MORENA, GOOD MORNING, AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M GREG BOYED. TODAY ` HAVE WE LOST CONTROL OF OUR BILLION-DOLLAR FORESTRY INDUSTRY? AN INVESTIGATION BY WHENA OWEN. IT'S A LOG GRAB. WE ACTUALLY FEEL LIKE THE MARKETS ARE SO HEALTHY AT THE MOMENT, THEY ARE TAKING WAY MORE THAN THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO. CORIN DANN CAUGHT UP WITH THE HEAD OF THE SUPERFUND, ADRIAN ORR, WHO TALKS ABOUT GOING GREEN AND INVESTING BIG BACK HOME. IF YOU KNOW WHEN THEY ARE HAPPENING AND WHERE THEY ARE, I WOULD LOVE TO BE IN THE QUEUE SAYING, 'PLEASE, WE WANT TO BE INVOLVED.' AND FINALLY, MILLIONAIRE TECH ENTREPRENEUR DEREK HANDLEY ON GIVING BACK AND GROWING GREAT NZERS. DUE TO THE LIVE NATURE OF Q+A, WE APOLOGISE FOR THE LACK OF CAPTIONS FOR SOME ITEMS. AND WE'LL HAVE ANALYSIS FROM OUR PANEL. POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR GRANT DUNCAN FROM MASSEY UNIVERSITY, FORMER NATIONAL PARTY PRESIDENT, PR PRACTITIONER MICHELLE BOAG, AND FIRST UNION GENERAL SECRETARY ROBERT REID. BUT FIRST, OUR LEAD STORY TODAY. THE GOVERNMENT'S BEING ACCUSED OF LOSING CONTROL OF THE FORESTRY SECTOR. MOST OF IT IS NOW IN FOREIGN OWNERSHIP AND MUCH OF THE WOOD PROCESSING IS SENT OFFSHORE. WITH COUNTRIES LIKE CANADA, CHILE AND CHINA NOW LOCKING UP MUCH OF THEIR FORESTRY ESTATES, THE RUSH IS ON TO HARVEST NZ'S FORESTS AND SHIP THE LOGS STRAIGHT OUT OF THE COUNTRY. WHENA OWEN WITH THIS INVESTIGATION. INTENSE MUSIC THE WALL OF WOOD HAS STARTED TO ARRIVE, AND IT'S ENORMOUS. WE ACTUALLY FEEL LIKE IT'S A LOG GRAB. THEY'RE TAKING WAY MORE THAN THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO. YOU'D BE RIGHT TO THINK THE WALL OF WOOD LINING OUR PORTS HAS BEEN GROWING. SINCE 2000, LOG EXPORT HAS ALMOST TRIPLED, OFF TO CHINESE AND KOREAN MILLS AND FACTORIES. WORK OUR LOCAL WOOD PROCESSORS SAY THEY'RE MISSING OUT ON. FOR IT ALL TO BE SOLD IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, LEAVING OUR WOOD PROCESSORS SHORT ` SHORT OF WOOD ` IT'S QUITE A SAD STORY. LIKE MANY IN HIS INDUSTRY, MARK HANSEN FROM ROSVALL MILL, NEAR WHANGAREI, IS CONCERNED ABOUT OVERHARVESTING, THE CUTTING OF YOUNGER TREES AND NOT ENOUGH REPLANTING. HE PREDICTS THE CRUNCH WILL COME WITHIN A DECADE, WHEN THE HARVEST IN NORTHLAND COULD RUN OUT. THOSE TEETH ARE... THAT'S SOME STEEL. ON THE EAST COAST, JOHN LARSEN OPERATES THE LAST NZ-OWNED MILL IN GISBORNE. THESE DAYS, IT'S USED IF A FARMER WANTS A FEW LOGS CUT UP. THERE'S NOT THE WOOD OUT THERE THAT'S AVAILABLE. JOHN HAS HAD TO DIVERSIFY INTO MAKING GARDEN FURNITURE, BUT HE HAS TO BRING HIS WOOD IN FROM OTHER REGIONS. SOME OF IT COMES FROM ROUND TAUPO. WHY DOESN'T IT COME FROM ROUND GISBORNE? > YOU'RE SURROUNDED BY FORESTS. > YEAH. AND THE ONLY SAWMILL THAT IS CAPABLE OF CUTTING IS RIGHT HERE, AND THE OTHER ONE IS CLOSED. ABOVE WELLINGTON'S PORT, NZ FIRST LEADER WINSTON PETERS SHOWS US WHAT HE CALLS A PLUNDER, A PROFIT FRENZY, RIGHT OUT OF HIS OFFICE WINDOW. EIGHT OF OUR TOP 10 FOREST COMPANIES ARE FOREIGN OWNED. AND AS A CONSEQUENCE, THERE'S A MASSIVE EXPORT FOR BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF ADDED VALUE IN SOME OTHER ECONOMY AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF JOBS AND ADDED VALUE IN SOME OTHER ECONOMY. CANADA DOESN'T ALLOW THAT. CHILE DOESN'T ALLOW THAT ANY MORE. OTHER COUNTRIES ARE UNDERSTANDING HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO HAVE WHAT THEY CALL A CANADIAN LOG PRICE OR A CANADIAN LOG POLICY, FOR THEIR OWN WORKFORCE, THEIR TIMBER WORKFORCE, FIRST AND FOREMOST. WE DON'T. OURS IS OPEN SLATHER. NZERS, RIGHTLY SO, SEE LOGS ON WHARF, AND THEY GET WORRIED ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE'RE NOT MAKING AS MUCH MONEY OUT OF THEM AS WE SHOULD BE. I GET THAT. WELL, WE'RE NOT, ARE WE? NOT THOSE PARTICULAR LOGS. WE ARE, NEVERTHELESS, EXPORTING QUITE A LOT OF PRODUCT IN PANELS, IN PULP, IN, UM... SOME TIMBER THAT'S ACTUALLY FOR STRUCTURAL PURPOSES. WHAT WE NEED TO AIM TO DO IS TO DO MORE OF THAT. SOME OF THE FOREIGN-OWNED COMPANIES HAVE PROMISED TO PROVIDE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO SET UP LOCAL PROCESSING WORK AS A CONDITION OF THEIR OVERSEAS INVESTMENT OFFICE AGREEMENT. 'WHERE IS IT?' ASKS LABOUR'S STUART NASH. HE'S QUESTIONED THE GOVERNMENT ABOUT THOSE PROMISES. WE'RE NOT CHASING UP WHETHER THESE PROMISES ARE BEING MET OR NOT, AND I THINK THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF RORTS GOING ON THAT WE NEED TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF. IN 1996, HIKURANGI FOREST FARMS, OWNED BY THE MALAYSIAN SAMLING GROUP, BOUGHT 33,000HA OF GISBORNE LAND. THEIR OVERSEAS INVESTMENT COMMISSION APPLICATION WAS GRANTED ON THE BASIS THAT THEY PROVIDE A WOOD PROCESSING FACILITY, A STATE-OF-THE-ART, FACILITY HERE IN GISBORNE. HIKURANGI PROMISED AGAIN IN 2007 WHEN THEY BOUGHT MORE LAND. NOTHING HAS HAPPENED. THERE ARE SOME FANTASTIC FOREIGN INVESTORS IN THE NZ FOREST INDUSTRY. THERE ARE OTHERS, LIKE HIKURANGI, WHO HAVE MADE PROMISES AFTER PROMISE AND HAVE NEVER MET THEM, AND THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN HELD TO ACCOUNT BY THE OVERSEAS INVESTMENT OFFICE OR ANY GOVERNMENT OR THE PEOPLE OF NZ. WE ASKED THE MINISTER RESPONSIBLE FOR OIO, LOUISE UPSTON, ABOUT HIKURANGI. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THERE HAS BEEN, EARLIER THIS YEAR, DEVELOPMENT OF A PROCESSING FACILITY. IT ISN'T ACTUALLY A PROCESSING PLANT, THOUGH, MINISTER. IT MEANS THAT THEY'RE JUST TRIMMED AND STORED IN PREPARATION FOR EXPORT. IT'S NOT ACTUALLY A FULL PROCESSING PLANT AS THEY UNDERTOOK TO PROVIDE. YEAH, SO MY UNDERSTANDING IN THE 1996 APPROVAL WAS THAT THERE WEREN'T ANY CONDITIONS THAT WERE APPLIED AT THE TIME. BUT HERE IS THE 1996 APPROVAL,... WITH RESPECT, THERE WERE CONDITIONS LAID OUT. THEY DID AGREE IN 1996, IN THAT DECISION, TO PROVIDE A PROCESSING PLANT. SO THAT'S NOT THE INFORMATION THAT'S BEEN PROVIDED TO ME. THEY'RE VIOLATION THE ACT. THEY'RE VIOLATING THE REASON WHY THEY'RE HERE. AND IT'S SNUBBING THE NOSE AT THE NZ PEOPLE. GISBORNE, WITH HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT, HAS WAITED FOR HIKURANGI FOREST FARMS' PROCESSING FACILITY. THE REGION'S EASTLAND COMMUNITY TRUST RECENTLY BOUGHT THE OLD CLOSED PRIME MILL TO START THEIR OWN PROCESSING. NOW ALL THEY NEED ARE LOGS. SO JUST SOUTH OF GISBORNE THIS IS NEW PRIME SAWMILL SITE. THEY HOPE IT WILL BE UP AND RUNNING BY THE END OF NEXT YEAR. AND IT SO HAPPENS THAT JUST ACROSS THE ROAD IS THE HIKURANGI FOREST FARM NEW GRADING AND STORAGE AREA. THE TRUST IN CHARGE OF THE NEW MILL TOLD Q+A IT HAD ASKED HIKURANGI IF THEY COULD BUY SOME OF THEIR A-GRADE LOGS. HIKURANGI REFUSED. SO NOW THEY'RE IN NEGOTIATIONS FOR SOME K-GRADE STOCK. AS YET, THERE'S NO FINAL RESPONSE FROM HIKURANGI FOREST FARMS. WE EMAILED HIKURANGI'S GISBORNE OFFICE AND THEN LEFT FOUR MESSAGES, WITH NO REPONSES. WE WANTED TO KNOW WHEN THEY WOULD BE BUILDING THEIR FACILITY AND WENT TO THEIR OFFICE. SO THAT'S ANOTHER NO. THE BOSS IS NOT IN. MEANWHILE, THE MINISTER RESPONSIBLE FOR FORESTRY HOPES THE CARBON PRICE WILL MOTIVATE LANDOWNERS TO REPLANT. NASH SAYS HOPE IS NOT ENOUGH. THE INDUSTRY NEEDS A NATIONAL FORESTRY STRATEGY. THERE'S 1.2 MILLION HECTARES OF FOREST PLANTED, AND WE DON'T HAVE A STRATEGY AROUND HOW TO MANAGE THIS. I WOULD SIMPLY REFUTE THAT. I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S TRUE. IN FACT, WHAT WE HAVE IS NOT A VAST ARRAY OF A FORESTRY PLAN, A HORTICULTURE PLAN, A DAIRY PLAN ` WE HAVE A BUSINESS GROWTH AGENDA. SINCE THE 1980S, GOVERNMENTS HAVE SOLD OFF 99% OF THE FOREST ESTATE. SO JUST HOW MUCH CONTROL DOES THE GOVERNMENT HAVE? THE CROWN, AS IN THE GOVERNMENT, CAN DETERMINE WHAT HAPPENS, WHAT THEY DO WITH THE FORESTRY THAT THEY OWN, BUT AS I SAID, IT'S LESS THAN 1%. THE PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHT OF THOSE WHO OWN THE OTHER FORESTRY RESOURCE IS THEIRS TO DETERMINE WHAT THEY DO WITH IT. SEND US YOUR THOUGHTS. WE'RE ON TWITTER @NZQANDA, YOU CAN EMAIL US AT Q+A AT TVNZ.CO.NZ OR TEXT YOUR THOUGHTS AND FIRST NAME TO 2211. KEEP THEM BRIEF. EACH TEXT COSTS 50 CENTS. WE'LL BRING IN OUR PANEL AFTER THE BREAK, AND LATER ` THE NZ SUPER FUND IS GETTING OUT OF ITS FOSSIL FUEL INVESTMENTS. CHIEF EXECUTIVE ADRIAN ORR EXPLAINS WHY A LITTLE LATER IN THE PROGRAMME. THERE'S 1.2M HECTARES OF FOREST PLANTED, AND WE DON'T HAVE A STRATEGY AROUND HOW TO MANAGE THIS. I WOULD REFUTE THAT. I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S TRUE. IN FACT, WHAT WE HAVE IS NOT A VAST ARRAY` A FORESTRY PLAN, A HORTICULTURE PLAN, A DAIRY PLAN. WE HAVE A BUSINESS GROWTH AGENDA. POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR GRANT DUNCAN FROM MASSEY UNIVERSITY, FORMER NATIONAL PARTY PRESIDENT, PR PRACTITIONER, MICHELLE BOAG AND FIRST UNION GENERAL SECRETARY ROBERT REID. Michelle, we are selling off our logs. Other countries are making a lot of money selling it back to us. And we champs here? Companies have got very good at tailoring the aspirations to make sure that they are attractive to New Zealand. But they're not coming through with what they are promising. In this particular case, they are not. I don't know if there is a lack of a mechanism to force them to do this. We might need a mechanism to make sure that they do deliver on their promises. It might be the case that somebody in government has to provide a pathway to force them to be held to account, because clearly this hasn't happened in this particular case. What are your thoughts on what the OIA should do here? We need to have a mechanism that forces ccompanies to do what they have promised. I think the problem is much more than they OIA. This is New Zealand's third biggest industry, and since the corporatisation of the mid-1980s, it has simply gone downhill. I can still remember when we had the New Zealand Forest Service, and thriving towns in the central North Island, where people had good jobs. Then we had privatisation. Two big companies sold the Paris office. We now have a crazy situation where 8/10 of the major forest owners and managers are from overseas. The sawmills here do not own their own forests. They have to go cap in hand to the big boys to get wood. This would be fine, if we could make a fortune out of it. We are not making a fortune out of this. It is crazy, really, what we are allowed to happen. It is just logs and polls being sent to China mostly. This is a growth industry for someone, but we're not reaping the benefits here. That is now running off in small directions. This is globalisation. We are looking at a classic argument - do we do something to take our own industries, or do we allow globalisation and the free market rule? We see Winston Peters, the great economic nationalists come on screen and say we need to do something about this. Industries are coming in and making promises, and there appears to be no accountability. This is the approach that the government is taking? Well, as I say, this is one particular case that has been brought to our attention. There is nothing to suggest that this is across the spectrum. The factors, the government does not have the resources to invest in huge downstream production. That's one of the reasons these forests are sold off. We cannot use taxpayer money to set up huge processing facilities. But we're giving them away. We didn't give them away. We sold them. This is a decision that the government at the time made. It seems strange to me that this trust is going to set up this facility without securing the products that will be used in this facility. That is putting the cart well before the horse. They have done us, as I understand it. I don't know if that is ratepayers or whatever, but you do not build the factory until you have the product to put through the factory. I think many of these companies really have no intention of doing what they have been asked. If you had to put a sentence in your application, you put it in, especially as there is no comeback for that. But I disagree with Michelle that the government doesn't have resources to do this. The government has more resources than anyone. It is an