MORENA. GOOD MORNING, AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M GREG BOYED. TODAY ` I PLEDGE TO EVERY CITIZEN OF THIS LAND THAT I WILL BE PRESIDENT FOR ALL AMERICANS, AND THIS IS SO IMPORTANT TO ME. PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD J TRUMP ` A NEW KIND OF SHOCK AND AWE FROM THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. WE'VE GOT AN EXCELLENT LINE-UP OF INTERVIEWS FROM POLITICAL EDITOR CORIN DANN, REPORTING FROM THE US. FIRST, NZ BUSINESSMAN CHRIS LIDDELL. HE'S BEEN WORKING WITH THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN ON ITS TRANSITION TO THE WHITE HOUSE. HE HAS AN INSIDE VIEW ON WHAT A HIS PRESIDENCY MIGHT LOOK LIKE. ARE YOU GETTING A SENSE OF CONFIDENCE THAT THE RIGHT SORT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE AROUND HIM? YES. THEN OUR MAN IN WASHINGTON, TIM GROSER ` HOW WILL HE FORGE OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NEW AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION? THERE ARE VARIOUS WAYS TO COMMIT POLITICAL SUICIDE. ONE WOULD BE TO ANSWER ON CAMERA YOUR QUESTION DIRECTLY. AND FORMER CLOSE CLINTON AIDE BASIL SMIKLE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NEW YORK STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. HIS TAKE ON WHY IT WENT SO WRONG FOR HILLARY CLINTON AND WHY SOME DEMOCRATS DIDN'T SUPPORT HER ON ELECTION DAY. DUE TO THE LIVE NATURE OF Q+A, WE APOLOGISE FOR THE LACK OF CAPTIONS FOR SOME ITEMS. AND OF COURSE OUR EXCELLENT PANEL IS BACK ` POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR RAYMOND MILLER FROM AUCKLAND UNIVERSITY; FRAN O'SULLIVAN, HEAD OF BUSINESS FOR NZME; AND NICK LEGGETT, FORMER PORIRUA MAYOR, NOW A POLITICAL STRATEGY AND COMMUNICATIONS CONSULTANT. PROTESTS AGAINST PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP HAVE CONTINUED ACROSS THE UNITED STATES. IN PORTLAND, OREGON, A MAN WAS INJURED IN A SHOOTING DURING A PROTEST MARCH EARLY SATURDAY. THE VICTIM'S INJURIES AREN'T BELIEVED TO BE LIFE THREATENING. PROTESTS ALSO TOOK PLACE IN GERMANY WHERE HUNDREDS OF DEMONSTRATORS GATHERED AT BERLIN'S BRANDENBURG GATE. BUT FIRST, THE QUESTION EVERYONE WANTS AN ANSWER TO ` WHAT WILL PRESIDENT TRUMP DO? WE SPOKE TO THE ONE NZER WHO MIGHT ACTUALLY KNOW. NZ BUSINESSMAN CHRIS LIDDELL HAS BEEN A CFO TO BOTH MICROSOFT AND GENERAL MOTORS. HE'S ALSO GOT INVOLVED IN REPUBLICAN POLITICS. IN 2012, HE WORKED ON MITT ROMNEY'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. MORE RECENTLY, HE'S BEEN PROVIDING ADVICE TO BOTH THE TRUMP AND CLINTON CAMPS ON THE TRANSITION TO THE WHITE HOUSE. CORIN DANN CAUGHT UP WITH HIM IN NEW YORK AND ASKED WHETHER NZERS SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT A DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENCY. IN THE SHORT TERM, THERE'LL BE A LOT OF NOISE ` WHO'S GOING TO GET WHAT POSITIONS, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS ` WHAT ARE THE UNDERLYING ISSUES WE'RE FACING AS A COUNTRY AND AS A WORLD, AND HOW IS THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY GOING TO ADDRESS THOSE? SO, YES, THERE'LL BE UNCERTAINTY FOR A PERIOD, BUT I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD BE FOCUSING NOT ON THE SHORT-TERM AND ALL THE NOISE AND THE THEATRE, BUT ON THE LONG-TERM AND WHAT THE PRESIDENCY MIGHT MEAN FOR THE BIG ISSUES THAT WE FACE AS A COUNTRY. A LOT OF PEOPLE AND A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE, FOR INSTANCE, PROTESTING HERE, THEIR ANXIETY IS ABOUT WHAT'S PERCEIVED AS RACISM, THE XENOPHOBIA, AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS ` THE RHETORIC OF THE CAMPAIGN. MM-HM. DO YOU BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE OF THAT FROM A DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENCY, OR WAS THAT PART OF THE CAMPAIGN, AND HE WILL BE A DIFFERENT PRESIDENT? I THINK YOU'LL SEE A MUCH MORE MODERATE POSITION. HE IS REALLY WANTING TO DO SOME THINGS, BUT DONALD TRUMP'S A VERY ATYPICAL PRESIDENT. HE'S NOT A TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN. HE'S NOT A TRADITIONAL DEMOCRAT. HE'S A MIXTURE OF BOTH OF THEM. AND IF YOU WANT TO TAKE AN OPTIMISTIC VIEW, AND I'M OPTIMISTIC, I THINK HE WILL ACTUALLY COME UP WITH SOME POLICIES THAT BOTH SIDES WILL BE WILLING TO LOOK AT. NOW, NOT ALL OF THEM ARE GOING TO BE POPULAR. THINGS LIKE ` HE WILL BE ANTI-TRADE, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT INFRASTRUCTURE SPENDING ` HE'S PROBABLY LIKELY TO HAVE THAT AS ONE OF THE THINGS HE'S GOING TO BE DOING INITIALLY, AND BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE ARE WANTING TO DO THAT, SO I THINK YOU'LL FIND HIM COMING OUT OF THE GATES PRETTY QUICKLY. I'VE BEEN TALKING TO PEOPLE INSIDE THE CAMPAIGN. THEY'RE FOCUSED ON THE FIRST 100 DAYS. WITH PRESIDENCIES, REALLY, THE TONE OF THE PRESIDENCY IS SET IN THE FIRST 100 TO 200 DAYS. HOW MANY OF THOSE POLICIES OF DONALD TRUMP ARE REALISTIC ` THE BUILDING OF THE WALL, THE DEPORTING MILLIONS OF MIGRANTS? THERE'S A LOT OF RHETORIC, AND THAT WILL DISAPPEAR. BUT AGAIN, YOU COME BACK ` WHAT ARE THE BIG ISSUES WE'RE FACING AS A COUNTRY AND AS A WORLD AT THE MOMENT, IN THE SITUATION OF NZ, TO SOME EXTENT? INEQUALITY, THE HOLLOWING OUT OF THE MIDDLE CLASS AND THE ROLE OF THE GOVERNMENT IN SOLVING THOSE ISSUES. AND THAT'S WHAT THE ELECTION WAS ALL ABOUT. IT WASN'T ABOUT THE BARKING AND THE THEATRE. IT WAS ABOUT A DEEP CONCERN ABOUT A HUGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ABOUT THOSE BIG ISSUES. AND THE WAY IN WHICH PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION THAT ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES, NOT ALL THAT HYPERBOLE, THAT WILL DEFINE WHETHER THEY'RE SUCCESSFUL OR NOT. WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN IN THE CONTEXT OF GROWTH FOR AMERICA? NZ IS VERY DEPENDENT ON A STRONGLY GROWING U.S. DO YOU THINK AMERICAN GROWTH IS SAFE? CAN IT START TO SPEED UP? WHAT'S YOUR LEVEL OF OPTIMISM THERE? WELL, I THINK WE'RE IN A GLOBALLY RELATIVELY MODEST GROWTH PERIOD. I JUST THINK THAT'S THE REALITY OF THE ENVIRONMENT THAT WE'RE IN. COULD IT SPEED UP A BIT? YES, IT COULD. COULD INFRASTRUCTURE SPENDING HELP THAT? YES. BUT AGAIN, PEOPLE` IT'S NOT GOING TO BE SOME QUICK FIX TO ALL THESE BIG ISSUES. THESE ARE BIG FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES. HOW WORRYING IS THIS ANTI-TRADE SENTIMENT, THOUGH, FROM DONALD