MORENA, GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M GREG BOYED. THIS WEEK, THE GOVERNMENT MOVED TO TIGHTEN IMMIGRATION. TODAY JESSICA MUTCH INTERVIEWS WINSTON PETERS, WHO'S LONG CAMPAIGNED ON CONTROLLING MIGRANT NUMBERS. WELL, IF THEY DID SOMETHING SOUND AND SUBSTANTIAL, I'D AGREE WITH THEM. THEN ` MEDICINAL MARIJUANA. A GROUP CAMPAIGNING FOR MORE CANNABIS-BASED MEDICINES HAS HAD A BIG VICTORY THIS WEEK. GREAT NEWS. IT'S BEEN A LONG WHILE COMING. UNION LEADER HELEN KELLY DIED ON FRIDAY AFTER A LONG BATTLE WITH CANCER. WIDELY RESPECTED AND DEDICATED TO WORKER'S RIGHTS TO THE END, WE HAVE HER LAST TV INTERVIEW, RECORDED JUST TWO WEEKS AGO. WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNT FROM YOUR LIFE? > HMM. IT'S A BIG QUESTION, ISN'T IT? > IT'S A BIG QUESTION. DUE TO THE LIVE NATURE OF Q+A, WE APOLOGISE FOR THE LACK OF CAPTIONS FOR SOME ITEMS. AND WE'LL HAVE ANALYSIS FROM OUR PANEL ` POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR JENNIFER CURTIN FROM AUCKLAND UNIVERSITY; CHLOE SWARBRICK, LAST SEEN HERE AS AN AUCKLAND MAYORAL CANDIDATE, SHE'S ALSO A BUSINESS OWNER; AND FRAN O'SULLIVAN, NZME EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, BUSINESS. WE'LL HEAR FROM YOU ALL SHORTLY, BUT FIRST, HERE'S JESSICA. AFTER YEARS OF RECORD MIGRATION LEVELS, THE GOVERNMENT THIS WEEK ANNOUNCED CHANGES THAT WILL REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE MOVING TO NZ. IT WILL RAISE THE NUMBER OF POINTS NEEDED UNDER THE SKILLED MIGRANT CATEGORY. AND IT WILL PLACE A TEMPORARY BAN ON APPLICATIONS UNDER THE PARENT CATEGORY, WHICH ALLOWS PARENTS TO JOIN CHILDREN WHO HAVE NZ RESIDENCE. IN ALL, THERE'LL BE 5000 FEWER MIGRANTS OVER TWO YEARS ACCORDING TO GOVERNMENT ESTIMATES. NZ FIRST LEADER WINSTON PETERS HAS LONG CAMPAIGNED FOR CONTROLS ON IMMIGRATION. SO I ASKED HIM ` DID HE SEE THIS AS A WIN? NO, I DON'T REALLY, BECAUSE THE CONSEQUENCES AND COST FOR THIS COUNTRY IS MASSIVE, AND THEY'LL BE HERE FOR MANY MANY YEARS. SO IT'S NOT A VICTORY TO SEE THEM DO A BIT OF TINKERING AROUND THE EDGES. THEY'VE BEEN IN ABSOLUTE DENIAL. THEY HAVE MISLED THE COUNTRY GROSSLY. THEY HAVE GIVEN ALL SORTS OF ASSURANCES THAT WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS NOT TRUE, AND NOW THEY'RE HAVING TO ADMIT IT. BUT THE COST THAT'S COMING WILL BE YEARS IN TERMS OF HOUSING, INFRASTRUCTURE, HOSPITAL FUNDING, THE DHBS AND EVERY OTHER THING THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT WHERE COST IS CONCERNED IS NOW FOR THE FUTURE ACCOUNT OF THE NZ TAXPAYER. EVEN THOUGH YOU CALL THIS TINKERING, DO YOU FEEL SOMEWHAT VINDICATED? THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN CLOSE TO YOUR HEART FOR A LONG TIME. WELL, IF THEY DID SOMETHING SOUND AND SUBSTANTIAL, I WOULD AGREE WITH THEM, BUT TAKE, FOR EXAMPLE, PARENTAL REUNION. THEY'VE SAID IT'S SUSPENDED NOW UNTIL 2018. WELL, THEY'VE GOTTEN ALMOST 2500 APPLICATIONS. THAT'S WHY IT'S SUSPENDED, SITTING PARKED UP NOW. WHEN IT COMES TO THE ISSUE OF THE SKILLS CATEGORY, NEARLY ONE IN TWO ARE COMING IN WITHOUT SKILLS. THEY'RE HERE NOW. AND THEN WHEN YOU COME TO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE CHANGES ON THE STUDENT VISAS, WELL, YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED. STUDENTS WERE COMING IN FOR EXPORT EDUCATION, THEN THEY SAID, 'YOU CAN WORK IN OUR ECONOMY.' IT'S NO LONGER EXPORT EDUCATION WHEN THEY SAY THAT. AND THEN THEY SAID BECAUSE WE WEREN'T COMPETING WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD'S BEST EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS, 'OH, WE'LL GIVE YOU A PATHWAY TO RESIDENCY.' YOU SEE HOW IT'S PERVERTED IT? AND THEN A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE EXPORT EDUCATION BUSINESS ARE ACTUALLY FROM ABROAD IN THIS COUNTRY EXPLOITING THEIR OWN PEOPLE, AND THE FRAUD IS MASSIVE. NOW, WHEN WE PRODUCED ALL THAT INFORMATION, THIS GOVERNMENT MET US IN PARLIAMENT AND IN THE MEDIA DAY AFTER DAY, SAYING THAT THIS WASN'T TRUE. DO YOU THINK IT'S POLITICAL, THEN? DO YOU THINK THEY'VE SEEN THIS GAP AND SEEN HOW POPULAR YOUR POLICY IS, I GUESS, AND THEY'RE TRYING TO STEAL YOUR THUNDER? IS THAT HOW IT FEELS TO YOU? WELL, IT MAY BE THAT, BUT WHAT REALLY CONCERNS MY PARTY IS THAT HOWEVER FRIVOLOUSLY THEY MIGHT ACT NOW, STILL THE MASSIVE COST TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE IS TO THE NZ TAXPAYER, AND THE DEMAND IS, AS YOU KNOW, IN HOUSING IS MASSIVE. LOOK AT THE GRIDLOCK IN AUCKLAND ` TWO AND A HALF, TWO AND THREE-QUARTER HOURS MORNING AND NIGHT NOW. DO YOU THINK THAT'S PURELY BECAUSE OF IMMIGRATION? DO YOU THINK THAT'S TO BLAME? WELL, IF YOU'RE BRINGING IN 70,000 NET A YEAR ` THAT'S NET AND THE CITY OF NEW PLYMOUTH ` TO AUCKLAND A YEAR AND 40,000 CARS NEW ON THE ROADS OF AUCKLAND EVERY YEAR, I MEAN, WHO HERE IS DREAMING THAT AFTER THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTION THAT THEY'RE GOING TO FIX ANYTHING? YOU GET MY POINT. IS THAT SCAREMONGERING A LITTLE BIT, THOUGH, TO BLAME THE HOUSING CRISIS, TO BLAME AUCKLAND'S TRANSPORT SITUATION ON MIGRANTS? NO, I'M NOT BLAMING THEM ON MIGRANTS. I'M SAYING WE'RE ALREADY GOT A CRISIS ` A DOMESTIC ONE. BUT JUST TO MAKE SURE WE CAN'T GET ON TOP OF IT, WE'RE LOADING UP ALL THIS ARTIFICIAL DEMAND. LOOK, GET ONE THING CLEAR. WE DON'T BLAME PEOPLE FOR TRYING TO MAKE A NEW LIFE IN OUR COUNTRY, BUT WE DO BLAME CENTRAL GOVERNMENT FOR NOT HAVING A FOCUSED IMMIGRATION POLICY AND DOING ITS BEST AND WHAT'S BEST FOR THE NZ TAXPAYER AS THEIR NUMBER ONE FOCUS AND FOR THE ECONOMY. WHEN ONE OUT OF TWO IS UNSKILLED AND YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT A SKILLS CATEGORY, AS A GOVERNMENT YOU'RE JUST INVOLVED IN, TO PUT IT BLUNTLY, LYING. BECAUSE LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PARENTS THAT HAVE BEEN VERY MUCH A FOCUS THIS WEEK. PEOPLE WHO HAVE IMMIGRATED HERE, AS YOU SAY, WANT TO CREATE A BETTER LIFE FOR THEMSELVES. THEY WANT THEIR PARENTS TO COME IN. ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, CAN YOU SEE HOW THAT WOULD MAKE THEM FEEL MORE SETTLED HERE IN NZ? WELL, OF COURSE I CAN. I MEAN, WE'VE GOT A GREATER SENSE OF HUMANITY THAN MANY OTHER POLITICAL PARTY HAS, AND WE SPEAK THAT WAY. BUT IF I GO TO AMERICA TO GET A GREEN CARD, THAT'S JUST ME. IF I GO TO THE UK, THAT'S JUST ME. I GO TO FRANCE, IT'S JUST ME. I CAN'T BRING UNCLE TOM COBLEY AND ALL, AND WE CAN'T AFFORD IT. BUT HERE'S THE POINT ` 31% WHO GOT INTO THE PARENTAL REUNION CATEGORY, THAT IS SPONSORED THEIR PARENTS, HAVE SHOT THROUGH, AND` SO DO WE NEED TO WORK ON THAT ASPECT, THEN? DO WE NEED TO HAVE MORE STRUCTURES IN PLACE? WELL, IN 2012, 2013, WE SAID TO THIS GOVERNMENT, 'LOOK, YOU'RE BEING CHEATED TOO. YOU'RE BEING LIED TO.' THEY JUST DENIED IT. THEN THEY SAID, 'WELL, WE'LL NOW BRING IN A NEW ASSET` MONEY CATEGORY WITH THESE OLDER PEOPLE.' DID THEY POLICE IT? NO. SO WHAT THEY ENGAGED THEMSELVES IN WAS A COMPLICATED EXERCISE OF DENIAL AND DECEPTION, AND IT'S ALL EXPOSED NOW. DO WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT? NO, I DON'T. I DESPAIR AS TO WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THIS COUNTRY, BECAUSE IN SO MANY AREAS, IT MAKES THE JOB OF RECOVERY SO MUCH HARDER NOW. YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT 70,000 NET MIGRATION. YOU'VE COME ON THE SHOW BEFORE AND SAID YOU'D LIKE TO CAP IT AT AROUND THAT 15,000 MARK. 10,000. 10,000 TO 15,000 WAS THE FIGURE. HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT DOING THAT? WELL, YOU BRING IN PEOPLE ` YOU HAVE THE NUMBER ONE PRINCIPLE, WHICH WE'VE ALWAYS HAD AND WHICH EVERY SMART ECONOMY HAS ` BRING IN PEOPLE THAT YOUR ECONOMY NEEDS, NOT WHO NEEDS YOUR ECONOMY. SO WOULD YOU HAVE A POINTS SYSTEM THAT WAS HIGHER, OR HOW WOULD YOU TWEAK IT? IT WOULD BE A SKILLS POINTS SYSTEM. IT WOULD BE ENGLISH LANGUAGE-BASED AS WELL. YOU'VE GOT SO MANY PEOPLE HERE AFTER 15 YEARS CAN'T SPEAK A WORD OF ENGLISH. THEY'RE GETTING DRIVER'S LICENCES. I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY'RE DOING IT, BUT I SUSPECT WHAT'S GOING ON THERE. BUT YOU DO THAT, AND THEN YOU MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS A JOB FOR THEM. YOU KNOW, I'LL GIVE YOU A GOOD EXAMPLE. WE HAVE TREMENDOUS ANIMAL HUSBANDRY IN THIS COUNTRY, AND WE SHOULD HAVE A LEATHER INDUSTRY. HAVE WE EVER TARGETED TO BRING IN LEATHER INDUSTRY SPECIALISTS TO MAKE OURSELVES ONE OF THE FASHION INDUSTRY CAPITALS OF THE WORLD? WE'VE NEVER EVEN TRIED. DO WE NEED MIGRANTS IN THIS COUNTRY, DO YOU THINK? IT'S ONE OF OUR FOUNDING PRINCIPLES THAT THIS COUNTRY WILL ALWAYS NEED TO FILL THE SKILLS AND GAPS IN SCIENCE, EDUCATION, UNIVERSITIES AND WHAT HAVE YOU. AND DO WE NEED THOSE FOREIGN WORKERS? WELL, WHILST WE'LL ALWAYS NEED A CERTAIN DEGREE TO FILL THOSE GAPS, IMMIGRATION SHOULD NEVER BE USED AS AN EXCUSE FOR FAILING TO TRAIN, EDUCATE AND EMPLOY YOUR OWN NEW ZEALANDERS FIRST. IS 15,000 GOING TO BE ENOUGH, THOUGH, TO FILL THOSE GAPS? I MEAN, YOU YOURSELF HAVE BEEN TALKING A LOT ABOUT RURAL AREAS OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS, AND ONE OF THE AREAS, IN HORTICULTURE, THEY'RE CRYING OUT FOR WORKERS. HOW WOULD YOU TARGET AREAS SO IMMIGRANTS WENT TO PLACES LIKE THAT WHERE THEY'RE NEEDED? LOOK, I WAS THE MP IN THE BAY OF PLENTY FOR A LONG TIME, AND THE KIWIFRUIT INDUSTRY WAS BURGEONING BACK THEN. GUESS WHO PICKED ALL THE KIWIFRUIT BACK THEN? YOUNG AND OLDER PEOPLE IN THE BAY OF PLENTY. DO YOU THINK THAT COULD HAPPEN NOW? BUT, NO, THEY WERE DOING IT BACK THEN. WHY ARE THEY NOT DOING IT NOW? AND I TELL YOU WHY, BECAUSE YOU SEE MASSIVE FRAUD COMING IN BY WAY OF WORK GANGS FROM OFFSHORE, COMPANIES SET UP, THEY HIRE UNDER THE TABLE AND NOT PAYING` BUT, SEE, IT'S INTERESTING` NO, NO, LET ME TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENS. NOT PAYING FIRST-WORLD WAGES, AT THE END OF THE SEASON, THEY LIQUIDATE THE COMPANY, DON'T PAY ANY TAX, AND THEN THE GUY SHOOTS THROUGH. SECOND YEAR, BACK, SAME GROUP, SAME GUY, SAME OPERATION, NEW COMPANY, OVER AND OVER AGAIN. A FEW WEEKS AGO, THOUGH, I HAD ON THE SHOW AS WELL SOME WORKERS WHO EMPLOYED FOREIGN WORKERS AND NZ WORKERS, AND THEY SAID THE NZ WORKERS DIDN'T TURN UP TO WORK AND OFTEN WEREN'T IN A FIT STATE TO WORK. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? DON'T WE NEED THESE MIGRANT WORKERS WHO ARE HUNGRY FOR THE WORK? NO, ISN'T IT ASTONISHING? THAT'S THE BILL ENGLISH ARGUMENT, THAT'S THE JOHN KEY ARGUMENT, SAYING THAT NZERS ARE USELESS. HOW COME THE HIGHEST INCOME PEOPLE IN AUSTRALIA BAR ALL IMMIGRATION IN AUSTRALIA ARE NZERS? HOW COME WE'RE SO VALUED IN LONDON BY SO MANY ECONOMIES AND SO MANY BUSINESSES THERE? WHY? BECAUSE WE MUCK IN AND WE KNOW HOW TO GET ALONG WITH PEOPLE. AND SO ON THE ONE HAND WE'VE GOT A TREMENDOUS NZ WORKFORCE THAT USED TO BE ABLE TO, MUM AND DAD AND THE KIDS, BE FOUR OR FIVE ADULT WORKERS IN NZ. WHAT'S CHANGED, THEN, DO YOU THINK? WHAT'S CHANGING IS THEY'RE NOT GETTING PAID ANY MORE PROPERLY. DO YOU THINK THAT'S THE PROBLEM? THAT'S THE PROBLEM. INSTEAD OF GIVING FARMERS A DECENT TAX BREAK AND EMPLOYERS A DECENT TAX BREAK TO EXPORT AND TO PAY THEIR WORKERS FIRST-WORLD WAGES, WE'RE GETTING BY WITH THIS NEW IDEOLOGY ` MASS IMMIGRATION, DRIVE DOWN WAGES, AND WE'LL SOMEHOW ADVANTAGE NZ. NOW, LEE KUAN