ideological thing. The government should be making sure that we do have value added. I would rather that our government spends our money on schools, hospitals, etc. Yes, but you need to get money to do that. AFTER THE BREAK ` THE HEAD OF THE NZ SUPER FUND ON THE HUNT FOR NEW OPPORTUNITIES. SO DO YOU THINK AS A BIG INVESTOR THAT YOU COULD GO IN AND BUILD A LARGE NUMBER OF THOSE AFFORDABLE HOUSES? THIS WEEK THE $30B NZ SUPER FUND ANNOUNCED A NEW CLIMATE CHANGE STRATEGY. IT WANTS TO GET OUT OF ANY INVESTMENTS IN FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES OR BUSINESSES WITH HIGH CARBON EMISSIONS, DESCRIBING THESE COMPANIES AS A RISK FOR ANY LONG-TERM INVESTOR. IT'LL BE MEASURING ITS OWN CARBON FOOTPRINT IN ITS YEARLY REPORTS AND WORKING WITH THE COMPANIES IT DOES INVEST IN TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE TAKING CLIMATE CHANGE INTO ACCOUNT TOO. CHIEF EXECUTIVE ADRIAN ORR EXPLAINED HIS PLAN IN AN INTERVIEW WITH CORIN DANN. BY THE WAY, THAT'S WHAT COMPANIES SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY LIKE WE'VE HAD AN EPIPHANY AND SUDDENLY THOUGHT OF THIS. I MEAN, ALL COMPANIES SHOULD BE THINKING VERY HARD. IT IS REAL. IT IS MATERIAL. IN 10 YEARS' TIME, 30 YEARS' TIME, SOCIETY WILL BE USING ENERGY DIFFERENTLY AND DIFFERENT ENERGIES. AND THAT WILL AFFECT EITHER THE REGULATORY REGIME THAT WE'RE IN, IT WILL AFFECT THE PRICING REGIME FOR CARBON AND CARBON EMISSION. WELL, THERE IS NO PRICING REGIME THAT IS SUSTAINABLE AT THE MOMENT, BUT THERE WILL BE, I HOPE, BECAUSE OTHERWISE REGULATION WILL COME THROUGH. CONSUMERS AND INVESTORS ARE SAYING, 'WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING,' AND THEY DON'T CARE WHETHER YOU ARE THE MINER OR YOU ARE THE ENERGY PRODUCER OR THE END CONSUMER. THEY WANT TO KNOW HOW ARE YOU DOING AROUND EFFICIENCY AND, EFFECTIVELY, FINANCIAL STABILITY. ARE YOU STILL GOING TO BE RELEVANT IN 20, 30 YEARS' TIME? SO WHAT'S THE FLIP SIDE OF THIS? CAN YOU GIVE US SOME EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT, TECHNOLOGY, GREEN TECHNOLOGY YOU'RE SEEING THAT YOU WILL WANT TO INVEST IN? ELECTRIC CARS? WHAT IS IT THAT'S TOP OF THE LIST? YEAH, THERE IS A LOT OF GOOD AND NEW IDEAS. THERE'S KIND OF TWO FORMS. THERE'S ONE ABOUT CURRENT ENERGIES BEING USED BETTER AND CURRENT ENERGIES BEING CLEANED UP. FOR EXAMPLE, WE'RE INVESTED IN LANZATECH. THIS IS THE NZ VENTURE COMPANY. THEY ARE TURNING CURRENT POLLUTION INTO USEFUL ENERGY AND USEFUL BY-PRODUCTS THAT MAY BE VERY REVOLUTIONARY. I USE THE WORD 'MAY', BECAUSE THESE ARE ALL NEW TECHNOLOGIES. WE'RE INVESTED IN CLEARVIEW. THIS IS A GLASS TECHNOLOGY FOR BUILDINGS, AND THIS IS WHERE YOU CAN EFFECTIVELY WALK AROUND, YOU AND I CAN SET OUR OWN SHADE, OUR OWN HEAT, OUR OWN LIGHT INDIVIDUALLY. THIS GLASS WILL BE MOVING WITH YOU, AND SO THAT SUDDENLY YOU'VE GOT ENERGY-EFFICIENT BUILDINGS AND YOU'VE GOT A MUCH BETTER ENVIRONMENT IN THE WORKPLACE. TRANSPORT IS COMPLETELY CHANGING. YOU'RE SEEING CITIES, FOR EXAMPLE, IN CHINA, THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT COOKIE-CUTTERED OFF TEMPLATES FROM THE US, AND NOW THEY'RE RELATIVELY EMPTY IN THE INNER CITY BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T COMMUTING AND PARKING CARS AND FILLING UP THEIR BOOTS ANY MORE, SO THE ROADS AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS TO BE DIFFERENT. SURE. THERE WILL BE SOME PEOPLE, THOUGH, WHO WILL SAY YOUR CORE TASK IS JUST GETTING A RETURN ON AN INVESTMENT TO PAY FOR THE RETIREMENT OF THE BABY-BOOMERS AND THE OTHERS. YOU ONLY MANAGED 1.89% IN THE LAST YEAR. ISN'T THAT WHERE YOU SHOULD BE PUTTING YOUR FOCUS AND LETTING THE GOVERNMENT WORRY ABOUT THE CLIMATE CHANGE STUFF? YEAH, AND I THINK THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK IT'S A POOR USE OF NUMBERS, BY THE WAY. I MEAN, IT'S TAKING YOUR PHOTO IN A MARATHON. IN FACT, THE YEAR TO DATE, WE'RE UP TO JUST ON 11% PER ANNUM. THAT'S 11, NOT 1.9%. YOU'RE REFERRING TO AN ANNUAL REPORT NUMBER, A SNAPSHOT. WE HAVE AVERAGED BROADLY ABOUT 10% PER ANNUM SINCE THE FUND STARTED, SO WE ARE ONE OF THE HIGHEST-PERFORMING SOVEREIGN WEALTH FUNDS IN THE WORLD, SO I FEEL I NEED TO SAY THAT, BECAUSE THE PUBLIC ONLY SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN NZ. THEY DON'T SEE THE REST OF THE WORLD. WITH THAT, THOUGH, I TOTALLY AGREE. OUR JOB IS ONE THING ONLY, AND THAT IS TO MAXIMISE RETURN WITHOUT UNDUE RISK FOR THE FUND AS A WHOLE, AND THIS STRATEGY SITS EXACTLY IN THE LINE OF SIGHT OF OUR PURPOSE. BUT AREN'T THOSE GREEN TECHNOLOGIES, THEY'RE PRETTY HIGH RISK, AREN'T THEY? I MEAN` YEAH, SOME ARE. OUT OF HOW MANY ARE GOING TO COME GOOD? SOME ARE. ARE THEY MORE HIGH-RISK THAN, SAY, JUST INVESTING IN COAL? IT MAY BE LEFT STRANDED IN THE GROUND. THIS IS THE TRADE-OFF WE HAVE TO MAKE, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A DIVERSIFIED PORTFOLIO, SOME IN TRADITIONAL ENERGIES, SOME IN ALTERNATIVE ENERGIES AND ACROSS ALL INDUSTRIES GLOBALLY. FOR US OVER THE HORIZON THAT MATTERS, OVER A 30-YEAR HORIZON, WE HAVE TO BE THINKING HARD ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, FORESTRY. FORESTRY IS A FANTASTIC, GREEN, HAS ALL THE RIGHT VIBE GOING WITH IT. IT'S A BIG PART OF OUR PORTFOLIO. BUT WHAT IF CLIMATE CHANGE TURNS IT INTO A NEGATIVE RATHER THAN A POSITIVE? WE CAN'T GET WATER; THE PHYSICAL DANGER GOES UP; WE CAN'T CHOP THEM DOWN, BECAUSE WE CAN'T HARVEST THEM. SO YOU HAVE TO TAKE ON BOARD THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE AMONGST MANY OTHER THINGS. I WONDER IF WE CAN TALK ABOUT LOCAL INVESTMENTS. YOU HAVE DONE SOME. YOU'VE DIPPED YOUR TOE INTO THE HOUSING AREA WITH AN INVESTMENT OF, WHAT, A COUPLE HUNDRED HOUSES? YEAH, YEAH, AND WE'RE DOING MORE. HAVE YOU GOT MORE IN THE PIPELINE? BECAUSE THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A CLEAR NEED AND MONEY TO BE MADE IN AUCKLAND, ISN'T THERE? YEAH. I MEAN, THE CHALLENGE WITH AUCKLAND, OF COURSE, IS THE ENTRY PRICE OF THE HOUSING, AND SECTIONS AND STUFF IS PRETTY RICH. YOU CAN'T BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? WE ARE HAVING OUR VERY