TRUMP? I MEAN, NZ RELIES ON FREE TRADING. ARE YOU WORRIED THAT THERE'LL BE MORE PROTECTIONISM? OK, WELL, PERSONAL VIEW ` I THINK THE DAYS OF UNBRIDLED FREE TRADE AND UNBRIDLED FREE MARKETS ARE OVER. I WORKED IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR ALL MY LIFE, SO I'M A BELIEVER IN FREE MARKETS, BUT NOT UNBRIDLED FREE MARKETS. AND WE'VE HAD 30 YEARS SINCE THE MID-'80S, BOTH IN NZ AND HERE IN THE US, AND GLOBALLY, OF BASICALLY FREE MARKETS BEING DRIVING THE WHOLE THINKING, THE WHOLE RHETORIC AROUND AND GOVERNING. I THINK THOSE DAYS ARE OVER, PERSONALLY. I THINK WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH A CIRCULAR TREND OF A MUCH MORE RESTRAINED FREE MARKET. WORKING TOGETHER, WE WILL BEGIN THE URGENT TAKE OF REBUILDING OUR NATION AND RENEWING THE AMERICAN DREAM. IT'S INTERESTING, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT FOR A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT AND A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS. YOU'RE SAYING WE'RE GOING TO SEE A GOVERNMENT THAT MOVES AWAY FROM THAT NEO-LIBERAL MODEL AND BECOMES MORE INTERVENTIONIST? YEAH. I THINK THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT AND THE WORLD THAT WE'RE GOING INTO IS GOING TO BE MUCH DIFFERENT FROM THE WORLD THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE LAST 30 YEARS. AGAIN, PEOPLE WORRY ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TOMORROW. WORRY WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN OVER THE NEXT FIVE, 10 YEARS. WHAT ARE THE ISSUES OF OUR GENERATION? ONE OF THE BIG ISSUES IS WHAT'S THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT IN SOLVING THE PROBLEM? WHAT WE SAW IN THE ELECTION WAS PEOPLE SAYING THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE. THIS WHOLE CONCEPT OF TOTALLY FREE MARKETS AND GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION IN CERTAIN AREAS HASN'T WORKED. SO, YES, IT'S EASY TO FOCUS ON ALL THE NOISE, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE ISSUES, PEOPLE ARE SAYING, 'IT DOESN'T WORK FOR US ANYMORE.' AND SO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS SOMEONE COME IN WHO'S NON-TRADITIONAL, WHO'S NOT A TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN, NOT A TRADITIONAL DEMOCRAT, AND SAYING ` YEAH, TO BE DETERMINED WHETHER IT BE SUCCESSFUL ` 'I'M GOING TO TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT.' SO, YES, I THINK FREE MARKETS, TPP, ARE EXTREMELY CHALLENGED IN THIS ENVIRONMENT. FOR SOMEWHERE LIKE NZ THAT'S HAD EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE ONE-ON-ONE TRADE DEALS, FAIR DEALS, ARE STILL ON THE TABLE, BUT THIS CONCEPT OF UNBRIDLED FREE MARKETS, I THINK, IS A SECULAR TREND AGAINST THAT. DO YOU THINK THAT WILL SPREAD TO NZ? DO YOU THINK WE'LL SEE IT SPREAD OUT ACROSS THE WORLD, THAT GOVERNMENTS WILL STEP IN? GOVERNMENTS WILL CHANGE THEIR ROLE, YES. THEY'LL BE MORE INTERVENTIONAL. BUT GOVERNMENTS HAVE A ROLE IN THE ECONOMY REGARDLESS. THEY REPRESENT 30% OR 40% ANY COUNTRY, SO THE WAY IN WHICH GOVERNMENTS USE THEIR POWER IS GOING TO CHANGE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT. WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE, THOUGH? I MEAN, DONALD TRUMP'S TALKING ABOUT ON THE ONE HAND BIG TAX CUTS, BUT ON THE OTHER, BIG INFRASTRUCTURE SPENDING. I THINK THAT INTERVENTION LOOKS MUCH MORE FOCUSED AT SOLVING WHAT ARE THE BIG ISSUES, WHICH IS THE HOLLOWING OUT OF THE MIDDLE CLASS AND INEQUALITY. SO I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO SEE TRADE PROTECTIONISM AND DRIVING TOWARDS JOBS FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS, AND RETRAINING IN THE MIDDLE CLASS IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THE BIG POLICIES FOR ANY SUCCESSFUL GOVERNMENT GOING FORWARD. SO HOW DOES THAT WORK WITH CHINA? THEY HAVE A BIG EXPORT-FOCUSED GROWTH STRATEGY. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO LIKE THAT, ARE THEY? NO. NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. AND THAT'S PART OF THE ATTRACTION FROM TRUMP'S POINT OF VIEW. HE GOES OUT AND SAYS, 'CHINA'S BEEN RAPING US FOR 10 OR 20 YEARS, 'AND I WANT FAIR TRADE. I WANT FREE TRADE.' NOW, THAT'S A POPULIST MESSAGE, YES, BUT THE REALITY IS THAT THE US HAS A HUGE TRADE IMBALANCE WITH CHINA. SO HERE, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE MUCH MORE INTERVENTION ` I DON'T KNOW HOW. BUT THERE'LL BE RETALIATION, SURELY. WELL, WE'LL SEE. WE'LL SEE EXACTLY WHAT IT IS. BUT IT'S GOING TO CHANGE. LET'S SAY HE FOLLOWED THROUGH ON A PROMISE OF, WHAT, A 45% TARIFF OR 35% TARIFF OF IMPORTS ON CHINESE GOODS. THAT WOULD SURELY JUST WHACK UP PRICES FOR AMERICANS AT WAL-MART. THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. BUT AGAIN, PEOPLE GO EXTREME, RIGHT? YOU TAKE THE EXTREMES OF SOME OF THE NOISE THAT YOU HEAR ABOUT. THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. BUT WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN IS A TOTAL RESHAPING OF THE TRADE RELATIONSHIP IN A NEW WAY AND A MUCH MORE BILATERAL WORLD WHERE WE'RE DOING DIFFERENT TRADE DEALS. FOLKS, IT'S A RIGGED SYSTEM. DO YOU THINK HE'S GOT THE TEMPERAMENT AND THE CHARACTER TO BE A GOOD PRESIDENT, GIVEN WHAT WE'VE SEEN? TO BE DETERMINED. BUT, AGAIN, GO BACK TO WHAT HILLARY CLINTON SAYS, AND I SAY, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT HER SPEECH FROM YESTERDAY. I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE CLASSIEST SPEECHES I THINK I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE, AND SHE SAID THE PEOPLE HAVE CHOSEN DONALD TRUMP, AND WE HAVE TO GIVE HIM THE CHANCE TO SEE WHETHER HE CAN DO WHAT HE SAYS HE'S GOING TO DO. WE NOW ACTUALLY HAVE TO GIVE HIM THE OPPORTUNITY. ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS IS WHO HE SURROUNDS HIMSELF WITH. A LOT OF THE WORK I DID WAS ON TRANSITIONS. PEOPLE FOCUS ON THE PRESIDENT, AS THEY SHOULD, BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT'S THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON, BUT THE PRESIDENT WORKS THROUGH THESE HUGE NUMBERS OF OTHER PEOPLE RUNNING VARIOUS DEPARTMENTS AND SO FORTH, SO WHO HE STARTS TO SURROUND HIMSELF, HOW HE MANAGES THOSE PEOPLE, WILL DEFINE HIS SUCCESS. THAT IS INTERESTING, BECAUSE IT APPEARS HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO APPEASE THE CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN RIGHT, PRESUMABLY ` THE NEW GINGRICHES AND THE OTHERS EVEN MORE EXTREME. ARE THOSE GUYS GOING TO HAVE TO BE IN THERE, DO YOU THINK? I DON'T THINK HE HAS TO APPEASE ANYONE. I DON'T THINK HE'S AN APPEASER. I THINK HE'S GOING TO DO EXACTLY WHAT HE THINKS IS RIGHT AND SURROUND HIMSELF WITH THE PEOPLE WHO HE THINKS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO SORT THAT OUT. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS ON WHO HE MIGHT BE PUTTING THERE? I'VE GOT SOME, BECAUSE I'VE BEEN TALKING TO THE PEOPLE INSIDE HIS TRANSITION TEAM, AND I'VE BEEN KEEPING, INFORMALLY, ASSOCIATED WITH HIM, SO I HAVE SOME SENSE OF IT, BUT` ANY IDEAS? CAN YOU GIVE US ANY IDEAS? NO, NO. I'LL PUT IT THIS WAY, THEN. AS A BUSINESSMAN, DO YOU GET THE SENSE THAT HE IS PUTTING THE RIGHT PEOPLE AROUND HIM? YES. YEAH, I THINK HE WILL BRING IN A VERY INTERESTING MIX OF ESTABLISHMENT PEOPLE WHO CAN GET THINGS DONE IN WASHINGTON AND NEW PEOPLE WHO HAVE A TOTALLY FRESH PERSPECTIVE AND WHO WILL SHAKE THINGS UP. WHETHER HE'LL GET EXACTLY THAT RIGHT BALANCE, I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHO HE'S GOING TO APPOINT AND THINGS. BUT HE WILL BRING A MIXTURE OF PEOPLE IN, AND HE HAS A VERY BIG ASPIRATION TO CHANGE WASHINGTON. YOU` AS YOU MENTIONED, YOU'VE DONE SOME WORK ON TRANSITION. YOU'VE WORKED FOR THE MITT ROMNEY CAMPAIGN FOUR YEARS AGO. WHERE IS THE ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICAN PARTY NOW? WHERE DO THEY STAND IN THIS? COULD THEY END UP BEING AN OPPOSITION, A CHECK ON DONALD TRUMP IF HE DOESN'T DO A GOOD JOB? I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE FASCINATING. I MEAN, THIS WASN'T REALLY A WIN FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. THIS WAS A WIN FOR DONALD TRUMP. LET'S BE FRANK ABOUT IT. IT WAS AS MUCH A MIDDLE FINGER TO THE ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICAN PARTY AS IT WAS A MIDDLE FINGER TO THE ESTABLISHMENT DEMOCRATIC PARTY. SO I THINK HOW THE REPUBLICAN PARTY COALESCES AROUND DONALD TRUMP WILL BE VERY INTERESTING. NOW, WE HAVE AN UNUSUAL SITUATION IN THAT THE PRESIDENCY IS REPUBLICAN, THE HOUSE IS REPUBLICAN AND THE SENATE IS REPUBLICAN, SO THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ACTUALLY DO THINGS COLLECTIVELY, WHICH IS UNIQUE FOR SOME TIME. HOW THEY ACTUALLY DO THAT WILL BE VERY INTERESTING, BECAUSE A LOT OF THE THINGS HE'S TALKING ABOUT ` BEING ANTI-TRADE IS NOT EXACTLY A STRONG REPUBLICAN PARTY; INFRASTRUCTURE SPENDING ` YOU KNOW, A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT IS NOT TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN. SO THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF DEALS AND A LOT OF TRADE-OFFS HERE. THAT'S A REALLY` THAT HORSE-TRADING HAS ALREADY STARTED. THAT HAPPENS VERY QUICKLY. BUT YOU'VE GOT TO REALISE AROUND HERE THAT ALL THE FIGHTING THAT GOES ON AROUND THE PARTY, THAT STOPS THE DAY AFTER THE ELECTION, AND PEOPLE START TO COALESCE AROUND THE NEW EQUILIBRIUM, OR THE NEW ORDER. THIS IS AN ENORMOUS EVENT, ISN'T IT? HOW SIGNIFICANT IS IT, IN YOUR VIEW? I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT EVENTS IN MY LIFETIME. I THINK IT'S AMAZING. THIS IN COMBINATION WITH BREXIT ` THIS IS BREXIT TIMES 10. BUT IT'S A LOT OF THE SAME ISSUES. YOU KNOW, BREXIT WASN'T A VOTE FOR WHETHER YOU WERE IN OR OUT OF THE EU. IT WAS A VOTE AGAINST THE ESTABLISHMENT GOVERNMENT AND THE INABILITY OF THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT CONFIGURATION TO SOLVE THE BIG ISSUES OF OUR TIME. SO I THINK THIS IS MONUMENTAL, NOT BECAUSE OF WHETHER IT'S PRESIDENT TRUMP OR NOT, BUT WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT PEOPLE'S BELIEF IN OUR GOVERNMENT GOING FORWARD. IS THIS A WARNING, TOO, FOR THE NZ GOVERNMENT THAT IF THEY IGNORE INEQUALITY, THEY IGNORE THE MIDDLE-CLASS CONCERNS, THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE SOME MAJOR PROBLEMS? I THINK IT'S A WARNING FOR ANY GOVERNMENT. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE BIG ISSUES, IF YOU AREN'T SOLVING THE INEQUALITY ISSUE; IF YOU AREN'T DEALING WITH THE HOLLOWING OUT OF THE MIDDLE CLASS; IF YOU AREN'T FACING BIG ISSUES WHICH AFFECT PEOPLE EMOTIONALLY, LIKE IMMIGRATION, THEN YOU ARE BLIND TO THE BIG ISSUES WE'RE DEALING WITH. CHRIS LIDELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. FANTASTIC. THANK YOU. CHRIS LIDDELL SPEAKING TO CORIN DANN IN NEW YORK. SEND US YOUR THOUGHTS. WE'RE ON TWITTER @NZQANDA. YOU CAN EMAIL US AT Q+A@TVNZ.CO.NZ OR TEXT YOUR THOUGHTS AND FIRST NAME TO 2211. KEEP THEM BRIEF ` EACH TEXT COSTS 50C. UP NEXT ` NZ'S AMBASSADOR TO THE US ` TIM GROSER ` HIS TAKE ON THE PRESIDENT-ELECT AND HOW HIS POLICIES WILL AFFECT US. AFTER A 2AM FINISH AT TRUMP TOWER ON ELECTION NIGHT, POLITICAL EDITOR CORIN DANN AND HIS CREW GOT ON AN EARLY-MORNING TRAIN TO WASHINGTON DC, WHERE AMBASSADORS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD WERE ABSORBING THE NEWS OF A TRUMP PRESIDENCY. OUR AMBASSADOR ` TIM GROSER ` NOW STARTS THE JOB OF FORGING NZ'S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NEW TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. CORIN DANN ASKED HIM WHAT HIS APPROACH WILL BE. I THINK THE FORMAL POSITION IS CRYSTAL CLEAR. THE PRIME MINISTER'S ESSENTIALLY SAID THIS. LET ME JUST PUT IT IN MY OWN WORDS. I MEAN, WE, AS THE NZ GOVERNMENT, WHETHER IT'S BEEN A LABOUR-LED OR A NATIONAL-LED GOVERNMENT, ALWAYS ESTABLISHED THE BEST POSSIBLE CONSTRUCTIVE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOVERNMENTS IN CONTROL OF THEIR COUNTRY, EVEN WHEN THEY'RE DICTATORSHIPS, AS THE ONLY WAY TO DEFEND NZERS' INTERESTS, AND THIS IS THE ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE MOST IMPORTANT DEMOCRACY IN THE WORLD, SO IT'S NOT EVEN A SERIOUS QUESTION THAT WE WILL DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN NOW START TO BUILD OUR LINKAGES WITH THE NEW ADMINISTRATION. WHAT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, THOUGH? HE HAS NO EXPERIENCE AS A POLITICIAN. HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT? HE ALSO COMES HAVING RUN A PRETTY DIVISIVE CAMPAIGN, HAVING SAID SOME PRETTY AWFUL THINGS, AND A LOT OF NZERS ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT IT. HOW DOES NZ NOW PROCEED IN ITS DEALINGS WITH MR TRUMP? WELL, WE WILL APPROACH THAT PROFESSIONALLY, OBVIOUSLY. WE WILL WAIT AND SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT. I HAPPEN TO KNOW QUITE WELL THE CURRENT US AMBASSADOR IN CHINA, MAX BAUCUS ` GREAT SENATOR ` AND I DEALT WITH HIM WHEN I WAS MINISTER OF TRADE A LOT. AND, YOU KNOW, MAX OBVIOUSLY HAS BEEN PUT RIGHT ON THE SPOT. 