KNEW SPECIFICALLY WHEN HE BEGAN THE ECONOMIC EXPERIMENT IN SINGAPORE, SAID, 'HIGH WAGES IS WHAT'S GOING TO TAKE ME THERE, NOT LOW WAGES.' IN TERMS OF THE AGEING POPULATION IN NZ, WE DO HAVE AN AGEING POPULATION. DON'T WE NEED THOSE IMMIGRANTS TO COME IN TO FILL IN THE WORKFORCE TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THIS AGEING POPULATION? I'M SO GLAD YOU RAISED THAT. I'M SURE YOU ARE. I'M SO GLAD YOU RAISED THAT, BECAUSE YOU'D THINK THAT, WOULDN'T YOU? YOU WOULD THINK A TARGETED IMMIGRATION PROGRAMME WOULD BE BRINGING THE AVERAGE AGE DOWN. UH-UH. THE TWO HIGH CATEGORIES ARE THE VERY YOUNG ` PRESCHOOL, I MEAN PRE WORKING IN THE WORKFORCE ` AND GUESS WHAT, THOSE THAT ARE 55, 60 AND OLDER ` ARE THE TWO HIGHEST CATEGORIES COMING IN. AND 87,000 HAVE COME HERE IN THE LAST 15 YEARS, GOT IMMEDIATELY MEDICAL BENEFITS AND WITHIN 10 YEARS ` JUST 10 YEARS ` WHETHER THEY PAID ANY TAX OR NOT, FULL SUPER. WHAT ECONOMY IN THE WORLD DOES THAT, AND HOW CAN WE AFFORD IT? NOW, IF YOU HAD A TARGETED IMMIGRATION POLICY, AND THAT'S THE ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE YOU'VE GIVEN IN YOUR QUESTION, THAT IT'S NOT TARGETED, INSTEAD OF DRIVING THE AVERAGE AGE DOWN, IT'S DRIVING IT UP. ONE OF THE THINGS I ALSO WANTED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT WAS AN INTERESTING IDEA I WAS READING ABOUT OF TAKING GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND PUTTING THEM INTO THE REGIONS. MM. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, AND WHAT DEPARTMENTS DO YOU THINK THAT COULD WORK FOR? WELL, YOU KNOW, WHY HAS THE DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION GOT MASSIVE INVESTMENT IN WELLINGTON? WHERE DO YOU THINK IT COULD GO TO? GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE. OUT IN THE PROVINCES WHERE CONSERVATION'S REQUIRED. SO WHAT'S AN EXAMPLE? THERE'S ONE. FORESTRY IS ANOTHER ONE. FOR EXAMPLE, THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT HAS COMPUTERISED SORT OF SKILLS WHICH COULD BE IN ANY PROVINCIAL CITY IN THIS COUNTRY. YOU'VE GOT IRD, WHICH USED TO BE` IT SHOULD BE SPLIT FAR MORE WIDELY, IN THIS COMPUTERISED AGE, RIGHT AROUND THE COUNTRY. AND YOU GO TO NORWAY, ONE OF THE WORLD'S GREAT ECONOMIES, OSLO HAS BARELY DRIVEN BECAUSE WHEN IT COMES TO THE THING THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THEY ARE SAYING, 'NO, YOU'RE NOT COMING TO OSLO. PUT IT SOMEWHERE AROUND NORWAY.' BECAUSE ONE OF THE INTERESTING EXAMPLES, I GUESS, IS THE BBC. THEY'VE MOVED IT FROM LONDON TO MANCHESTER. DO YOU THINK THAT MIGHT WORK FOR TVNZ AS WELL? WELL, WHERE'S FOX NEWS IN AMERICA? IS IT IN NEW YORK? NO. IS IT IN WASHINGTON? NO. DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHERE THAT COULD HAPPEN? WELL, THE WAY THIS GOVERNMENT AND FORMER GOVERNMENTS HAVE BEHAVED IN RECENT YEARS, IT'S AS THOUGH THEY'D NEVER HEARD OF COMPUTERISATION. WHEN THE VERY UTILITY THAT ARRIVED IN OUR ECONOMY TO HELP US DO THAT HAPPENED, NO, THEY KEPT ON CENTRALISING. NOW WE WANT THE PROVINCES WHO PAY MOST OF THE TAXES ANYWAY, WHO CREATE THE GREAT EXPORT WEALTH OF NZ TO GET A FAIR GO. ANOTHER TOPIC THAT'S BEEN DOMINATING THIS WEEK HAS BEEN THE SURPLUS, WHICH NATIONAL HAVE BEEN VERY KEEN TO TALK ABOUT. HOW DO YOU THINK THAT THAT MONEY SHOULD BE SPENT? IS IT TIME FOR A TAX CUT? WELL, THE STATE OF SURPLUS IS A MASSIVE FRAUD ON THE NZ PEOPLE, AND I CANNOT BELIEVE THE NUMBER OF JOURNALISTS WHO ARE REPEATING IT. I'LL TELL YOU, FOR EXAMPLE` YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT NUMBER OR THAT FIGURE? OF COURSE I DON'T BELIEVE THAT NUMBER, BECAUSE THE POLICE FORCE NUMBERS WERE CAPPED IN 2010 AND WE'VE GONE DOWN IN POLICE NUMBERS PER CAPITA, NOT UP. BUT YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THE SURPLUS NUMBERS? NO, I DON'T. THAT'S THE QUESTION. NO, I DON'T, BECAUSE WHAT MR KEY AND OTHERS HAVE PROMISED THEY'VE NOT DELIVERED ON. TAKE, FOR EXAMPLE, HEALTH FUNDING. THEY KEEP ON USING THESE BILLION-DOLLAR FIGURES, BUT` SO IS THAT WHERE YOU'D WANT TO SPEND IT? WELL, NEARLY EVERY DISTRICT HEALTH BOARD IS IN SERIOUS DEBT, IS IN TROUBLE, SO IT'S ALL THIS UNDERFUNDING. EDUCATORS ARE IN TROUBLE. TERTIARY INSTITUTIONS ARE HARD UP AGAINST IT. AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THIS COUNTRY, THE ROADING IN AUCKLAND AND ALL THE OTHER PLANS THAT HAVE TO BE PUT TOGETHER, EVERY ONE OF THEM IS MASSIVELY UNDERFUNDED, AND YOU'VE GOT A GUY HERE THAT HE REMINDS ME OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE WAY BACK ` I WASN'T ALIVE AT THAT TIME ` IN THE GREAT DEPRESSION. HE WAS BALANCING THE BOOKS, YES, CERTAINLY, BUT THE COUNTRY WAS GOING TO HELL IN A HANDBASKET, AND THERE HE IS BOASTING, 'I'VE GOT A $1.8 BILLION SURPLUS.' AND I SAY TO HIM, 'HOW MANY POLICE ARE YOU SHORT? HOW MANY DOCTORS ARE YOU SHORT? HOW MANY DHBS ARE ALL IN DEBT?' AND HE'S NOT INTERESTED IN ANSWERING. SO YOU'D DIVVY THOSE UP, AND THAT'S HOW YOU'D SPEND IT IF YOU WERE IN CHARGE AND HAD INFLUENCE IN THE DECISION? SO I'M SAYING IT'S A MIRAGE. THE PROBLEM WITH OUR ECONOMY, AND HERE'S THE COMPELLING PROOF WHICH BRINGS THIS QUESTION OF THE SURPLUS INTO LINE WITH YOUR QUESTION ON IMMIGRATION, OUR GDP PER PERSON IS GOING DOWN, NOT UP. WE'VE TAKEN ON AN EXTRA 470,000 PEOPLE, AND WHILST THE GDP HAS GROWN SOME, IT HASN'T GROWN COMMENSURATE WITH THAT INCREASE. NOW, HERE'S THE NUB. IF WE BUT DOUBLE OUR GDP BY 2050, 34 YEARS' TIME, WE WILL HAVE THE SAME COST STRUCTURE AS WE'VE GOT NOW IF WE DON'T CHANGE THE POPULATION MIX. BUT IF YOU MASS IMMIGRATE INTO THIS COUNTRY, WE'RE JUST GOING TO BE ON A SLIDE TO A GREAT AND GROWING DISASTER. SEND US YOUR