BEST EFFORT AT BUILDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND, IN FACT, THE DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU'VE MENTIONED THAT IS WELL UNDERWAY HAS A REAL EFFORT TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE AFFORDABLE, AND THAT'S WITH A CAPITAL A, NOT THE PRETEND AFFORDABLE, IS PART OF A WIDER MIXED COMMUNITY AMONGST THOSE GROUPS. SO ENTRY HOMES` BUT ARE WE TALKING A $500,000 HOUSE HERE? WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? YEAH, YEAH, AND ALSO LONG-TERM RENTAL, RATHER THAN JUST SHORT-TERM RENTAL AGREEMENTS, SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY STRIKE THE CONTRACT THAT` SO YOU THINK THERE'S A BIG INVESTOR THAT YOU COULD GO AND BUILD A LARGE NUMBER OF THOSE AFFORDABLE HOUSES? BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY WHERE THE GAME IS AT, ISN'T IT? THAT'S ONE INVESTMENT GAME HERE IN NZ, AND I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. AND WE ARE VERY AMBITIOUS, AND WE'VE HAD THE SHINGLE OUT. WE'RE WORKING WITH NGAI TAHU. WE'RE CO-INVESTING ACROSS THERE, AND REALLY WE NEED ACCESS ` GOOD ACCESS TO LAND, GOOD ACCESS TO THE CAPABILITY. WE'VE GOT THE CAPITAL, AND WE'RE OPEN FOR BUSINESS. WELL, I KNOW SOMEONE WHO NEEDS SOME CAPITAL, AND THAT'S HOUSING NZ. I MEAN, COULD YOU WORK ALONGSIDE A DEPARTMENT LIKE THAT? YEAH. THE CHALLENGE WITH HOUSING NZ` DON'T WORRY, WE TALK ALL THE TIME WITH ALL DIFFERENT GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS. WHETHER IT'S TRANSPORT, INFRASTRUCTURE, HOUSING, SOCIAL PROVISION, WE ARE INVESTING IN, I SUPPOSE, PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS. WE'VE INVESTED IN SCHOOLS, PRISONS. WE'VE MISSED OUT ON THE ROADING ON A COUPLE OF TIMES. BUT WITH THE SOCIAL HOUSING SIDE, THERE'S TWO CHALLENGES THERE. ONE IS BY DEFINITION THESE ARE NOT ABOUT MAXIMISING A RATE OF RETURN. SURE. THESE ARE ABOUT HOMES, AND SO WE HAVE TO THINK HARD ABOUT HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO THE PORTFOLIO? THE SECOND BIT, OF COURSE, IS THAT ONE OF THE MAIN MISSIONS OF GOVERNMENT POLICY IS ABOUT SAYING WHERE THE HOUSES ARE CURRENTLY SITUATED, IS THAT WHERE THEY'RE CURRENTLY NEEDED? AND SO THAT'S A COMPLEX SITUATION. WE'RE NOT INVESTED IN THAT SPACE AT THE MOMENT. WE'RE INVESTED IN THE COMMERCIAL SIDE AROUND PEOPLE WHO ARE RENT-PAYING, RENT-SEEKING. WHAT ABOUT SOME BIG INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS? WILL YOU BE DOING MORE INVESTING IN ROADING, HARBOUR BRIDGE CROSSINGS, THESE SORT OF LONG-TERM PROJECTS? YEAH. ARE YOU GOING TO COMMIT TO THOSE? IF YOU KNOW WHEN THEY'RE HAPPENING AND WHERE THEY ARE, I WOULD LOVE TO BE IN THE QUEUE SAYING, 'PLEASE, WE WANT TO BE INVOLVED.' AND WE'VE MADE THAT VERY CLEAR. IN FACT, WE'RE ON NATIONAL TV DOING IT AGAIN. WE'VE ACTUALLY SET UP FOR ONE OF OUR KEY PRIORITIES THIS YEAR AN INVESTMENT HUB STRATEGY, SO WE'RE SAYING, 'FOLKS, WHETHER IT'S, SAY, INFRASTRUCTURE, TRANSPORT, 'WHETHER IT'S MAORI USE OF THEIR RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL ACROSS LANDS 'OR BUILDINGS THAT ARE CURRENTLY UNDERINVESTED OR UNDERUTILISED, 'WHETHER WE CAN BE A DISRUPTOR IN TRADITIONAL VALUE CHAINS, SAY, 'IN THE FISHING INDUSTRY OR THE MEAT INDUSTRY ` '$9 OUT OF $10 SPENT ON PROCURING PROCESSING, 'ONLY $1 SPENT ON MARKETING ` CAN WE BRING CAPITAL, 'CAN WE BRING CAPABILITY TO THOSE ACCESS POINTS AND BE GAME-CHANGERS?' BUT YOU NEED TO HAVE AN OPEN CONVERSATION. PEOPLE NEED TO BE WILLING TO TALK WITH WHO THEY MIGHT PERCEIVE AS THEIR CURRENT COMPETITORS, AND LET'S DO IT ON A GLOBAL SCALE. WE GLOBALLY INVEST. WE CAN PLUG AND PLAY IN AUSTRALIA. WE CAN PLUG AND PLAY IN THE UK, CANADA, THE US, AND WE DO. IT'S VERY HARD TO PLUG AND PLAY AT SCALE IN NZ IN INVESTMENT. AND HOW MUCH OF A PROBLEM IS THE` WE'VE GOT A SITUATION WITH VERY LOW INTEREST RATES. YOU'RE NOT GETTING A GREAT RETURN ON JUST HOLDING ON TO CASH, ARE YOU, SO HOW DIFFICULT IS THAT? I MEAN, IT'S A PROBLEM FOR ALL INVESTORS, ISN'T IT? THAT'S RIGHT, AND, IN FACT, THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF HAVING LOW INTEREST RATES. CENTRAL BANKS AROUND THE WORLD HAVE SAID, 'LOOK, STOP HOARDING YOUR CASH. STOP PUTTING IT UNDER THE MATTRESS. 'STOP JUST LEAVING IT IN THE BANK. GET OUT AND PUT IT TO WORK. 'GET OUT AND INVEST.' BUT IT'S GONE INTO ASSET BUBBLES, HASN'T IT? IN SOME PARTS. IN SOME COUNTRIES YOU'VE SEEN SOME HOUSING ACTIVITY. THAT'S NOT JUST MONETARY POLICY, OF COURSE. THAT'S DEMOGRAPHICS. THAT'S SUPPLY SIDE ISSUES. THAT'S MIGRATION. YOU KNOW, THE VANCOUVER, AUCKLAND, SYDNEY STORIES. MORE GENERALLY, CONSUMER SPENDING HAS BEEN VERY LOW. YOU ARE NOW SEEING IT PICK UP. THE US CONSUMER CONFIDENCE IS ACTUALLY VERY GOOD. IT IS VERY GOOD HERE AS WELL. WHAT WE AREN'T SEEING IS LONG-TERM BUSINESS INVESTMENT, LONG-TERM CONFIDENT BUSINESS LEADERS AND LONG-TERM CONFIDENT PUBLIC LEADERS. THERE'S NOT A LOT OF BORROWING TO INVEST IN LONG-TERM INFRASTRUCTURE GLOBALLY, DESPITE THIS MASSIVE CAPITAL INFRASTRUCTURE HOLE AT THE MOMENT. THE US` SO ARE YOU HAPPY TO BE THAT INVESTOR OF LAST RESORT, THEN, IN NZ? I'D LIKE TO BE INVESTOR OF FIRST RESORT. BY THE WAY, YES, WE ARE VERY HAPPY IF IT'S LAST RESORT. BUT SHOULD YOU BE? UH... WHAT YOU SEEM TO BE SAYING IS THERE SHOULD BE MORE OF THAT INVESTMENT GOING; IT SHOULDN'T JUST BE YOU? IT SHOULD BE BUSINESSES, AND WE SHOULD BE WORKING BESIDE BUSINESSES. WE CAN BRING CAPITAL, BUT WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO RUN A TRUCKING COMPANY OR WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO, YOU KNOW, SO WE NEED THE CAPABILITY TO INVEST BESIDE, AND WE NEED PARTNERS WHO ARE PREPARED TO HAVE LONG-TERM VISION THAT WE HAVE AND ALSO COME ALONG WITH THEIR ENVIRONMENTAL AND SOCIETAL AND GOVERNANCE BELIEFS THAT WE FOLLOW. ONE LAST QUESTION ` WE'RE NOW SEEING SURPLUSES RETURN. WE CAN EXPECT SOME FAIRLY LARGE ONES IN THE COMING YEARS? YEAH. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE GOVERNMENT START TO RESUME CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR FUND? IS IT TIME? YES, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE CONTRIBUTIONS, AND BY ALL ACCOUNTS THAT IS WHAT IS PLANNED BY THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT, SAYING WE STILL SEEM TO BE IN THE MISSIVES COMING FROM THE BEEHIVE, SO THAT'S GREAT AND MAY THAT CONTINUE. LIKEWISE, ALL OTHER PARTIES ARE SAYING THAT THE SUPER FUND IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF SOCIAL COHESION FOR THIS COUNTRY. BECAUSE THERE'LL BE SOME COMPETING INTERESTS FOR THOSE SERVICES. THE CURRENT` YOU'RE LOOKING AT TAX CUTS. YOU'RE LOOKING AT PAYING DOWN OTHER DEBT. THAT'S RIGHT. WELL, I TRY TO SUM IT UP LIKE THIS, REALLY. THE CURRENT POPULATION ALWAYS OUTCOMPETE THE FUTURE POPULATION FOR THEIR NEEDS, AND SO THIS FUND IS ABOUT TRYING TO HAVE SOME FAIR SHARE. WHAT'S THAT FAMOUS SAYING? WHAT'S THE FUTURE GENERATION EVER DONE FOR ME? WE'RE HERE TO TRY AND TALK ON BEHALF OF THAT. LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL NOW. It seems like a match made in heaven, the Superfund getting into low-cost housing. It is a great idea. We have the ACC and the Superfund both getting into it. Thanks to Michael Cullen when he was Minister of Finance we now have these two large funds. It does make sense economically and socially. We do not have to rely so much on foreign investment. We have seen that problem with the forestry industry. We will have to rely on foreign investment and some extent. We are too small. You could say that. But we're told the Superfund should not put all its eggs in NZ basket. It is generating its own surpluses and can invest. But it is not the way that capitalism works these days. The Superfund could be a lot bigger than what it is. If that was not for Rob Muldoon killing of the early super scheme the could be a lot more money in the scheme. It would have made a big difference to the country. I am pleased ACC are investing in various areas. The government can do its own sleight of hand of convincing itself it is not that investing. It would have been nice if we all bought shares at 1.50. We can learn from the past but some people do not. The issue around investing, Adrian Orr is getting out ahead of the debate. He is leading the debate. It is good to see. They have invested 42% in Timberland's. That is Forest. He is getting out ahead. He is saying we need to think about this issue about long-term viability of investment. The are a lot of investments we are in now that are providing a good return. He had to make sure the balance is there. He is thinking very long-term. About industries that may not be delivering the same return in 20 or 30 years time. The way that technology is moving it is providing us opportunities to get into technologies that will be kinder to the planet than some existing industries. So it will not be a rapid shift. We will see some consciousness about providing support for these new technologies. Our agricultural industry is one. They are working hard to reduce emissions. It is a major part of NZ problem. It has not been economic for forestry to plant. The is a lot of work Paula Bennett has been announcing that planting will be a feature of the government strategy. At 1.89% return they are looking at the long-term. Should the government be looking long term? I hope that every government is looking long term. Is this one? I have not heard the same visionary talk from the government that I have heard from Adrian . We have everything about responsible investment. The superannuation fund does have a clear governance framework. We are trying not to invest in industries that exploit child labour and those types of things. I would like to hear more of the talk from the government that we have heard from Adrian or. Things around social and environmental responsibility. The long-term thinking. The last annual report did not look all that great but when you look at the long-term they are performing well as an investment vehicle. Do you agree the government has dropped the ball on that side of investing? The political side of the government does not worry. It leads to market forces. So it is good we have two major funds in NZ that we as taxpayers own and people like Adrian Orr who are forward thinking that enable us to do that. What he was talking about is things the government should be doing. Things like R and D. We are behind other countries. As our research and development was increased by the government, it could help us increase the standard of living in NZ a lot more than what we have now. And a lot more than what the government, as soon as it gets a surplus, saying tax cut, tax cut. They are not saying that. They have signed the Paris agreement. In terms of what you are talking about Robert, the government is taking an investment approach on social issues. We have seen that. The social investment they are making will not give us a return for 20 or 30 years. The work they are putting into identifying families and children who will be part of the statistics that we do not want growing. What are they doing now? A raft of programs are looking at vulnerable children and families and investing in those families and education to make sure in 30 years time those kids are not in prison. Bill English has mandated that right throughout. The people who will see the returns are the next generation. We will not see those returns. It is gobbledygook. That is what should be happening but the inequality in this country has grown. They are wanting to provide capitalist solutions for people that capitalism has let down. You do not fix these problems by throwing money at people. You giving education, skills and you get the out of the poverty trap. What is the difference between investing in throwing money at people? Is leading go back to the super fund. Moving into greener areas. It's financially clever is that the way people who are about to retire will view this? Certainly. I presume I will be eligible at some stage for superannuation. There will be partly funded by this fund. I say go for it. In 20 years time things like coal will be a bad investment. The is a risk