'WHAT ABOUT THIS 45% MASSIVE TARIFF AGAINST CHINA? 'IS IT GOING TO BE GLOBAL TRADE WAR?' AND SENATOR BAUCUS HAS SAID EXACTLY WHAT YOU THINK. 'LOOK, A LOT OF THINGS ARE SAID IN CAMPAIGNS. 'LET'S JUST SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT. 'WE HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA, ETC, ETC.' I THINK IT'S A METAPHOR FOR A LOT OF THESE THINGS. OF COURSE, SOME VERY EXTREME THINGS WERE SAID IN THIS CAMPAIGN. WE'RE WELL AWARE OF THEM, AND I COULD GIVE YOU A PLAUSIBLE, I THINK, INFORMED OPINION OF WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THEY TRIED TO CREATE A TRADE WAR WITH CHINA, WITHDRAW FROM THE WTO, WITHDRAW FROM THE PARIS CLIMATE CHANGE AGREEMENT. THE QUESTION IS... I DON'T THINK IT'S, 'WILL MR TRUMP AS PRESIDENT DO THIS?' I DON'T THINK IT'S A BINARY YES/NO THING. I THINK IT'LL BE A QUESTION OF HOW FAR WILL HE MOVE AMERICA FIRST? YOU KNOW, A VERY AGGRESSIVE AMERICAN POSTURING IN THESE DIFFERENT THEATRES. AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT, SO I'M GOING TO BE` I'M NOT BY NATURE VERY CAUTIOUS, BUT I AM GOING TO BE ON THIS OCCASION VERY CAUTIOUS. WELL, LET'S LOOK AT ONE OF THOSE ISSUES ` THE TRANS-PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT. DONALD TRUMP HAS MADE IT VERY CLEAR HE DOES NOT LIKE IT. IS THAT IT? IT'S ALL OVER? I THINK THE PRIME MINISTER PRIOR TO THIS ELECTION RESULT LAST NIGHT MADE IT CLEAR THAT ALREADY IT WAS GETTING VERY DIFFICULT AND A VICTORY BY MR TRUMP WOULD MAKE IT DOUBLY SO. BUT FOR PRECISELY THE REASON I'VE SAID, THAT I'M GOING TO BE EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS AND CONSERVATIVES. I'M NOT GOING TO GET OUT AHEAD OF THE POLITICAL MARKETS. THIS AFTERNOON I'M GOING DOWN TO SEE ONE OF THE UNITED STATES' ` I SUPPOSE THE WORLD'S ` MOST INFLUENTIAL BUSINESS LOBBYIST, WHO IS A REPUBLICAN, AND I'M GOING TO BE ASKING THAT QUESTION. SO I'M GOING TO BE PRETTY DISCREET, BUT THIS IS NOW LOOKING VERY DIFFICULT. THE THING IS IF HE IS GOING TO DO TRADE DEALS, HE'S MADE IT VERY CLEAR HE WANTS FAR BETTER DEALS FOR AMERICA. DOES THAT MEAN THAT NZ IS NOW WAY BACK DOWN THE PECKING ORDER? WHAT I'D SAY TO NZERS IS IF TPP DOESN'T HAPPEN, WE HAVE LOST A MAJOR OPPORTUNITY. BUT WE WERE NEVER BETTING THE RANCH ON THIS. WE PAID THE MORTGAGE OFF ON THE RANCH DECADES AGO BY ESTABLISHING THESE TRADING PLATFORMS WITH AUSTRALIA THROUGH CER, WITH CHINA, WITH TAIWAN, WITH KOREA, SOUTH-EAST ASIA, AND WE'VE GOT OTHERS UNDER NEGOTIATION. WE WERE, TO CONTINUE THE METAPHOR, COUNTING ON TPP TO BUILD AN EXTENSION TO THE RANCH. SO I DON'T THINK NZ IS IN SOME TYPE OF TRADE CRISIS OR ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY APPROACHING IT IF TPP DOESN'T GO AHEAD. IT'S JUST GOING TO BE, 'WHAT A BLOODY SHAME THAT WAS.' YEAH, BUT THAT'S SIGNIFICANT, THOUGH, ISN'T IT? OH, IT IS. BECAUSE IF NZ BECOMES LESS INTERTWINED WITH THE UNITED STATES, IS IT GOING TO HAVE TO NOW SHIFT EVEN MORE INTO ASIA? WELL, ON THE POLITICAL FRONT, THE ANSWER TO THAT IS VERY CLEAR ` NO. WE HAVE RIGHT NOW AS WE ARE TALKING ` IT WILL BE AFTER THIS PROGRAMME APPEARS ` THE SECRETARY OF STATE AND FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE ` GOT VERY CLOSE TO IT ` MR KERRY IN NZ RIGHT NOW HAVING TALKS WITH OUR GOVERNMENT. THEN IN MID-NOVEMBER WE HAVE THIS ENORMOUSLY IMPORTANT AND EMBLEMATIC VISIT OF THE SHIP TO NZ FOR THE FIRST 30 YEARS. SO ON THE POLITICAL SECURITY, INTEL SIDE, OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UNITED STATES IS LITERALLY IN THE BEST SHAPE. THIS IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THAT. IF ANYTHING, YOU'D ARGUE THAT A MORE MUSCULAR EMPHASIS ON 'WHO ARE AMERICA'S REAL FRIENDS?' MIGHT EVEN AUGMENT IT, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO. ON THE ECONOMIC SIDE, WELL, IF TPP DID FALL APART, WE'D HAVE TO REAPPRAISE OUR OPTIONS. BUT WHEN YOU SAY MAY GET MORE DEPENDENT ON ASIA, WE'VE ALSO GOT A PLAY GOING OFF INTO THE PACIFIC ALLIANCE WITH MEXICO, PERU, CHILE AND COLOMBIA. THAT WOULD TAKE ON AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SIGNIFICANCE FOR NZ. WE'VE STILL GOT THE EU FTA UNDER THE EARLY STAGES OF NEGOTIATION. I'VE CALLED IT IN THE PAST, WHEN I WAS IN THE GOVERNMENT FOLLOWING AN ASIA-FIRST BUT NOT AN ASIA-FIRST-AND-LAST STRATEGY. AND I DON'T THINK THIS CHANGES THAT. BUT THE BIGGER WORRY IS THAT IF DONALD TRUMP IS PROTECTIONIST IN HIS TONE AND THE WAY HE RUNS THE UNITED STATES, THAT IT SPREADS AND THAT OTHER COUNTRIES DO RETALIATE. ABSOLUTELY. OKAY, NOT A TRADE WAR NECESSARILY, BUT PERHAPS WE START TO SEE THE PROSPECT OF MORE FREE TRADE DEALS FALL OVER, COUNTRIES RETREAT, AND THERE'S RETALIATION. THAT'S A HUGE WORRY FOR US, ISN'T IT? THAT IS THE CONCERN. HOW FAR DOES THIS GO? I MEAN, DO I REALLY BELIEVE THAT HE'S GOING TO RIP THE NAFTA AND TRADE AGREEMENTS, WALK OUT OF THE WTO? IN MY HEART OF HEART, I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT, BECAUSE IT WOULD CAUSE SO MUCH DAMAGE TO THE UNITED STATES, THERE WOULD BE SO MUCH PUSHBACK FROM THE SORT OF BUSINESSPEOPLE I'M GOING TO SEE THIS AFTERNOON. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN TAKE FOR GRANTED A LITTLE BIT TOO EASILY SOME OF THE BENEFITS OF THE OPEN POLITICAL ECONOMY THAT WE'VE CREATED SINCE THE WAR, AND THERE'S EVERY REASON TO BE RATIONAL AND VERY, VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT DEFENDING THAT IN THE FACE OF MASSIVE OPPOSITION FROM BOTH THE FAR RIGHT AND THE FAR LEFT IN EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES. WHAT ABOUT THE GEOPOLITICS OF DONALD TRUMP'S VICTORY. HE HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT HE WANTS ALLIES, LIKE JAPAN, FOR EXAMPLE, TO PAY FOR THEIR OWN DEFENCE AND MILITARY. WHAT SORT OF AN IMPACT WILL THAT HAVE FOR A COUNTRY LIKE NZ? WELL, THERE ARE VARIOUS WAYS OF COMMITTING POLITICAL SUICIDE. ONE WOULD BE TO ANSWER ON CAMERA YOUR QUESTION DIRECTLY. I'M NOT PREPARED TO TALK ABOUT THIS IN THE BIGGER GLOBAL STRATEGIC SPHERE. BUT FOR NZ, WE'VE GOT A GREAT STORY TO TELL. I MEAN, HONESTLY, THE RECEPTION THAT I'VE HAD SINCE COMING UP HERE SINCE LEAVING POLITICS HERE IN TERMS OF OUR CONTRIBUTION TO TRAINING THE IRAQI SOLDIERS WHO ARE NOW