THOUGHTS, AND IF YOU LIVE OUTSIDE OF WELLINGTON, TELL US WHICH GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT YOU'D LIKE TO ADOPT FOR YOUR HOMETOWN. WE'RE ON TWITTER AT NZQANDDA. YOU CAN EMAIL US AT Q+A AT TVNZ.CO.NZ, OR TEXT YOUR THOUGHTS AND FIRST NAME TO 2211. KEEP THEM BRIEF. EACH TEXT COSTS 50 CENTS. WE'LL BRING IN OUR PANEL AFTER THE BREAK, AND LATER ` A GROUP CAMPAIGNING FOR MORE MARIJUANA-BASED MEDICINES HAD A BIG WIN THIS WEEK, AND RYAN BOSWELL HAS THAT STORY COMING UP. IT'S NOT A VICTORY TO SEE THEM DOING A BIT OF TINKERING AROUND THE EDGES. THEY'VE BEEN IN ABSOLUTE DENIAL. THEY'VE MISLED THE COUNTRY GROSSLY. THEY'VE GIVEN ALL SORTS OF ASSURANCES THAT WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS NOT TRUE, AND NOW THEY ARE HAVING TO ADMIT IT. NZ FIRST LEADER WINSTON PETERS THERE. LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL. Is the government got spooked on these immigration numbers? We have seen a big jump in the last 12 months. Immigration numbers do fluctuate. If we look 10 years ago, the skilled migrant category has only increased a bit. We have really seen the big jump in the last few years. It is the pressure on housing and infrastructure. The combination has meant they have had to do something. Doing something for two years is good. They can come out the other side of the election and reassess. There is a lot more to it then the numbers. Is it more than tinkering? In terms of what they are going to do? I am quite concerned When we are talking about immigration. We wade into xenophobia. Winston was talking about having screening for things like drivers licenses, which goes into categorisation of what an immigrant is. We need to confront racism. We also need to confront reality. There is serious pressure on housing. On the face of the surplus, something is going wrong. Have you had a look at the English test? It is hard. For someone who has spoken English and makes a living off it, they would really struggle. Winston Peters' calling card has been that. This is what is behind bricks and the rise of Donald Trump. It is a big picture. it has taken a very long time and he will capitalise on it. We have a surplus. Go to Australia, they are projecting deficits for the next four years. We have been through a massive earthquake in a slump in our prime export, Dairy. Our economy is growing fast given those barriers. We need to invest in infrastructure, schools and roads. What do you make of his dream figure, 10- 15,000? realistic? I don't know what the statistical backing as for that figure. There needs to be some skill base. John Keys take is it is a good thing that people are coming in. There is his line, but we know how the immigration department set those bars. Changing the points from 140 to 160 in the skilled migrant category, we need to know how they are defining a skill. Are they writing off a lot of tradespeople that we do need in certain industries? We need to see the fine detail. We wouldn't want just more lawyers all the professions that need high-level tertiary education. Is it in any way in line of what Winston is saying? If you put against the United States again posting defecits, we are in a good position. They need to pay people more to stay here. They need to get people here. All the major companies are going offshore. We need to get the talented engineers and overseers. There is not necessarily a bad thing, but we want to see a catchup. The government is right to pause it. Undoubtedly he is looking at the polls. There was an interview with John Key, and Merkel'sapproval ratings had gone through the floor. He has given to addresses I have been at. He is trying to guard against a breakdown and social stability. He is being mindful of the refugee situation, making sure they have the right ones. Basically absorbing and giving them good treatment. I think it is an open economy, but you do worry about New Zealanders themselves. There is concern in the national party heartland. They want the relatives and children to be housed. It is not a good book that we are shutting our doors. Cor: look. Immigrants contribute to our growth. Potentially having more lawyers in the mix, I come from a class of talented lawyers who are struggling to find a job. There are many New Zealanders who are struggling to find jobs. They have masters degrees. The surplus, Winston Peters says there isn't one. What should the government be doing? Is it a false economy? I wouldn't call It that. The government need to be careful about giving tax cuts. They want to look like they are setting themselves up for the next election. We know who benefits most from tax cuts. In the 2014 election, even though the mood of the boardroom was with John Key, business wanted to see the government address that, and they haven't done it yet. Are tax cuts still a vote winner? Iit is interesting that those social concerns came out this year. There is concern around homelessness and the social dis-ease. Do we have an economy where people get a fair go or is it rigged against younger people? If the government invests in infrastructure, part of the surplus will go into that. Winston was getting at that. People will be looking for who is taking us through in a sensible way. Your thoughts about moving departments to regions? This is a focus in the local government elections about whether we can move people out of Wellington and Auckland. Wellington is a region. It is a bit like Canberra. There is its regional policy. It isn't like London. It is not like Auckland. Wellington is that driver. The numbers show