attached to some of the sustainable industries and technologies but we have to be involved in the. We have to support them. I do not agree with people saying that our current superannuation entitlements are unaffordable. We can afford them if we want to afford them. It is a political decision. Let's make sure the fund gets a good return on investment. Let's not talk about superannuation being unaffordable and younger generations getting nothing. Let's turn away from Superfund. Hekia Parata - her announcement came out of the blue. What she pushed or did she jump? She is totally committed to uplifting achievement. She was a change maker. She was not pushEd. I think she thinks that there is only so much change she could do to the sector. She has heaps of potential and had a fabulous career before coming into Parliament. I think she will do a significant job internationally using that experience. Her time in the job had a lot of pay, closing of Christchurch schools and smaller classrooms and Novo pay. They can happen to change agents. Who will get the job? Very good question. I am not John Key. You have his phone number. With Hekia Parata gone you have a very male and white government. Simon Bridges. Still male. Maori males don't count. Of course they do. Can we expect a reshuffle in what does he do? Bring in someone with the same ethnicity and demographics that Hekia Parata has. But I don't know that exists. He has a problem in Auckland. The fictionalisation of the national party is just below the surface. John Key has to watch it. The national party can't agree on a candidate for the Auckland Council, so I think we will see the three major factions of the party squabbling. There will be more important in the end as to who gets the job rather than the demographic or ethnicity. We don't have time Michelle. I have no idea what he is talking about factions AFTER THE BREAK ` KIWI TECH ENTREPRENEUR DEREK HANDLEY. HE'S MADE HIS MILLIONS. NOW HE'S THINKING ABOUT THE NEXT GENERATION. YOU HAVE A 4-YEAR-OLD SON. WHAT SORT OF AN EDUCATION WILL HE GET? WHAT WILL HE GROW UP IN? I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WILL GROW UP IN, COS I DON'T THINK THE TYPE OF SCHOOL THAT I WOULD LOVE HIM TO GO TO EXISTS. NZER DEREK HANDLEY MADE HIS MILLIONS CO-FOUNDING THE HYPERFACTORY ` ONE OF THE FIRST AGENCIES IN THE WORLD TO SPECIALISE IN ADVERTISING AND MARKETING FOR MOBILE AND TABLETS. AND WHILE HE'S LIVED OVERSEAS FOR 12 YEARS, HE'S STILL HEAVILY INVESTED IN HIS HOME COUNTRY. HE WORKS WITH AUT ON RE-IMAGINING THE FUTURE OF EDUCATION. HE'S AN INVESTOR IN A NUMBER OF START-UPS HERE, AND HE HAS A CHARITABLE FOUNDATION CALLED AERA. THROUGH AERA, HE RECENTLY LAUNCHED A FELLOWSHIP FOR EXCEPTIONAL YOUNG NZERS. I CAUGHT UP WITH HIM DURING THE WEEK AND ASKED WHAT HE WAS HOPING TO ACHIEVE. WE HAVE A LOT OF FANTASTIC NZERS THAT COME OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL AND GO TO AMAZING SCHOOLS LIKE OXFORD OR STANFORD OR DUKE, BUT THEY DON'T COME BACK FOR A LONG TIME. SO A PART OF THE FELLOWSHIP IS ABOUT CREATING A NETWORK OF THOSE PEOPLE TO CONTINUALLY BE CONNECTED TO NZ. THE OTHER PART IS I'M REALLY PASSIONATE ABOUT GETTING INVOLVED WITH YOUNG PEOPLE BEFORE THEY MAKE SOME DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT THEY WANNA DO WITH THEIR LIVES AND EXPOSING THEM TO A WHOLE RAFT OF SOCIAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL, I GUESS, INJUSTICES AND CHALLENGES, FOR THEM TO THINK ABOUT HOW THEY CAN MOST CONTRIBUTE THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF THEIR LIVES TO SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE SO THEY THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS AS THEY ARE DECIDING WHAT THEY WANNA DO WITH THEIR CAREERS. YOU SAY IT'S FOR EXCEPTIONAL YOUNG NZERS. WHAT'S AN EXCEPTIONAL NZER? IS IT A STRAIGHT-A STUDENT? IS IT A SPORTING STAR? WHAT'S YOUR DEFINITION? I HAVE TO START OFF WITH THESE PARTICULAR CHARACTERS THAT HAVE VERY STRONG COURAGE ABOUT WHAT THEY WANT TO TRY AND DO IN THE WORLD. THEY ARE TALENTED FROM AN ACADEMIC PERSPECTIVE. SOME OF THEM DO COME FROM VARYING BACKGROUNDS, DISADVANTAGED UPBRINGINGS. BUT REALLY, THEY'RE THE KIDS THAT WANNA TAKE ON THE WORLD AND MAKE A DENT IN IT. SO THEY ARE VERY BRIGHT, THEY'RE VERY CREATIVE, AND THEY HAVE THE COURAGE TO DREAM A DIFFERENT TYPE OF DREAM. I THINK EVERY KID IN NZ SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE` SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE THOSE KINDA DREAMS. BUT I'M WORRIED THAT WE'RE NOT GETTING DOWN THAT DIRECTION. YOU'VE SAID EDUCATION'S GONNA CHANGE IMMENSELY IN THE NEXT 10 YEARS, AND RATHER THAN STUDYING SUBJECTS, IT'LL BE ABOUT FIXING SOCIETAL PROBLEMS. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? AND HOW DOES YOUR FELLOWSHIP BECOME A PART OF THAT? I GUESS WHAT I MEAN IS THAT WHEN WE'RE GONE, YOU KNOW, WHEN THIS GENERATION IS GONE OR WHEN WE'RE VERY OLD, I THINK FUTURE GENERATIONS WILL JUDGE US NOT ON GDP, THEY WON'T JUDGE US ON QUALITY OF OUR ROADS AND THE BUSES AND OUR BICYCLE WAYS; THEY'LL JUDGE US ON HOW OUR SOCIETY IS AND HOW WE TREAT THE MARGINALISED AND HOW WE TREAT THE ELDERLY AND THE INFIRM AND HOW WE TREAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HAVING INJUSTICES PUT UPON THEM. AND FOR ME, THAT'S THE KIND OF YOUNG PERSON I THINK` I WANNA HELP CREATE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO TACKLE THOSE ISSUES AS THEY BUILD THEIR CAREERS AND THEIR LIVES. CAN YOU MAKE AN ENTREPRENEUR? OR IS AN ENTREPRENEUR BORN? I THINK IF YOU CAN HELP PEOPLE REDUCE THE FEARS ABOUT MAKING DECISIONS THAT MIGHT BE UNPOPULAR OR OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT GO, 'WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT?' TO HELP PEOPLE LEARN TO LOOK FURTHER, ASK QUESTIONS AND TRY AND PROJECT THE FUTURE AND THEN HAVE THE COURAGE TO FOLLOW THEIR CONVICTIONS. I THINK ANYONE CAN BE AN ENTREPRENEUR. AND I THINK THAT IS ALSO THE FUNDAMENTAL SHIFT THAT SHOULD HAPPEN IN EDUCATION ` THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE TAUGHT TO FOLLOW THEIR CONVICTIONS AND BE BOLD ENOUGH TO PURSUE A DREAM, WHETHER IT'S A SMALL DREAM OR A BIG DREAM. DID YOUR TEACHERS, DID YOUR FAMILY` WHAT LEAD YOU TO BECOME AN ENTREPRENEUR? WELL, I GUESS MY FATHER. HE WAS AN ENTREPRENEUR. HE HAD A SMALL BUSINESS WHEN I WAS GROWING UP. IT WAS ONLY TWO OR THREE PEOPLE, BUT I KNEW THAT HE LEFT A BIG COMPANY AND MADE A LEAP, AND OUR HOUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN BECAME VERY SMALL, AND WE HAD A DIFFERENT LIFESTYLE FOR A WHILE. MY PARENTS ALWAYS TOLD ME, 'YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANNA DO.' 