MORENA, GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M GREG BOYED. TODAY ` DEFENCE MINISTER GERRY BROWNLEE. HAS OUR STRATEGIC ENVIRONMENT CHANGED UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP? AND ARE OUR DEFENCE FORCES FUTURE-FIT? GERRY BROWNLEE'S INTERVIEW WITH CORIN DANN IN JUST A MOMENT. THEN A SIGNIFICANT WIN FOR UNIONS THIS WEEK. (APPLAUSE) SOME OF OUR LOWEST-PAID WORKERS GOT A BIG PAY RISE AS PART OF A $2B EQUAL PAY SETTLEMENT. WHAT NOW FOR OTHERS SEEKING SIMILAR CLAIMS? WE ASK CTU PRESIDENT RICHARD WAGSTAFF. THEN AHEAD OF ANZAC DAY, WHENA OWEN WITH A MOVING REPORT ON THE LAST POST CEREMONY AT PUKEAHU NATIONAL WAR MEMORIAL PARK, REMEMBERING A FALLEN WORLD WAR ONE SOLDIER EACH AND EVERY NIGHT. IF THEY WERE UP THERE NOW LOOKING DOWN AT ME, I'M SURE THEY WOULD BE PROUD OF WHAT I'M DOING. CAPTIONS BY VIRGINIA PHILP AND CATHERINE DE CHALAIN. CAPTIONS WERE MADE POSSIBLE WITH FUNDING FROM NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2017 AND WE'LL COVER ALL THAT AND MORE WITH OUR PANEL ` POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR JENNIFER CURTIN FROM AUCKLAND UNIVERSITY, LAILA HARRE, FORMER MINISTER, UNIONIST, CURRENTLY A POST-GRADUATE LAW STUDENT AND MICHELLE BOAG, PR CONSULTANT AND FORMER NATIONAL PARTY PRESIDENT. WE'LL HEAR FROM YOU ALL SHORTLY, BUT FIRST HERE'S A QUICK NEWS UPDATE. SECURITY HAS BEEN STEPPED UP AHEAD OF THE FRENCH PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. AN EXTRA 50,000 POLICE WILL SECURE THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF POLLING STATIONS ACROSS FRANCE. SECURITY IS A MAJOR ISSUE AFTER A WAVE OF EXTREMIST ATTACKS ON FRENCH SOIL. ON FRIDAY, A GUNMAN SHOT AND KILLED A POLICE OFFICER IN PARIS BEFORE BEING KILLED BY POLICE. FAR-RIGHT NATIONALIST MARINE LE PEN AND EMMANUEL MACRON, AN INDEPENDENT CENTRIST AND FORMER ECONOMY MINISTER, TOP THE POLLS GOING INTO THE FIRST ROUND OF VOTING. HERE'S CORIN NOW WITH DEFENCE MINISTER GERRY BROWNLEE. JOINING ME NOW FROM CHRISTCHURCH IS GERRY BROWNLEE, MINISTER FOR DEFENCE AND CIVIL DEFENCE. Good morning. Let us start first with the developments in North Korea. We have seen a lot of troops being moved around by a number of countries. How worried are you by the escalations in the Korean peninsular? I would not say particularly worried but it is a situation that is under constant monitor. Spending a huge sum of money sending some of those missiles into the Japanese sea I think the precautions that countries on their borders are taking are realistic. Is it a concern or not that the US seems to have changed its stance a little bit and wants China to deal with the situation? If they are unable to deal with North Korea, the United States and the allies well. Does that include us? It would have to be decided at a time when it reaches that point. It is between President Xi and President Trump. Two countries have an interest in the area and to looking at a rogue state that is making all sorts of threats and would probably be more concerning to China, given they share the border with them and have a big population. Do we share the view that it is up to China to solve it? Cutting oil supplies into North Korea? What we do say is that it will be sanctions and continued diplomacy that should be first called upon to try and resolve the situation there. You have a leader who people know very little about the regime but you would assume that underneath him, there is a very big machinery of people who have equally evil intent and so you have got to make sure that you think about the millions of North Koreans who are suffering under that regime at the present time. We have seen Australia singled out by the North Koreans overnight according to reports, pointing out that they could be caught up by Korean missiles. You are not afraid to say that it is North Korea who is all to blame for this. They are making various outrageous threats, including threats overnight to Australia. Can we trust Donald Trump? Is it no longer America first? And how does a country like New Zealand deal with that? What I would say is that the situation in North Korea and in Syria have been ongoing and what President Trump has said and President Obama, there is an expectation that the world will assist in coming to the party and trying to get rid of these regimes that are oppressive. They also pose a threat to any nation. The nature of that type of warfare with rampant terrorism and random terrorism means that no country as particularly safe from that type of activity. You look at the defence white paper that was put out last year by the New Zealand government, much of the focus is on the economic exclusion zone and the waters around New Zealand and it was criticised by some Australians by not dealing with some issues like in the South China Sea. I do not think we are off the ball there. The US has a military of about 1.5 million personnel. China has a military of 2 million personnel. They are big players and we will never match them, but we will complement them with five eyes. We do have the interest in Antarctica. And it boosts cyber intelligence which is very important in the range of threats that come to us now. We do not want to criticise China, whereas Australia has gone much further. The issues in the South China Sea are for the countries that are most affected to determine. We think that freedom of navigation is important. We do note that there have been bilateral arrangements with Brunei and it looks that there will be some kind of bilateral arrangement with the Philippines as well. It is their claim over territorial sea that is most effective. Half of our trade go through that piece of ocean. More than that. A very large piece of all the world's trade goes through that area. We have got our Five Eyes partners meeting here this weekend, but I think it is pretty clear, but we have an economic relationship with China that we do not want to