that they are leaving Wellington. We're seeing 300 more workers and the Bay of Plenty, in the Waikato. AFTER THE BREAK ` HEADLINE REPORTER RYAN BOSWELL TALKED TO HELEN KELLY ABOUT HER LIFE AND POLITICS JUST TWO WEEKS AGO. THAT INTERVIEW COMING UP AFTER THE BREAK. CAMPAIGNERS FOR MEDICINAL CANNABIS PRESENTED A 17,000-STRONG PETITION TO PARLIAMENT THIS WEEK, CALLING FOR MORE PRODUCTS TO BE MADE AVAILABLE. ASSOCIATE HEALTH MINISTER PETER DUNNE HAS BEEN CLEAR ON HIS POSITION. HE IS LOOKING AT THE RESEARCH THAT'S BEING DONE OVERSEAS AND WILL MAKE PRODUCTS AVAILABLE IF PROVEN TO BE SAFE AND EFFECTIVE. BUT THERE IS ANOTHER GROUP OF CAMPAIGNERS WORKING TO GET PRODUCTS APPROVED UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM, AND THEY HAD THEIR OWN VICTORY THIS WEEK. RYAN BOSWELL HAS THE STORY. DR HUHANA HICKEY IS WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL A HIGH ACHIEVER. SHE WAS THE FIRST MAORI WOMAN TO GET A PHD FROM WAIKATO UNIVERSITY, THE FIRST DISABLED PERSON TOO. SHE'S A RESEARCH FELLOW AT AUT AND DOES IT ALL WHILE PUTTING UP WITH THE DEBILITATING PAIN OF HER MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS. GOOD BOY. DO YOU WANNA TAKE IT? MS AFFECTS THE CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM, AND OPIATES ARE OFTEN USED TO COUNTER THE NEAR CONSTANT PAIN. BACK IN FEBRUARY, THE MINISTRY OF HEALTH GAVE HER SIGN-OFF TO USE A MARIJUANA-BASED MEDICINE CALLED SATIVEX. SO I LIVE. I GO OUT AND ENJOY RESTAURANTS AGAIN. I GO ENJOY COMPANY AGAIN. AND I DIDN'T GO OUT AFTER FOUR BECAUSE I JUST COULDN'T FUNCTION. MY BODY WOULD BE IN SPASM, I'D BE IN SEVERE PAIN, I'D BE, YOU KNOW, JUST CRAMPING ALL THROUGH MY MUSCLES, EVERYTHING ELSE. I DON'T HAVE ANY OF THAT. IT'S THE ONLY MARIJUANA-BASED PHARMACEUTICAL-GRADE PRODUCT THAT DOESN'T NEED APPROVAL BY THE ASSOCIATE HEALTH MINISTER, PETER DUNNE. BUT IT COSTS $1200 A MONTH, AND THAT'S BEEN SENDING DR HICKEY BROKE. THE OVERDRAFT IS GETTING UP TO 5000. THE KIWISAVER WAS 6000. THAT'S ALL GONE. IT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING ABLE TO GO AND SEE MY GRANDSON IN AUSTRALIA OR JUST PAYING FOR MY MEDS, SO I PAY FOR MY MEDS. BUT THIS WEEK SHE GOT THE NEWS SHE'D BEEN WAITING FOR ` APPROVAL TO USE TILRAY, A NEW MEDICAL MARIJUANA PILL THAT'S DEVELOPED IN CANADA AND IMPORTED THROUGH AUSTRALIA. EVEN BETTER ` IT'S HALF THE PRICE OF SATIVEX. IT APPEARS TO BE A VERY GOOD ALTERNATIVE. AND IT'S NOT A SPRAY, SO I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE MUCOSAL DAMAGE THAT HAPPENS WITH SPRAY FORM. THIS NOW MEANS THAT PETER DUNNE HAS GIVEN PERMISSION TO JUST THREE NZERS TO USE A MEDICAL MARIJUANA PRODUCT THAT'S NOT PHARMACEUTICAL-GRADE. HIS OFFICE SAYS THE MINISTER ONLY GOES ON THE ADVICE PUT FORWARD BY OFFICIALS AT THE MINISTRY. GREAT NEWS. IT'S BEEN A LONG WHILE COMING. SHANE LE BRUN'S BEEN HELPING HUHANA HICKEY THROUGH HIS NEW MEDICAL MARIJUANA CHARITY, WHICH AIMS TO HAVE TO HAVE DRUGS APPROVED WORKING WITHIN THE CURRENT SYSTEM. HE'S USED TO A FIGHT; HE'S A FORMER SOLDIER. HE'S ALSO A NATIONAL PARTY VOTER. WE CAN FUNDRAISE FOR LEGAL MEDICINES. WE CAN ADVOCATE FOR ALTERNATIVE PRODUCTS, WHICH, HOPEFULLY, ARE CHEAPER. HE HOPES THIS LATEST DECISION WILL ENCOURAGE DOCTORS TO ADVOCATE FOR MARIJUANA-BASED DRUGS MORE OFTEN. SATIVEX HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A FEW YEARS NOW, AND THERE'S ONLY 140-ODD PEOPLE WHO HAVE EVER BEEN PRESCRIBED IT. AND THAT'S OUT OF A HUGE POPULATION WHO COULD BENEFIT, SO WE'RE GONNA GET THROUGH AS MANY APPLICATIONS AS WE CAN IN THE NEXT YEAR. ONCE WE'VE GOT THIS FIRST ONE DONE WITH TILRAY, I'M EXPECTING IT'S GONNA BE MUCH EASIER TO GET FURTHER APPLICATIONS FOR TILRAY. THIS PLANT IS MEDICINE. IT'S A GIFT TO US FROM THE EARTH. MAY WE HONOUR THE GIFT. AND MAY ALL THOSE IN NEED OF HEALING FIND THE RELIEF THEY SEEK. KIA ORA. THIS WEEK, NELSON MOTHER ROSE RENTON LEAD A MARCH TO PARLIAMENT, DEMANDING CHANGE. HE'S AN INCREDIBLY STRONG YOUNG MAN. HE'S A FIGHTER. AND HE KNOWS THAT WE WILL FIGHT FOR WHAT HE NEEDS. SHE FOUGHT FOR HER SON, ALEX (19), TO BE GIVEN A MEDICAL MARIJUANA PRODUCT TO HELP WITH A TYPE OF PROLONGED SEIZURE. IT NEEDED TO BE APPROVED BY THE MINISTRY AND THEN SIGNED OFF BY PETER DUNNE. THE SYSTEM WAS HARD WORK. ANYONE THAT DIDN'T HAVE A TENACIOUS PERSONALITY LIKE ME WOULD HAVE STOPPED WELL BEFORE. SHE GOT THAT APPROVAL, AND ALEX BECAME THE FIRST NZER TO BE TREATED WITH MEDICINAL CANNABIS IN HOSPITAL. SADLY, ONLY WEEKS LATER, HE PASSED AWAY. NOW ROSE WANTS TO HELP OTHERS, COLLECTING 17,000 SIGNATURES CALLING FOR CANNABIS TO BE DECRIMINALISED AND TREATED AS A HEALTH PRODUCT. RIGHT NOW TODAY, IT'S ABOUT THE SICK AND THE NEEDY. AND THAT'S WHAT THIS ACCESS IS GONNA GET ` IS DOCTORS ARE ABLE TO DISCUSS IT WITH THEIR PATIENTS, AND THAT RELATIONSHIP, BY PRESCRIPTION, SO REGULATED, NOT A FREE-FOR-ALL. A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE HERE WILL BE BACKING YOU SIMPLY FOR THE HIGH NOT FOR THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA PRODUCT. I GUESS IT AMAZES ME THAT YOU CAN GET HIGH ON MORPHINE, BUT GETTING HIGH ON CANNABIS IS SEEN AS SOMETHING DANGEROUS. WE CAN OVERDOSE ON MORPHINE, SO GETTING HIGH ON MORPHINE IS DANGEROUS. GETTING HIGH ON CANNABIS WILL JUST MAKE YOU SLEEPY, HUNGRY AND LAUGH. BEFORE HELEN KELLY DIED ON FRIDAY, SHE WAS VERY OPEN ABOUT USING CANNABIS TO COPE WITH PAIN. IN HER LAST INTERVIEW TWO WEEKS AGO, SHE SUGGESTED A CITIZEN-INITIATED REFERENDUM'S NEEDED. THEN WE NEED TO GET 800 VOLUNTEERS WHO WILL GET 80 SIGNATURES EACH. I MEAN, A PREFERENCE, AS I SAY, WOULD BE TO HAVE A BILL. ACTUALLY, A PREFERENCE WOULD BE