TRYING TO GET IN AND ERADICATE ISIS IN MOSUL, TOWARDS THE REBOOT OF DEFENCE EXPENDITURE AND THE INCREASED EMPHASIS ON INTELLIGENCE ` NOT JUST AGAINST TERRORISTS BUT AGAINST DRUG THIEVES AND ALL MANNER OF UNDESIRABLES. LOOK, WE'VE GOT A GREAT STORY TO TELL. I BELIEVE THAT OUR PRIME MINISTER, OUR MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS, OUR MINISTER OF DEFENCE HAVE GOT A GREAT STORY TO TELL. I DON'T THINK WE'LL COME UNDER PRESSURE FROM THAT GROUND. BUT THE BIGGER THING I'LL STAY SILENT ON. WELL, WE SPOKE TO ROBERT O'BRIEN,... I KNOW HIM, YEP. ...FORMER POLICY ADVISER TO MITT ROMNEY AND OTHERS, AND HE SUGGESTED THAT IT WAS LIKELY THAT NZ WOULD COME UNDER SOME PRESSURE TO INCREASE ITS DEFENCE SPENDING, PERHAPS NOT EXPLICIT. BUT IS THAT THE TYPE OF THING NZ MAY FACE UNDER A DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENCY? THAT WOULD BE A LOGICAL INFERENCE, AND I KNOW ROBERT, TO DRAW FROM THE COMMENTS. BUT SINCE THE GOVERNMENT HAS ANNOUNCED A $20 BILLION INCREASE IN EXPENDITURE, WHICH I'M NOT SURE ROBERT WOULD BE FULLY ON TOP OF, WE'VE GOT A VERY GOOD RESPONSE, IF THAT'S THE... WE'VE GOT A GOOD TALE TO TELL. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE NZERS WHO MAY NOW BE THINKING, 'WHY DO WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UNITED STATES? 'WHY DO WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH DONALD TRUMP?' WELL, THERE MAY BE THOSE NZERS, THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN A HARD, SMALL CORE OF PEOPLE` BUT IT MIGHT BE BIGGER NOW. IT COULD BE BIGGER. WE'LL WAIT AND SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT. BUT, YOU KNOW, OUR POLLING AROUND THE ISSUE OF THE SHIP VISIT, FOR EXAMPLE, SHOWS INCREDIBLY POSITIVE. YEP, THERE MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT OF FALL-OFF. WE'LL WAIT AND SEE. ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, DO YOU KNOW DONALD TRUMP? NO. HOW DO YOU ENVISAGE NZ GETTING INTO THE OVAL OFFICE? DO YOU THINK THERE WILL BE A BIG, LONG QUEUE? I SHALL ATTEND THE INEVITABLE THAT I AND OTHER AMBASSADORS RECEIVE TO AN INAUGURATION. I'LL GO ALONG THERE AND PUT ON A BIG SMILE FOR NZERS. AND THEN I WILL TAKE WHATEVER OPPORTUNITIES THAT I HAVE TO MEET HIM. THEY WILL LIKELY BE CEREMONIAL. AN AMBASSADOR DOES NOT CALL ON THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. BUT CLEARLY THE PRIME MINISTER WILL BE SEEKING AT SOME STAGE, I IMAGINE, VISITS OR DISCUSSIONS AT INTERNATIONAL MEETINGS WITH HIM. MY ROLE WILL BE DOWN THE FOOD CHAIN TO TRY AND ESTABLISH RELATIONSHIPS WITH HIS SENIOR ADVISERS. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT AT THIS STAGE TO START TARGETING, BECAUSE, ACTUALLY, THE GENTLEMAN YOU MENTIONED IS ONE OF THE VERY FEW FOREIGN POLICY EXPERTS WHO HAVE NOT SIGNED A LETTER SAYING, 'I'M HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH MR TRUMP IF HE BECOMES THE PRESIDENT.' SO WE'RE DOING A LOT OF ANALYSIS NOW, ALONG WITH OTHER EMBASSIES, OF COURSE, WITH A LOT OF ADVICE FROM PEOPLE IN THIS TOWN WHO ARE EXPERTS. 'WHO ARE WE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH?' WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF DONALD TRUMP? I MEAN, DO YOU BELIEVE THE RHETORIC? IS HE THE POPULIST? WHAT IS HE? OH, I'LL PASS ON THAT. BUT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH HIM. YOU'VE GOT TO GET INSIDE HIS HEAD, DON'T YOU, BECAUSE YOU'VE TRY AND ANTICIPATE HOW HE'S GOING TO THINK? I'LL DEAL WITH HIM PROFESSIONALLY. DON'T FORGET, HE IS A DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED POLITICIAN. I'VE HAD TO DEAL, WHEN I WAS AMBASSADOR 25 YEARS AGO, WITH SUHARTO, WHO WAS AN AUTHORITARIAN ELECTED BY NOBODY. SO I'M USED TO DEALING WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE MUCH LESS MANDATED BY THEIR PEOPLE THAN DONALD TRUMP. I JUST WONDER WHETHER FOR NZERS WHO HEAR THE RHETORIC AND GET VERY SCARED, DO YOU THINK THERE WILL BE A MODERATION; THAT PERHAPS THE MODERATION THAT YOU USUALLY SEE IN A PRIMARY RACE, NOW THAT HE'S PRESIDENT` YES, OF COURSE, I EXPECT THERE TO BE A MODERATION, AND WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THAT IN HIS ACCEPTANCE SPEECH. HOW FAR THIS GOES AND FOR HOW LONG IS SOMETHING WE'LL HAVE TO SEE, BUT, OF COURSE, THERE WILL BE A MODERATION. TIM GROSER SPEAKING TO CORIN DANN IN WASHINGTON DC. LOTS TO TALK ABOUT WITH THE PANEL AFTER THE BREAK. WE ARE GOING TO BUILD A WALL. BELIEVE ME, WE ARE GOING TO BUILD A WALL. HE'S MADE SOME BIG PROMISES, BUT WHAT WILL A PRESIDENT TRUMP REALLY DO IN OFFICE, AND HOW WILL IT IMPACT ON US? THAT'S NEXT. OUR PANEL NOW, BUT FIRST, A REMINDER OF WHAT DONALD TRUMP HAS PROMISED TO DO ONCE HE TAKES OFFICE ON JANUARY 20TH. ON DAY ONE, I'M GOING TO BEGIN SWIFTLY REMOVING CRIMINAL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FROM THIS COUNTRY. I WOULD BUILD A GREAT WALL. AND NOBODY BUILDS WALLS BETTER THAN ME, BELIEVE ME. I WILL ANNOUNCE OUR WITHDRAWAL FROM THE TRANS-PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP ` A POTENTIAL DISASTER FOR OUR COUNTRY. WE ARE GOING TO DEFEAT THE BARBARIANS OF ISIS. DONALD J. TRUMP IS CALLING FOR A TOTAL AND COMPLETE SHUTDOWN OF MUSLIMS ENTERING THE UNITED STATES UNTIL OUR COUNTRY'S REPRESENTATIVES CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON. I WILL TAKE CARE OF WOMEN. I WILL DO EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO PROTECT OUR LGBTQ CITIZENS. WE'RE GONNA CANCEL BILLIONS IN PAYMENTS TO THE UNITED NATIONS CLIMATE CHANGE PROGRAMMES. IF I'M PRESIDENT, YOU'RE GONNA SEE 'MERRY CHRISTMAS' IN DEPARTMENT STORES, BELIEVE ME. I WILL LIFT THE RESTRICTIONS ON THE PRODUCTION OF $50 TRILLION WORTH OF JOB-PRODUCING AMERICAN ENERGY RESERVES. WE HAVE TO REBUILD OUR INFRASTRUCTURE. OUR BRIDGES, OUR ROADWAYS, OUR AIRPORTS. REDUCE OUR $18 TRILLION IN DEBT. WE WILL MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN. THANK YOU. THAT IS WHAT dONALD tRUMP SAID HE IS GOING TO DO. What he has already done as drop-down the transition team. THANK YOU FOR HAVING THE PANEL BACK. WE'LL PREDICTED HILLARY CLINTON. What does this mean? He is going to have a busy first day. That first 100 days gives him an opportunity to make major changes. He will be in a hostile environment. They are not going to be very keen to have the Swamp drained too quickly. He is facing a Republican Congress. That sounds straightforward, but a lot of people in it Congress