upset. Let us be clear. The economic relationship with China has, with the rest of the world, is very big and the imperative for China to lift the steaks of some of the least well off in that country is very high. When it comes to the South China Sea, we do not take a position on her sovereignty is pre-eminent over another. We simply say we support the decisions and the bilateral discussions that are going on at the minute well lead to freedom of passage. What if China is building up military installations on islands? That is something for the region to look at. We do monitor and discuss it. I have never backed away from discussing it with military Chinese people when I have the chance. We think the freedom of navigation through those areas is important in the recognition of territorial sea is important. The arrangements between countries who have those claims need to be settled on a one-to-one basis. Other Five Eyes heads here? I thought it was the Bollywood actor that was here. At a time of heightened tension in the North Korean peninsular, you have the bosses of the Five Eyes agency here. It is a little surprised that you can go to Google and find out who owned the planes. I am wondering if we can move on to Syria and Iraq. You have mentioned in your recent visit there that we would have some role post-Isis. Can you expand a bit more on that? The context here is that Iraq is a country of 80 million people. The vast majority of those people want to go on with their lives. You only need a city area with Baghdad which has 9 million people and a few thousand who were in the ratbag category And they hold the whole area to ransom. As Arata gets clear devices and I think it is worth noting that the Iraqi government and security forces who have done that. What can we do? In the reconstruction, we would look at it, but there is nothing proposed at the present moment. As Isis operatives free the Middle East, we need to know where they are going, because we do not want them here. It is something that you should be alert to. Is there a problem with some of our defence equipment? If you wanted to send some of the NH 90s, they would not be equipped. I think they are very capable machines. They could not fly there. They are not fit for purpose, the helicopter is too big to ship around. We have the Canterbury, of course. You can take them on the Canterbury. Also as they become more operational, there is the possibility of island hopping into the Pacific. We did have one in Fiji, which is very useful at the time of Hurricane Winston. It is embarrassing that we have our fleet effectively half grounded which you cannot fly around the country at the moment. Hang on, they are flying. On a safety basis it would not be very smart to do anything until the problem is isolated. They are still flying over land. Are you still committed to keeping them and upgrading them? Yes I think they were an interesting purchase at the time. They are what they are and we have got them. They are a functional aircraft. And they can carry 19 people. Can we have confidence that we are about to embark on a $20 billion defence spending program and that we are going to get the purchases right. I think the fact is that these days you know a lot more about them and the defence Force does not hide any of its problems and we do not ask commercial operators to tell us how often their planes are out of action. The defence White Paper with its procurement plan alongside sets out a better process for procurement so we have the interoperability it has been a few weeks since the hit and run allegations from Nicky Hager and Jon Stevenson It took five days to front the allegations. They came to us as a bit of a surprise and it is only natural to take some time and go through those checks and that's why I think people can be confident in the stance taken by Gen Keating and supported by me I don't think it was the perception that it was not an independent enquiry. So the defence chief investigating a problem in the defence Force is an independent investigation? Gen Keating went back over all the records and considered the allegations and they made a decision about whether a further investigation was required. There was no need for further investigation. Civil defence is another issue you are responsible for. You have been critical about the Christchurch fires and the lines of communications around these problems during disasters. What are you going to do about it? All those people who committed themselves to rural Fire for civil defence activities have my admiration. We do need them. It is important that the backup structure that enable civil defence to do its work is fit for the time. We are working on a system which was designed in the 1950s and was ratified again in 2002 with some further changes again in 2015 and I think there is a need to look at the chain of command. If you think back to the 50s, communication was not as easy as it is today and it sometimes strikes me a little odd that you are getting better news and I think a key to it as how a civil defence emergency is declared and what authorities carry that. Do you think it will be a time when the central government makes a call on a local hazard? Cabinet has approved a technical advisory group to sit down and look at the legislation. That group comprises people from the police, defence, civil defence and from the fire service and they will consult with other services that are required to act in circumstances of civil emergency and also look at that structure to see how it works and how it might be improved. One last question. A cabinet reshuffle is expected tomorrow. Will you be Foreign Minister tomorrow? Prime Minister Bill English will announce his changes tomorrow. I want to be part of the party that gets the greatest vote at this year's election. How I fit into that will be determined by the Prime Minister. Thank you for your