'DREAM WHATEVER YOU WANNA DREAM.' AND I KNOW THERE'S WHOLE SECTIONS OF SOCIETY THAT REALLY HAVE` THEY CAN'T EVEN RELATE TO THAT IDEA. IF THEIR DAD'S A TRUCK DRIVER, THEY THINK THAT MAYBE THEY'LL ONLY BE ABLE TO BE A TRUCK DRIVER. AND CERTAIN TEACHERS OR MENTORS ALONG THE WAY, BUT EFFECTIVELY, I LEARNED A LOT ALSO FROM READING AND JUST ABSORBING ` JUST SEEING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAD DONE FROM THE BACKGROUNDS THAT THEY HAD COME FROM. SO IT WAS A COMBINATION OF THOSE THINGS. BUT I ALSO HAD LOTS OF TEACHERS THAT TOLD ME 'YOU CAN'T' OR 'YOU SHOULDN'T', AND IT'S JUST HAVING THE CONVICTION TO SAY, 'MAYBE THAT DOESN'T APPLY TO ME.' YOU HAVE A FOUR-YEAR-OLD SON. WHAT SORT OF` IDEALLY, WITH WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THIS, WHAT SORT OF AN EDUCATION, WHAT SORT OF SCHOOLING WILL HE GET? WHAT WILL HE GROW UP IN? I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE'LL GROW UP IN BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THE TYPE OF SCHOOL THAT HE` THAT I WOULD LOVE HIM TO GO TO EXISTS, YOU KNOW? PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD ARE EXPERIMENTING WITH 'WHAT CAN THE FUTURE LOOK LIKE?' FOR ME, PART OF IT WOULD BE ABLE TO SHIFT FROM DIFFERENT PLACES AROUND THE WORLD. THAT WOULD BE AN INTERESTING WAY. AND A LOT OF IT WOULD BE AROUND FOSTERING THOSE TRAITS. I THINK, YES, LEARN DIFFERENT MATHS, SCIENCE, ETC, BUT KNOWLEDGE, COMPARED TO WHEN I WAS AT SCHOOL, IS BASICALLY ACCESSIBLE AT A FINGER, YOU KNOW, AT A KEYBOARD, ON WIKIPEDIA OR ANY OTHER WAY. SO MY KID'S ONLY FOUR, BUT HE DOES UNDERSTAND THAT YOU GET LOTS OF ANSWERS FROM THE INTERNET. AT THE MOMENT HE GETS THEM FROM YOUTUBE. HE WANTS TO KNOW HOW A VACUUM CLEANER WORKS. HE WANTS TO KNOW HOW A LAWNMOWER WORKS. HE WANTS TO KNOW HOW THINGS ARE MADE. HE JUST WATCHES YOUTUBE VIDEOS. SO, HIS SORT OF EDUCATION SHOULD BE AROUND FOSTERING HIS EDUCATION, HIS COURAGE, AND ALSO HIS COMPASSION AND HIS EMPATHY. ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, I THINK, ARE WHAT MAKE A HUMAN BEING WHO THEY ARE, WHETHER THEY STUDIED ROCKET SCIENCE OR ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE COURAGE TO FOLLOW THEIR OWN INNER VOICE AND ALSO THE COMPASSION TO UNDERSTAND AND THE EMPATHY TO WORK WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND SEE WHERE THERE ARE INJUSTICES THAT THEY SHOULD CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS. ON THE SUBJECT OF YOUTUBING VACUUM CLEANERS AND THE LIKE... (LAUGHS) HOW MUCH SCREEN TIME? THAT'S A BIG THING NOW ` THAT PEOPLE ARE LIMITING SCREEN TIME OR WORRYING ABOUT SCREEN TIME. DO YOU HAVE SET PARAMETERS FOR HOW LONG HE CAN SPEND IN FRONT OF A SCREEN? THEY'RE NOT SET, BUT WE KIND OF LIMIT THEM TO 10 OR 20 MINUTES AT A TIME. BUT THE DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD IS THAT THE GAMES` SOME OF THE GAMES ARE HIGHLY EDUCATIONAL, SOME OF THE GAMES ARE NOT, BUT THE YOUTUBE STUFF ` A LOT OF IT IS EXTREMELY STIMULATING FOR HIM, FOR HIS TYPE OF MIND. SO HE'S LEARNING ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF STUFF. LIKE, HE KNOWS EVERY MODEL OF VACUUM CLEANER AND HOW IT WORKS AND HOW YOU PUT IT TOGETHER AND HOW YOU PUT IT BACK. BUT EQUALLY, HE CAN STUMBLE ACROSS A WHOLE LOT OF RUBBISH ON YOUTUBE, SO YOU'VE GOT TO KINDA CONTROL IT. SO IT'S THIS KIND OF` THERE IS A GREAT USE FOR IT, BUT THERE'S ALSO A GREAT DEATH SPIRAL. MANAGING IT IS REALLY TRICKY. PRISONS IS A BIG ISSUE HERE. GOING BACK TO YOUR FELLOWSHIP, TO YOUR ENTREPRENEURIAL IDEAS, HOW DO YOU REACH THAT` HOW DO YOU MAKE THOSE PEOPLE NOT GO DOWN THAT ROAD, NOT GROW THAT PRISON POPULATION? WELL, IT'S ACTUALLY SOMETHING I'M LOOKING INTO AT THE MOMENT. I WAS WITH ANNAH STRETTON FROM RAW, WHO HAS A PROGRAMME THAT WORKS WITH WOMEN IN PRISONS, LAST WEEK. LAST YEAR I WAS IN THE BRIXTON PRISONS LOOKING AT THEIR DRUG AND RECOVERY UNITS AND THEIR ENTREPRENEURIAL ACTIVITIES. THEY HAVE A BAKERY. THEY HAVE A CAFE AND A RESTAURANT. AND I THINK I'M INTERESTED IN EXPLORING POSSIBLE ENTREPRENEURIAL-TYPE ACTIVITIES WITHIN PRISONS SO THAT PEOPLE CAN START TO LEARN HOW TO BUILD A SMALL BUSINESS OR AN ENTERPRISE. IT GETS THEM ENGAGED IN AN IDEA BEYOND WHAT'S WITHIN THOSE WALLS. AND, GOING BACK TO YOUR COMMENT ABOUT SCREEN TIME, I THINK THERE IS AN ELEMENT OF IF THEY'RE NOT ACCESSING THE INTERNET, WHICH THEY'RE NOT REALLY ALLOWED TO DO, THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO EDUCATE AND INSPIRE THEMSELVES WITH A WHOLE LOT OF CONTENT THAT, IF THEY WERE, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO DO. SO I THINK THERE'S INTERESTING POSSIBILITIES TO CREATE A CERTAIN TYPE OF INTRANET ` OR AN INTERNAL INTERNET ` WHERE, WHEN YOU'RE IN PRISON, YOU CAN GET INSPIRED AND LEARN AND DO COURSES AND THINGS USING ONLINE AND DIGITAL. AND I KNOW OF A COMPANY IN AMERICA THAT'S DOING THAT AND DRASTICALLY REDUCING RECIDIVISM RATES FROM THAT. WE RECENTLY HAD LOCAL BODY ELECTIONS HERE, AND I THINK LESS THAN 40% OF PEOPLE TURNED OUT. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON TECHNOLOGY WITH VOTING? VOTING ONLINE? THERE'S STATISTICS WHETHER IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE OR NOT IN TERMS OF THE ACTUAL VOTE. BUT FROM WHERE WE ARE, WHICH IS 20-SOMETHING YEARS ON FROM THE INTERNET, IT SHOULD BE JUST BASICALLY AVAILABLE, RIGHT? EVERYTHING ELSE WE CAN DO. IF THE BANKS CAN MANAGE OUR MONEY USING AN ONLINE APP, THEN WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO MANAGE A VOTE. DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD UP THE NUMBERS? THAT WOULD GET PEOPLE ENGAGED IN VOTING? MY GUT FEELING IS 'HOW CAN IT NOT?' THERE'S A WHOLE GENERATION THAT BASICALLY LIVES ONLINE, AND ASKING THEM TO POST SOMETHING IN IS LIKE` IT'S A JOKE, YOU KNOW? I DON'T KNOW WHEN THE LAST TIME I POSTED ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE ELECTION FORM. TO ME, IT'S LIKE YOU CAN ONLY ADD A CERTAIN DEMOGRAPHIC THAT DIDN'T OR COULDN'T BE BOTHERED. WOULD YOU EVER LOOK INTO POLITICS YOURSELF? AT THE MOMENT I'M JUST PASSIONATE ABOUT LOOKING AT ISSUES, LOOKING AT WAYS AND CREATIVE WAYS TO EXPLORE THEM, BUT I'M ALSO NERVOUS THAT THERE ISN'T THE RIGHT TYPE OF LEADERSHIP APPEARING, SO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET NZ TO THE RIGHT PLACE THIS CENTURY, I'M KIND OF OPEN TO. WHERE WOULD YOU SORT OF PUT YOURSELF ON THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM, WERE YOU TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD? I'M FORWARD, YOU KNOW. I'M NOT LEFT, RIGHT, RED, BLUE, GREEN. I'M FORWARD AND PROGRESS AND EMPATHY AND EQUALITY. BUT I'M ALSO A BUSINESS PERSON OR ENTREPRENEUR; I UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF MONEY AND MAKING MONEY AND INNOVATION. BUT I JUST THINK MAYBE ALL THIS LEFT, RIGHT, RED, BLUE STUFF IS NOT SUITABLE FOR THIS CENTURY ANY MORE. ON THE SUBJECT OF POLITICS, YOU SPEND MOST OF YOUR TIME, OR A GREAT DEAL OF YOUR TIME, IN THE UNITED STATES. I'VE GOT TO ASK YOU ` AT THE MOMENT, IS THIS ULTIMATELY GOING TO BE A VERY BAD OR VERY GOOD` IRRESPECTIVE OF WHO WINS` EITHER WAY, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE GOOD, RIGHT? I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENED IS IT'S A SITUATION WHERE ON ONE SIDE, AMERICA'S LEFT TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE BEHIND, RIGHT? THEY'VE JUST LEFT THEM BEHIND, AND THEY'VE GOT NOT ENOUGH WORK, NOT ENOUGH QUALITY OF LIVING, AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE TO LOOK. IT'S TOTAL FRUSTRATION NOW AT A POINT WHERE THEY'RE NOT EVEN SEEING SENSE. IT'S LIKE, 'IT DOESN'T WORK. I'M VOTING FOR THIS WAY.' AND ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU'VE BASICALLY GOT THE EXAMPLE OF CLOSER AND CLOSER, TIGHTER AND TIGHTER SCREWS AROUND THE LEAVERS OF POWER. YOU HAVE BUSH AND CLINTON. LIKE, HOW CAN TWO FAMILIES END UP HAVING FOUR PRESIDENTS IN 30 YEARS? AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THIS IDEA OF YOU CAN JUST SPEND AS MUCH MONEY AS IT TAKES TO BE PRESIDENT. I THINK THIS IS THE FIRST BILLION-DOLLAR CAMPAIGN. PUT IT ALL ON THE TABLE, AND THIS IS WHAT WE'VE GOT. IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT THE RESULT IS AFTER NOVEMBER 8, THE FACT THAT DONALD TRUMP GOT THERE, IS STILL THERE AND IS STILL THE SECOND CONTENDER FOR IT ` WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT SOCIETY IN THE STATES AT THE MOMENT? I THINK IT'S JUST DEVOID OF HOPE. THEY ARE GRASPING AT 'WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR GREAT COUNTRY?' AND ON THE COAST, WHICH IS WHERE I MOSTLY SPEND MY TIME, YOU DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THAT CONVERSATION AS MUCH. BUT I HAVE A SMALL FARMHOUSE IN UPSTATE NEW YORK, AND THERE'S` I'M SURROUNDED BY TRUMP SIGNS. SO IT'S NOT THAT FAR, YOU KNOW? AND THE QUESTION IS NOT 'HOW DO YOU JUST DEFEAT THEM AND GET OVER IT?' THE REAL QUESTION IS 'HOW DO YOU HAVE THE EMPATHY TO UNDERSTAND?' WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR MIND TO GET TO THAT POINT?' BECAUSE THERE'S NO POINT IN IGNORING IT BECAUSE IT'S HALF OF AMERICA. AND THAT'S THE CHALLENGE, REALLY, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T JUST PRETEND IT DOESN'T EXIST. WE LOOKED AT SOME BIG ISSUES IN OUR FORESTRY INDUSTRY EARLIER IN THE PROGRAMME. AFTER THE BREAK, WE HAVE YOUR FEEDBACK. AND WE LOOK BACK IN POLITICAL HISTORY at A GOVERNMENT UNDER PRESSURE OVER NATIVE LOGGING ON THE WEST COAST. NEXT. YOUR FEEDBACK NOW, AND LOTS ON THE ISSUE OF LOSING CONTROL OF OUR FORESTS. RAEWYN SCOTT ON FACEBOOK SAYS ` NIGEL YEE POINTS OUT THAT ` BUT A DIFFERENT VIEW FROM KIMIORA COLLIER. SHE SAYS ` HERE THE CLEAR-FELLING OF NATIVE TIMBER WAS A HOT POLITICAL ISSUE IN THE '70S AND '80S. POLITICAL PRESSURE EVENTUALLY PUT AN END TO MOST OF THAT LOGGING, BUT IT ALSO MEANT THE END OF A WAY OF LIFE FOR MANY NZERS, ESPECIALLY THOSE ON THE WEST COAST OF THE SOUTH ISLAND. HERE'S A STORY ABOUT A PROTEST AGAINST NATIVE LOGGING N THE COAST BACK IN 1997. THE REPORTER IS AINSLIE TALBOT. WEEK NINE, DEEP IN THE WEST COAST BUSH. 18 NATIVE-FOREST-ACTION PROTESTERS ARE STILL CLINGING TO THEIR TREETOP PLATFORMS, SOME 40M ABOVE THE GROUND. IT'S MOSTLY A TEDIOUS, DAMP, UNCOMFORTABLE VIGIL, AIMED AT ENDING ALL NATIVE LOGGING ON THE WEST COAST BY STATE-OWNED TIMBERLANDS. WE'RE GOING TO CARRY ON UNTIL THERE'S A RESOLUTION TO THIS ISSUE ` A RESOLUTION AT A GOVERNMENTAL LEVEL ` THAT SAYS, 'OK, TIMBERLANDS, STOP THE LOGGING.' THE PROTESTERS HAVE BLOCKED TIMBERLANDS FROM LIFTING 600 TONS OF RIMU, WHICH IS NOW IN DANGER OF ROTTING ON THE FLOOR OF THE CHARLESTON FOREST, RIMU THAT'S NEEDED TO MEET MILL CONTRACTS AND PROVIDE WORK. CURRENTLY THERE'S PROBABLY ABOUT 10% OF THE WEST COAST EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES RELYING ON TIMBERLANDS' WORK. THE GOVERNMENT IS CONSIDERING A SOLUTION, BUT SOE MINISTER JENNY SHIPLEY SAYS THE WEST COAST ACCORD HAS ALREADY RESULTED IN THE PROTECTION OF 120,000HA OF NATIVE FOREST SINCE 1986. MEANWHILE, THESE PROTESTERS SAY THE WINTER CHILL WON'T DAMPEN THEIR SPIRITS. IT REALLY HURTS TO COME IN AND SEE THE DESTRUCTION THAT'S HAPPENED IN HERE. TIMBERLANDS IS THREATENING LEGAL ACTION TO RECOVER COSTS, WHICH ESTIMATES RUN TO AT LEAST $100,000. WAKA HUIA IS NEXT. REMEMBER, Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35 PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS. THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT 9. CAPTIONS BY PHILIP MCKIBBIN AND INGRID LAUDER. CAPTIONS WERE MADE POSSIBLE WITH FUNDING FROM NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2016