didn't support him. Only one in four eligible voters voted for Donald Trump. We have heard a lot about the economy today. There are a lot of other things it Donald Trump was promising that will hurt many Americans and cause them to get out into the street and protest. He has some hard yards ahead of him. One of the things that is interesting as his appointment of friends and family to White House staff and Cabinet. It may suggest he doesn't take competing advice very well. Here's surrounding himself with people who will support him. What do you thinkhe will be as a president? If this is an African nation and the president selected his children, we would be up in arms. He is potentially the most compromised president ever. If Hillary had one we would all be year saying how great it was. It wasn't an overwhelming victory for Donald Trump. If 55,000 people have changed their votes, Hillary would have won. He owes a lot of money. He is in the pocket of Putin. He has these compromised relationships. I think Liberal Democrats should be fired up, but not fearful. The Democrats could make the mistake of thinking Bernie Sanders was right. Actually, they shouldn't jump into the swamp and chase Trump in the. They should keep pushing the focus on freedom, international is intolerance that the world has enjoyed since the Second World War. Fran, do you agree? No. I just want to go back to some of Chris's points. Unbridled free markets are coming to an end. It needs to have a fair shake. In the debate around trade, what he is getting at is US corporate off shoring the workers and production somewhere else in depriving middle-class Americans of jobs. There are not a lot of specialist manufacturing jobs in the US. Everyone is going into service industries. People are being paid roughly 60% of what they were before. On the campaign. He went to Indianapolis and talked about and air conditioning plant that was going to shift to Mexico. He said I will slap a 35% tariff on that. This is the kind of argument with corporate America that he is having. A lot of US imports are made in China. I want to bring this to our doorstep. Tim Groser see the TPP we didn't be the ranch on it. How big a deal is that? I think the bigger issue is New Zealand will have to rebuild its relationship with the United States. We had a good relationship with Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. We will be starting from scratch. When it comes to knocking on the door to ask for some sort of trade deal, the result might not be quite as enthusiastic as New Zealand would want. Indeed, the problem might be the President-elect will take the view that terrorists will have to be introduced, and that will hit New Zealand. What will our trade relationship with the United States potentially look like over the coming four years? I'm reasonably optimistic. I've spoken to other ambassadors. In a very senior level. We have great connections. We have staffers on both sides of the hill. That is where a lot of deals get crafty. There is a great opportunity for New Zealand to get in a man it and draw on those relationships we have. We with the repository for the TPP. We have played a close game with Washington. There is an opportunity now for strong positioning by New Zealand. I don't see a lot of tariffs being placed on New Zealand goods. We are not a threat to the United States. They won't necessarily be the short-term deals under the TPP, but a lot of traders outside of trade agreements anyway. What is going to be the public reaction we not one factory reopens or opens in the rustbelt? When the wall isn't built? What is going to be the reaction when he doesn't deliver? From a policy perspective, Paul Ryan will be driving a lot of that. But the Supreme Court is one example where Trump will be able to make a significant difference. Clinton would have appointed a liberal justice. Trump will not. The abortion debate will come back into play. It will please a lot of Republicans. If you look at the climate debate, that is gone. He is talking about getting back into dirty energy and growing jobs that way. There are significant challenges. I don't think he is going to be able to move the way he said he would. But whether a house and Senate in his favour, he will be able to do things. He has been flexible about Obamacare. 20 million Americans didn't have health insurance. He is not thinking about what can be done to help groups out on the road. Something that was condemned as being awful is now being seen as something that can be renegotiated. This is a chap`� we got hold of his twitter feed after the election a written to them media in protesters. Someone got hold of his twitter feed and he was conciliatory again. He is not prone to a steady, strategic direction on anything. I thought the Obamacare thing sounded good. This chap doesn't have the temperament. I think here's a dealmaker, pragmatist and businessmen at heart. AFTER THE BREAK ` A CLOSE CLINTON AIDE AND TOP NEW YORK DEMOCRAT. HIS TAKE ON TRUMP. SO DOES THAT MAKE HIM THE MOST POWERFUL PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME? I THINK IT MAKES HIM POWERFUL OR DANGEROUS, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT. THIS IS NOT THE OUTCOME WE WANTED OR WE WORKED SO HARD FOR, AND I'M SORRY WE DID NOT WIN THIS ELECTION. THIS IS PAINFUL, AND IT WILL BE FOR A LONG TIME. AND HILLARY CLINTON'S PAIN IS SHARED BY HER DEMOCRATIC PARTY, THAT NOW FACES AT LEAST FOUR YEARS OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE, THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE. CORIN DANN SPOKE TO BASIL SMIKLE, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NEW YORK STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. HE'S A FORMER SENIOR AIDE TO HILLARY CLINTON AND KNOWS HER WELL. OH, IT WAS A TOUGH LOSS. CLEARLY, WE... OH, IT WAS A TOUGH LOSS. CLEARLY, WE... SO MANY OF US WERE BEHIND HILLARY AND HAVE BEEN FOR QUITE A WHILE. I THINK WHAT'S A LITTLE TROUBLING IS THAT SO MANY OF THE POLLS AND POLLSTERS TALKED ABOUT THE RACE IN THAT IT WASN'T ABOUT IF SHE WOULD WIN BUT BY HOW MUCH. THE NARRATIVE OF THE RACE GOING INTO ELECTION DAY WAS VERY DIFFERENT TO THE OUTCOME. AND I THINK THAT, I THINK, IS ALSO SOMETHING WE'RE ALL TRYING TO WRAP OUR HEAD AROUND, WHICH IS, 'WHAT DID WE MISS WITH THE ELECTORATE? 