FOR THE GOVERNMENT JUST TO GROW UP AND PASS THE LEGISLATION. EVEN IF IT'S MEDICAL. JUST BLOODY WELL DO IT, YOU KNOW. AND THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE WHO WOULD BENEFIT FROM IT. HUHANA HICKEY HAD SUPPORTED HER FRIEND, HELEN, USING CANNABIS, GIVEN HER PROGNOSIS. AND WHILE SHE AGREES WITH REFORM AND OPENING THE DOOR, SHE ALSO WANTS REGULATION, HUHANA HICKEY PLEADING WITH THE GOVERNMENT TO KEEP THE COSTS OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA DOWN FOR ALL SO PEOPLE AREN'T FORCED TO TURN TO THE RAW PRODUCT THAT'S UNTESTED. BECAUSE I WANT TO KNOW WHAT I'M GETTING. I DON'T WANT TO SHOOT IN THE DARK WITH A PRODUCT. I NEED TO KNOW THAT PRODUCT IS SAFE FOR ME AND WILL ADDRESS MY NEEDS ` MY MEDICAL NEEDS. SO FOR ME, I WOULD RATHER GO WITH A PRODUCT THAT I CAN TRUST. AND RYAN BOSWELL INTERVIEWED HELEN KELLY FOR THAT STORY, JUST TWO WEEKS AGO. HELEN KELLY STARTED OUT AS A TEACHER BUT SOON BECAME INVOLVED IN THE UNION MOVEMENT, JUST LIKE HER PARENTS. AS HEAD OF THE CTU, SHE WAS A REGULAR PANELLIST ON THIS PROGRAMME BUT SHE WAS FORCED TO RESIGN LAST YEAR TO FIGHT HER OWN PRIVATE BATTLE AGAINST CANCER. EVERY DAY, SOMEONE COMES TO MY HOUSE AND LOOKS AFTER ME. I MEAN, HOW GOOD IS THAT? HOW BEAUTIFUL IS THAT? I WAKE UP IN THE MORNING. 9 O'CLOCK SOMEONE KNOCKS ON THE DOOR. 'HI.' ONE OF MY MATES. 'WE'LL LOOK AFTER YOU. WANT A CUP OF TEA?' HAVE YOU HAD LOTS OF TIME TO REFLECT? DO YOU DO MUCH REFLECTING? YEAH, YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR LIFE AND WHO YOU WANT TO LEAVE A NOTE FOR AND THINGS LIKE THAT. YEAH, I THINK IT'S A GOOD TIME, IN A WAY, BEING ABLE TO SAY GOODBYE TO PEOPLE AND WHAT THEY MEAN TO YOU. YOU KNOW, LIKE THIS WEEK, WE'VE GOT ALL THE FORESTRY AND PIKE FAMILIES HERE. THEY'VE COME ON THEIR OWN DRIVE TO CHECK ON ME. ISN'T THAT GORGEOUS? I MEAN, PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD BIG FIGHTS WITHIN THIS JOB. THERE'S GENUINE CONCERN FOR MY HEALTH, YOU KNOW? DO YOU FEEL GOOD ABOUT THAT? THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU PLAYED THIS GAME OF POLITICS AND YOU'VE GONE INTO SOME PRETTY HEAVY BATTLES. I'LL NEVER FORGET THE ONE WITH PETER JACKSON. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, PEOPLE STILL RESPECT YOU AND STILL VALUE YOU. YEAH, I'M GRATEFUL FOR THAT. AND I THINK IT'S BECAUSE THE WORK WE'RE DOING IS OF HIGH VALUE. AND THEY KNOW THAT. AND WE'RE A VALUES-BASED MOVEMENT WHO WILL NEVER CHANGE THOSE VALUES. BETTER WAGES, SAFER CONDITIONS, RESPECT AND DIGNITY AT WORK. SO ALL OF THAT HAS BUILT UP THAT RESPECT. AND I'M GLAD THAT THE EMPLOYERS` I MEAN, THEY'RE ALWAYS CIVILISED. THIS IS BULLSHIT THAT WE SPEND OUR TIME FIGHTING EACH OTHER. WE HAVE A LOT OF DISAGREEMENTS AROUND THE STRUCTURE OF THE ECONOMY AND HOW WAGES ARE SET AND EVERYTHING, BUT WE DON'T DISRESPECT EACH OTHER. UNION RIGHTS ARE UNDER ATTACK. THE PROBLEM WITH THE UNION MOVEMENT IS THEY'RE TOO FOCUSED ON LEADERSHIP RATHER THAN VALUES. AND, ACTUALLY, IT'S THE VALUES THAT PEOPLE REFLECT. OH YEAH, THE UNIONS, THEY PROTECT PEOPLE'S WORK, THEY DON'T WANT THE CONDITIONS CUT, THEY FOUGHT FOR FOUR WEEKS' LEAVE, THEY GOT TIME AND A HALF, YOU KNOW. THAT'S WHAT THE UNIONS DO, NOT JUST, 'OH, THAT HELEN KELLY. SHE'S THE LEADER OF THE UNIONS.' AND THERE IS AN OBSESSION IN NZ WITH LEADERSHIP. I MEAN, LOOK AT POLITICS HERE. 'WHO'S GONNA BE A LEADER? WHO'S GONNA BE A LEADER?' NOT ABOUT 'WHAT DO YOU STAND FOR? WHAT ARE YOUR VALUES?' DO YOU THINK LABOUR NEEDS TO LEARN A THING OR TWO? I THINK LABOUR'S VALUES NEED TO BE SPELLED OUT LOUD. AND THAT'S THE KEY TO THEM WINNING THE NEXT ELECTION. AT THE MOMENT SOME OF THEIR VALUES, MESSAGES COME ACROSS AS CONFUSED. LIKE THEIR MESSAGE ON CANNABIS IS VERY CONFUSED, BUT THAT'S NOT THE MAIN THING. THEIR MESSAGE ON INDUSTRIAL RIGHTS IS CONFUSED. I THINK THEIR VALUES ARE VERY STRONG. I'M READING THEIR BOOK, 100 YEARS OF THEIR HISTORY, AND IT'S SO INTERESTING HOW THEY DEVELOPED ALL THOSE POLICIES, AND THEY'RE ALL HISTORIC. SEEING THAT THEY HAD A JOB TO DO ` FREE TERTIARY EDUCATION, FREE HEALTH, HOUSING, WHATEVER ` THEY DID ALL THAT. THEY DID THE SECOND STAGE. THEY'RE NOW ON TO FINISHING THE JOB, IN MY VIEW. WHAT DOES EDUCATION LOOK LIKE WHEN IT'S FINISHED. THEY'VE GOT THIS LEGACY. AND I HOPE THOSE REFLECT THEIR VALUES. AND NOT NECESSARILY A CHANGE OF LEADERSHIP FOR ANDREW LITTLE? NO, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE ISSUE. I DON'T THINK LEADERSHIP IS THE ISSUE. I THINK HE'S GOT THE VALUES, PROPOSITIONS STRONGLY. WE'VE GOT TO GET THEM OUT THERE, AND THEY'VE GOT TO BE CONSISTENT. WHO WOULD CUT WAGES... YOU'RE STILL SO PASSIONATE ABOUT POLITICS AND THE FUTURE. I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS COUNTRY AND THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE. AND I'M WORRIED ABOUT THEM. I'M WORRIED ABOUT THE MEAT WORKERS ` WHAT OF THEIR FUTURE? DO WE JUST SAY TO THEM, 'PACK IT IN, BOYS. TAKE WHAT THEY'RE GIVING YOU. 'NOBODY CAN HELP YOU. 'TAKE THE CRUMBS ON THE TABLE AND PROTECT WHAT YOU'VE GOT.' OR DO WE SAY, 'NO, ACTUALLY. 'THIS IS A COMPANY THAT'S ALWAYS TREATED YOU BADLY, 'AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO CONTINUE TO LET IT HAPPEN. 'WE'RE GONNA STICK TOGETHER AND CHANGE THE RULES, THE LAW.' THAT'S WHY I'M EXCITED ABOUT LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS. ARE YOU GONNA VOTE? YEAH. I'D BETTER GET MY ACT TOGETHER, RIGHT? BUT I WANT EVERYONE TO VOTE IN THOSE WHANGANUI WAIROA. WE'VE GOT CANDIDATES STANDING. AND THE IDEA IS, IF WE GET INTO THOSE COUNCILS, WE SAY TO COMPANIES LIKE AFCO, 'YOU'RE NOT GONNA DUMP YOUR WASTE IN OUR RIVERS 'WITHOUT COMPLYING WITH THE PERMITS. 'YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET WATER WITHOUT LOOKING AFTER THE PEOPLE 'THAT LIVE HERE ` THAT OWN THE WATER.' WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED FROM YOUR LIFE? HMM. IT'S A BIG QUESTION, ISN'T IT? IT'S A BIG QUESTION. WHAT I'VE LEARNED FROM MY LIFE IS THAT KINDNESS GOES A LONG WAY. AND IF PEOPLE WERE JUST KINDER TO EACH OTHER... YOU LOOK AT A YOUNG PERSON WHO'S IN TROUBLE. IF YOU'RE JUST KIND TO THEM, GIVE THEM OPPORTUNITIES, GIVE THEM TRAINING, LOOK AFTER THEM, MAKE SURE THEY'VE GOT A NICE HOUSE, THAT THEY KNOW THEY'VE LOVED, THEY'LL JUST THRIVE NO MATTER WHAT THEIR BACKGROUND IS OR WHAT THEIR HISTORY IS. THAT'S WHY I HATE THIS DONALD TRUMP THING. HE'S SO UNKIND. I WANT PEOPLE JUST TO BE KIND. AND THAT MIGHT BE COMPLETELY NAIVE, BUT IT WOULD MAKE A HELL OF A DIFFERENCE. HELEN KELLY SPEAKING TO RYAN BOSWELL THERE. LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL. Medical marijuana a big breakthrough today with the second medicine coming through. It is about time. Considering we can do things like prostitution law reform and civil union and marriage equality, I think it is interesting that we're taking so long on us, especially given some of the states are way ahead. You touched on this Chloe. There are legitimate people wanting at the legitimate reasons and the bong brigade are ruining it. There are people out there who need it as medicine. And there are certain people who have aligned themselves with the movement who bring it down into disrepute, and those be put into shout loudest. What will Helen Kelley's legacy be? She is a big loss. She is a big loss. And she stood for things that we don't hear enough about to me the standout campaigns around forestry and safety in the workplace were big issues, and she leveraged the Pike River disaster and stayed with the families. And in the business sector when she started on the campaigns, there was a bit of 'that woman' mentality. But it came round. She formed commendations and shifted the dial and that means a lot to me. I had the pleasure of going to New York with her after the partnership Forum in 2009, and we went to the Waldorf and had a drink, and she had just been shopping in Bloomingdale's. She came from a family of diehard unionists and she said her father would be rolling in the grave if he say this. But she had a little escapade and do something for a wee while. Many people picked her as a politician, aand it never happened. She felt it would be more effective outside. That is where she would have gone if she continued. Many people said she would be the next woman after Helen Clark. So that may have been on the cards, but the me, I was on the panel with her sometime ago, aand she was able to hold the ground. For everyone. She championed issues all New Zealanders, irrespective if they were union members or not. And that is the beauty of our system. And that will be one of the legacies. And when you look at attitudes to unions, we see that New Zealanders feel that trade unions Are good to have. They don't see them as bully organisations, and she has been a big part of that attitude change. She said politics is on about the leader but the message. She represents the paradigms shift. And I have massive respect for her, and many people thought she would end up leading Labour after dealing with the health issues, and it is a massive loss for New Zealand to have her pass. But he wants to stand the kindness and people and I think that is incredible ideals for us to hold especially in a world of post-truth politics. We need more hesitant politicians. She downplays the leadership that she would have brought and the leadership deficit there is an Labour. She chose to use her time continuing to work and catch up on her work and say goodbye. But she was destined for Labour. And following Helen Clark. The contradict the point Helen made about people in leadership, with her gone in the union movement, iit needs a new figurehead leader. She was the figurehead, but there has been different leaders, such as those who aren't charismatic but good leaders. She was in good accommodating government, and maybe her predecessor got more than. But she was a conscience who got things out there. I think she would have been a better politician in the long run. THE PANEL WILL BE BACK AFTER THE BREAK, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A TUMULTUOUS WEEK ON THE US CAMPAIGN TRAIL. CAN TRUMP COMEBACK FROM THIS LATEST SCANDAL? IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE CAN JUST SWEEP UNDER THE RUG AS JUST ANOTHER DISTURBING FOOTNOTE IN A SAD ELECTION SEASON, BECAUSE THIS WAS NOT JUST A LEWD CONVERSATION, THIS WASN'T JUST LOCKER ROOM BANTER. THIS WAS A POWERFUL INDIVIDUAL, SPEAKING FREELY AND OPENLY ABOUT SEXUALLY PREDATORY BEHAVIOUR. THESE VICIOUS CLAIMS ABOUT ME OF INAPPROPRIATE CONDUCT WITH WOMEN ARE TOTALLY AND ABSOLUTELY FALSE. CROWD CHEERS AND THE CLINTONS KNOW IT, AND THEY KNOW IT VERY WELL. THESE CLAIMS ARE ALL FABRICATED. THEY'RE PURE FICTION, AND THEY'RE OUTRIGHT LIES. REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE DONALD TRUMP ON THE FIGHT BACK AFTER WHAT CAN ONLY BE SEEN AS A DISASTROUS WEEK FOR HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. Welcome to Jessica mutch this has to be the death knell? You can't sweep those comments aside and say they are locker room banter. As woman, we admit there has to be a certain amount of that and that does happen, but this was bragging about sexual assault and this is the difference. We have