLERANT, DIVERSE, ACCEPTING NATIONS. TO SOME OF YOUR FEEDBACK ON CORIN'S INTERVIEW WITH STEVEN JOYCE. PATRICK GLEESON POSTED ON FACEBOOK... COLIN CROIX POSTED... ROSS TEXTED... AND TOBY TEXTED... ON KATIE BRADFORD'S INTERVIEW WITH JACINDA ARDERN, JOHN MURRAY WALKER POSTED ON FACEBOOK... WAKA HUIA IS NEXT. REMEMBER, Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35 PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS. THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT 9. CAPTIONS BY ALANA CRUIKSHANK AND JESSICA BOELL. CAPTIONS WERE MADE POSSIBLE WITH FUNDING FROM NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2015