'WHAT DID WE OVERESTIMATE OR UNDERESTIMATE 'ABOUT THE VOTERS IN AMERICA TODAY?' BECAUSE, APPARENTLY, THE MODEL OF VOTER THAT WE HAD RELIED UPON PREVIOUSLY IS NO LONGER VALID. AND I UNDERSTAND IT IN SOME RESPECTS, BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP BROUGHT OUT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD NOT HAVE PREVIOUSLY HAVE COME OUT. BERNIE SANDERS, WHO WAS HILLARY'S OPPONENT IN THE PRIMARY, BROUGHT OUT A LOT OF SUPPORTERS THAT WERE PROBABLY NOT COUNTED IN PREVIOUS MODELS OF POLLS. SO HILLARY CLINTON, SHE DIDN'T GET THE BIG TURNOUT, DID SHE? SHE DIDN'T SEEM TO BRING OUT. WHAT WAS GOING ON THERE? SHE COULDN'T SEEM TO ENERGISE THAT TURNOUT. WELL, I THINK SHE DID. SHE ACTUALLY WON THE POPULAR VOTE, BUT I THINK WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT THIS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WAS THAT THERE WERE SOME DEMOCRATS THAT WOUND UP NOT VOTING DEMOCRATIC. I WOULD SAY A COUPLE OF MILLION WHO DID NOT VOTE DEMOCRATIC. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE SUPPORTIVE OF BERNIE AND DECIDED TO SWITCH. WE DON'T KNOW TODAY IF THESE WERE JUST LAPSED VOTERS THAT WANTED TO COME OUT FOR DONALD TRUMP. WE ALSO KNOW THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF WOMEN WHO WOUND UP VOTING FOR TRUMP AND NOT FOR HILLARY, PROBABLY IN WAYS THAT WE DIDN'T ANTICIPATE. WE EXPECTED TURNOUT TO BE ROUGHLY WHERE IT IS, BUT I DON'T THINK WE NECESSARILY EXPECTED THE MIX OF, SORT OF, LAPSED VOTERS OR PEOPLE THAT HAVE VERY LITTLE VOTING HISTORY TO COME OUT AND VOTE IN THE WAYS THAT THEY DID. I WOULD ALSO ADD TOO THAT, I THINK ACROSS THE BOARD, I THINK 46% OF REGISTERED VOTERS DID NOT COME OUT AND VOTE. AND THAT ACTUALLY WILL HAVE AN IMPACT. BECAUSE HOW MUCH OF A FACTOR WAS THE RACIST, XENOPHOBIC NATURE AND TONE OF DONALD TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN? I THINK THE RACIAL THEMES THAT DONALD TRUMP HAD WOVEN THROUGHOUT HIS RACE ` HIS CHARACTERISATION OF MUSLIMS, OF IMMIGRANTS, OF COMMUNITIES OF COLOUR ` HAD A TREMENDOUS IMPACT. I THINK IT ENERGISED A LOT OF PEOPLE, ON THE ONE HAND, TO VOTE AGAINST HIM. BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE AGREED IN PRINCIPLE ON WHAT HE WAS SAYING, MEANING THAT THEY FELT THAT THE COUNTRY WAS LEANING TOO MUCH IN TERMS OF POLICY TO FAVOUR COMMUNITIES OF COLOUR AND IMMIGRANT POPULATIONS, THAT THE COUNTRY WAS DOING MORE THAN IT SHOULD` DOES HE HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THAT? WELL, I THINK IN SOME WAYS HE DOES, BECAUSE IF YOU VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP, IN PART YOU FEEL A SENSE OF A LOSS OF PRIVILEGE AND A LOSS OF, YOU KNOW... THAT THE POLICIES THAT ARE BEING DIRECTED TOWARD THE COUNTRY ARE NOT FOR YOU, PARTICULARLY ECONOMIC POLICIES. AND HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO DEAL WITH THAT. SO WHAT SORT OF A PRESIDENT DO YOU THINK DONALD TRUMP WILL BE? THERE SEEMS TO A FEAR AND ANXIETY THAT HE MAY BE SOME KIND OF DICTATOR WHO'S NOW GOING TO EXACT REVENGE ON THOSE WHO HE DOESN'T LIKE. YOU KNOW, THE THING IS THAT TRUMP'S A BUSINESSMAN, AND MY SENSE IS THAT YOU KNOW, THE THING IS THAT TRUMP'S A BUSINESSMAN, AND MY SENSE IS THAT HE HAS A STYLE WHERE HE'S NOT USED TO GOVERNING; HE'S USED TO BEING THE BOSS. AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT HE'S USED TO WINNING AND LOSING AND GETTING HIS WAY WITH LIMITED DISCUSSION, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING WE ALL HAVE TO LOOK AT. ARE YOU GOING TO GOVERN AND BRING IN DISPARATE VOICES TO BE ABLE TO TALK THROUGH ALTERNATIVES AND FIND THE BEST ONE THAT ACTUALLY BRINGS IN MORE PEOPLE RATHER THAN COMPARTMENTALISES THEM, OR ARE YOU JUST GOING TO PUSH YOUR WAY THROUGH DECISION MAKING? YOU CAN'T DO THAT AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. FOR THE DEMOCRATS, THAT MUST BE VERY WORRYING IF HE'S GOING TO SCRAP OBAMACARE, OVERTURN A NUMBER OF EXECUTIVE ORDERS. WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT THAT? THERE'S VERY LITTLE. I MEAN, IN THE SENSE THAT HE WILL... HE CERTAINLY HAS CAMPAIGNED ON IT, AND I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO EXPECT HIM TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON MUCH OF WHAT HE SAID. AT LEAST THAT SHOULD BE THE EXPECTATION. EVEN THE LOCKING UP HILLARY? MAYBE IT DEPENDS ON WHO HIS ATTORNEY GENERAL IS, IF IT'S RUDY GIULIANI OR NOT. BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE CONCERN, RIGHT? HOW MUCH OF WHAT YOU SAID ON THE CAMPAIGN ARE YOU ACTUALLY GOING TO FOLLOW THROUGH UPON? BASED ON THE TONE THAT HE STRUCK ON ELECTION NIGHT AND PERHAPS THE WAY THAT HE'S TALKED TO PRESIDENT OBAMA, I HOPE THAT HE REALISES THE JOB IS BIGGER THAN THAT AND IT'S BIGGER THAN HIM. BASIL, DOES THIS FEEL IT REALLY IS A ONCE-IN-A-GENERATIONAL CHANGE? IT FEELS LIKE IT'S A PURGE; IT'S A CLEANSING; AND I THINK BOTH PARTIES HAVE A RECKONING. MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE BECOMING UNAFFILIATED WITH PARTIES. THAT IS A CHALLENGE FOR US. HOW DO WE A) BRING IN MORE PEOPLE AND GET PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PARTY ACTUALLY DOES MATTER? THAT'S TOUGH, AND WE HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT. IS IT A MOVE LEFT? I THINK FOR A LOT OF YOUNGER PEOPLE, YES, IT IS A MOVE LEFT. AND WHY I THINK THAT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD THING` I DON'T THINK IT'S A BAD THING AT ALL. I THINK IT'S A GOOD THING BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT GROWTH. IF YOU'RE GOING TO GROW THE PARTY, YOU HAVE TO WELCOME IN MORE VOICES, YOU HAVE TO WELCOME IN YOUNGER VOICES SO THAT YOU CAN RECRUIT PEOPLE TO RUN FOR OFFICE, YOU CAN RECRUIT PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT PARTY PLATFORMS AND TO ACTUALLY WRITE OUR PLATFORM. IF WE TRIED TO NARROW THE CONVERSATION AND STRUCTURE IT TOO MUCH, THEN WE DON'T GROW. IS AMERICA GOING TO MOVE TO THE RIGHT SOCIALLY UNDER A DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENCY? THE CONCERN, CLEARLY, IS, NUMBER ONE, HE'S GOT A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE POSITION TO FILL, AND HE MAY HAVE TWO OTHERS TO FILL WITHIN FOUR YEARS. SO THERE IS A CONCERN AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE COUNTRY AND THE COURT MOVES TO THE RIGHT, BECOMES MORE CONSERVATIVE. ALTERNATIVELY, THE COURT COULD ACTUALLY PLAY A ROLE IN STIFLING ANY OVERREACH THAT HE INTENDS TO