heard is lewd comments are for and you can set aside a bit but the sexual assault is just disgusting and then this captivated people. We should have expected this from what we have seen. Such is the walls, Mexico, should we be surprised? I suppose it is surprising that the Republicans nominated him in the first place they should have done the background checks. Maybe they just went with him got it with high-profile. This is the establishments worst-case scenario. And I can only hope that it doesn't result in fallout down the ticket and they lose the house. And they might come out of it and re-establish themselves as the party beyond the lewd comments and seen a xenophobia Hillary Clinton will go into the third debate thinking that they have it in the bag. But the Republican guys out there and back state America will still vote firm. But even in Bible Belt, this is a step too far. I find it incredibly interesting that this was the tipping point. And we can thank Donald Trump are bringing these conversations the light because he is a manifesto of a lot of grotesque things of our modern society. And he is forcing their hands to have conversations about misogyny and racism. It is unfortunate that this is the tipping point, and we've seen a lot of conversations from high officers who now feel they need to separate themselves by saying they had a father of two young girls. It is disappointing that we have the preface those statements were saying we have a connection to woman in our lives. And that is what Obama said when is no pride stepping aside now to the 11th hour. It has all been about Trump and his candles. But this has been are far tthree from scandals from Clinton. Clinton is coming to the presidency untested on e-mails. She doesn't hold press conferences with the team they go with her. They had to roll and orange down the plane aisle to get an idiotic response. And we saw the same thing which Secretary of State. She she controls things and once questions she knows in advance. And I speak more from someone who wants to be a president. Clinton foundation issue. Cronyism especially how she got their over Bernie. And she will come through without having any grilling. But someone like Donald Trump can go as far as this, what does this say about America's feelings on Dynasty's?> we just watched Michelle Obama talking about Dynasty's, and people were saying she would be a good politician, but she has no background. But it's interesting to look at Trump and what he has done as some of the Brexit is that there is a large number of people who are still hurting after the GFC. Wall Street and the elites, which the Clintons are, and different words that are given to meetings with Goldman Sachs I think there are bigger issues. You into a Ted Cruz rally, if they were still on the run, this might be a close race. We would be having a different debate. And those issues are still there, but because of the Trump actor, that has gone so far. All of these things have come out before and there is a question of timing, but here's tap into some interesting issues. People going into the rallies a mad and we don't see that in New Zealand with huge groups of thousands of people. And he has picked up on the madness. But if he does go into the present, hey will investigate Clinton Bigly. OUR POLITICAL HISTORY AFTER THE BREAK. IT'S 1993, AND WINSTON PETERS HAS LAUNCHED HIS NZ FIRST PARTY. ITS KEY POLICY? CURBING IMMIGRATION. THAT'S NEXT. YOUR FEEDBACK NOW. YOU HAD A LOT TO SAY FOLLOWING OUR INTERVIEW WITH WINSTON PETERS ON IMMIGRATION, SURPLUS AND HOUSING OUR GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS IN OUR REGIONS. MATT TWEETED ` STEPHEN MAIRE POSTED ON OUR FACEBOOK PAGE THAT ` PATRICIA BERWICK EMAILED THAT THE DEPARTMENT SHE WOULD LIKE IN PICTON IS DOC. FINALLY REGARDING HELEN KELLY, MARY-ANN DE KORT TWEETED ` 1993 WAS AN INTERESTING YEAR IN NZ POLITICS. AND WINSTON PETERS LAUNCHED HIS NZ FIRST PARTY. A KEY CAMPAIGN POLICY ` CONTROLS ON IMMIGRATION. HERE HE IS IN TE KUITI, JIM BOLGER COUNTRY, THAT YEAR. GIDDAY. HOW ARE YOU? WINSTON PETERS ALREADY CAMPAIGNING. HE'S WELL AWARE THAT NZ FIRST WILL HAVE AT LEAST A HANDFUL OF SEATS IN THE MMP PARLIAMENT ` A TASTY MORSEL FOR PARTIES NEEDING A COALITION PARTNER. BUT WINSTON PETER'S POLICIES MAY BE UNPALATABLE. WE'RE UNDERVALUING OUR OWN CITIZENS. UNDERVALUING OUR OWN CITIZENS WHILE OUR GOVERNMENT SPARES NO EFFORT TO MAKE NZ A PARADISE FOR ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO COME HERE AND HELP THEMSELVES. NZ FIRST ` A PARTY BASED LARGELY ON SUPPORT FOR MAORI AND THE ELDERLY ` HAS ALWAYS HAD AN ANTI-FOREIGN INVESTMENT PLATFORM. NOW FOREIGNERS THEMSELVES ARE TARGETED. GIVEN OUR PROBLEMS FACING US RIGHT NOW, PARTICULARLY THE ONGOING AND UNRECOGNISED CRISIS OF UNEMPLOYMENT, WE SAY THAT THE TIME HAS COME TO CUT IMMIGRATION TO THE BONE. NATIONAL MOVED LAST WEEK TO STEM THE TIDE OF IMMIGRANTS, BUT LIKE LABOUR IT'S STILL KEEN TO EMBRACE FOREIGNERS AND THEIR MONEY. WE ARE NOT AN ASIAN NATION, AND WE ARE NOT A EUROPEAN NATION. WE ARE A SOUTH-PACIFIC COUNTRY. THAT'S WHAT THIS CAMPAIGN FOR NZ FIRST WILL BE ABOUT ` A COUNTRY FIT FOR NZERS TO LIVE IN, WHERE NZERS WILL BE FIRST, SECOND AND ANY POSITION BUT LAST. APPLAUSE WAKA HUIA IS NEXT. REMEMBER, Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35 PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS. THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT 9. CAPTIONS BY JAKE EBDALE AND ANTONY VLUG. CAPTIONS WERE MADE POSSIBLE WITH FUNDING FROM NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2016