DO AS AN EXECUTIVE. YOU KNOW, HE DOESN'T OWE ANYBODY ANYTHING, REALLY. HE DIDN'T HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF FUNDRAISING ACTIVITIES; PUT A LOT OF HIS OWN MONEY INTO IT. AND, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE NOT PUBLICLY SUPPORTING HIM, SO HE MAY RETAIN A VERY SMALL COUNSEL. SO DOES THAT MAKE HIM ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL PRESIDENTS OF ALL TIME? I THINK IT MAKES HIM POWERFUL OR DANGEROUS, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT. BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE SOMEBODY COMES FROM, IF YOU DON'T KNOW THEIR CORE, IF YOU DON'T KNOW THEIR POLITICAL COMPASS, IT'S HARD TO PREDICT HOW THEY'RE GOING TO VIEW AND ACT ON CERTAIN ISSUES. AND HE COULD SURPRISE US ALL AND BE MORE MODERATE AND TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROACH TO GOVERNANCE THAT DOESN'T MATCH HIS RHETORIC. OR HE COULD MATCH A LOT OF THE RHETORIC AND GO IN AND DO A LOT OF THE THINGS ` OR ATTEMPT TO ` THAT HE SAID, IN TERMS OF BUILDING A WALL, IN TERMS OF GOING AFTER IMMIGRANTS IN HIS FORTHRIGHT WAYS HE HAS SUGGESTED. THAT SAID, THERE ARE LOT OF PEOPLE ON THE GROUND THAT ARE VERY FEARFUL RIGHT NOW AND ARE TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF THIS BECAUSE OF A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT HE SAID. AND HE HAS TO TAKE A VERY STRONG ROLE IN TRYING TO EASE A LOT OF THESE TENSIONS. BASIL SMIKLE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF NEW YORK STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, SPEAKING TO CORIN DANN. OUR PANEL, AND YOUR FEEDBACK, AFTER THE BREAK. Could Bernie Sanders have beaten Donald Trump? No. The mistake we made is thinking that Donald would've motivated the same people as Bernie. Hillary one very well with Latino and Americans. Bernie performed very poorly with most people. I don't think he would've one. I think Elizabeth Warren would've been more motivating. I think she was new and fresh and she could've taken from on. We have to watch over the next 4 years. I'm not so sure about that. I don't think anyone could of taken jump on easily. He clearly recognized that the rust belt was potent. On election night, he summed it up. He said we were movement. Hillary had a campaign. A machine politician. He did have some traction early on. Traction for Sanders? Yes. You brought in a locked of young voters in particular. I don't the he could've done a full campaign. The age factor would've come in at some stage. 74 years. Limited appeal as we've already discussed. No, I think Hillary was the obvious candidate for the time. But looking forward, I agree that Elizabeth Warren is the one to look out for in 2020. We have had for accident this. Can with a similar change away from the establishment in about a years time? What this shows us is that there is a whole lot of politicians that I like Trump. Based on fear, based on borders. In France, we could sort of have a neofascist. fastest president Let's not forget that in NZ we are more stable. But Winston peters predicted Brexit and Trump. He knows there are things in the mix for NZ and those issues are starting to burn for NZ. He can play on those. NZ 1st is on the rise according to polls. The next election will actually be fought between Prime Minister key and Winston peters. Winston is making moves that he will be playing on peoples fears. I agree that he can be a catalyst. But no. He has been a catalyst for populist sentiment in the past. But he is Not an outsider. It stops working after a while. What are the things about Winston peters, when he came to government, suddenly support started to drop by huge margins. He can certainly pick up support, but I don't think ever see him as a major player. Do we have that sort of fear? I think what we did to obviously with MMP was we actually established an environment that this can come to play but also be moderated. There's no one completely. Every one has had to compromise even at the margins. What this does signal to me is how burning issues can erupt, and the issue about housing and giving younger people a fair go, it's interesting Winston peters is actually starting to resonate with younger people. A number of these young people are saying that Winston peters is starting to make sense. He presents thing in a more emotional and connecting way than perhaps Andrew little would to. The government needs to look at what his trust is with all of the community. Bill English is saying that the trust has to be maintained. That is where the housing and emergency housing very late in the piece is a recognition of that. We have those people in NZ. Are they going to have a voice? Fran touch on that with a proportional electoral system. Those people could have a voice. That's the good thing about our system. It stops the demigods like Trump from taking over. The question is what is a vehicle in NZ? What are the motivating issues? Axis is very important but also having affordability. When will the middle-class be able to afford a home? I think that's where the pressure will be for the government. The government has to demonstrate that it is not only aware of these issues but that it is actually doing something practical about it. We have touched on Winston peters a number of times before. Is there room for Winston peters or somebody like that? We know Gareth Morgan for instance. And Colin Craig. We have yet to see whether these parties will have support. But there's always room for this with an and MMP environment. We don't know who's going to bankroll these political parties. Finance is a big problem. Winston peters is a kind of stayer in NZ politics. It's a player. He knows how it works. He looks at immigration and says this is an issue he can run with will. JUST BEFORE WE GO, LET'S CHECK OUT SOME OF YOUR FEEDBACK. REGAN SMITH TWEETED, 'PEOPLE DISLIKE GOVERNMENTS AND POLITICIANS 'AROUND THE WORLD, BECAUSE THEY TAKE TOO MUCH AND GIVE SO LITTLE. 'WE NEED A 10% TAX RATE.' JOANNA SMITH ALSO EMAILED THAT SHE AGREES WITH FRAN ` 'WAKA HUIA' IS NEXT. REMEMBER, Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS ` THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT 9. CAPTIONS BY ASHLEE SCHOLEFIELD AND GLENNA CASALME. CAPTIONS WERE MADE POSSIBLE WITH FUNDING FROM NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2016