time. GERRY BROWNLEE, MINISTER FOR DEFENCE AND CIVIL DEFENCE SPEAKING TO CORIN THERE. WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF WHAT HE HAD TO SAY? WE'RE KEEN TO HEAR. WE'RE ON TWITTER AT @NZQANDA. YOU CAN EMAIL US AT Q+A@TVNZ.CO.NZ OR TEXT YOUR THOUGHTS AND FIRST NAME TO 2211. KEEP THEM BRIEF ` EACH TEXT COSTS 50C. STAY WITH US. THE PANEL IS COMING UP AFTER THE BREAK. WELCOME BACK TO Q+A. Laila Harre, what did you make of Gerry Brownlee's comments about whether we would hop on board with the United States re: North Korea. Gerry Brownlee adjusted a fantastic audition for the role of Foreign Minister. Clearly he has been looking beyond the nuts and bolts of a defence response and taking a far more strategic approach. You could not fault his commentary in terms of North Korea. It was a stand back and wait stance. I got no impression that New Zealand has pre-signed up to any US escapades there. The pointers as he says there are outrageous statements being made by the North Korean leadership and I think New Zealand can understand that they are outrageous and the the worst thing possible would be to intervene. That would not do anything constructive in terms of our regional security. Jennifer, this is one of the most secretive nations in the world. What the defence minister was saying in terms of holding back we would expect to see Australia line up. Julie Bishop is paying for the comments that she made. Even though they are outrageous statements that are being made, it is New Zealand's position as a more independent foreign-policy nation as a good one to hold to right now. Do we have, Michelle Boag, an independent foreign policy? We have had a effort from the New Zealand government to make us relevant. We have an independent stance on a number of issues and I think what we see in Gerry Brownlee there is someone who has huge political experience and we are seeing the benefit of all those years and a surprising amount of diplomacy, which will suit him well affairs made the Minister tomorrow. Someone who has been involved at the integral stage of a lot of National party strategic decisions, and I think it is very reassuring to see that he is across the detail and he is so committed to the stances that have been taken and is so competent in terms of the way he is managing those issues. I think there was a commentator who said this week that he deserves the position of foreign affairs and in the appropriate diplomatic fashion, he did not comment on that. Laila Harre, how much has their strategic position changed and they last 100 days of Trump? Trump has really picked up the agenda that was set and that he opposed by Hillary Clinton within the Obama administration. It was a agenda that was seriously worrying. As Foreign Minister, Gerry Brownlee might have been able to stand by the defence forces in light of the allegations which Hager and Stevenson raised. As Foreign Minister, this is going to come back to bite on the bum. There is a court case pending. Anybody's money would have to be on demonstrating clearly the civilian casualties and deaths. And in addition to that, there was without doubt an investigation going on by our international partners and the Afghans in particular over these allegations and New Zealand's response to it. He may be able to say that we shut it down now and we trust the response, but there is no way this is not going to come back. Michelle Boag, do you agree with that? Wayne Mapp has come out and said there should be an investigation. I do not think it will be a major issue coming into the election. I think there are so many other significant issues of interest. I think the response to the allegations were much shorter in their currency and not as categorical as I think the authors would have liked. I do not get any sense out there that it is part of the public discourse at the moment and I think people have higher priorities. Jennifer Curtin, do you agree? I am not sure it is over, but I do not think it is an issue that will resonate with voters that even the dirty politics book might have. We are aware way out from election and we know we in opinion polls reveal what people are thinking, and it seems that the top five issues are more national and internationally focused. To say that the defence Force was surprised and shocked by the revelations, I think they would have known. It does suggest that maybe the communications need to be sorted out going forward. Maybe an enquiry would help with that. The official position of the government still is that there were not civilian casualties. I find unbelievable that it is not like TVNZ or radio New Zealand or others are relying on focus groups to find out what power should be held to account. I find unbelievable that this has been dropped based on the fact that the focus groups don't care about it. This goes to the heart of the running of ethical governments. The French election is at 8 o'clock our time. Which way do you feel this will go? Will it be the end of France in the European Union? I do not think it will go to the far right. There will be a lot of issues around the recent terrorist attack. I think that the centre-right will ultimately win through on this. On the basis of Trump and Brexit, I am not prepared to make any predictions. They will get a second chance, unlike the Brits. AFTER THE BREAK ` A BUMPER BOOST TO THE WAGES OF SOME OF OUR LOWEST-PAID WORKERS THIS WEEK. CTU PRESIDENT RICHARD WAGSTAFF IS NEXT TO TELL US WHAT THIS MEANS FOR OTHER WORKERS. UNIONS WERE CELEBRATING A BIG PAY RISE FOR HEALTHCARE WORKERS THIS WEEK. AROUND 55,000 CARE AND SUPPORT WORKERS ` MAINLY WOMEN ` WILL GET PAY RISES AFTER A FOUR-YEAR PAY EQUITY BATTLE. THE GOVERNMENT INITIALLY FOUGHT BACK AGAINST THE CLAIM. IT'S NOW SETTLED WITH A PACKAGE WORTH AROUND $2B OVER FIVE YEARS. RICHARD WAGSTAFF IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL OF TRADE UNIONS. HE JOINS ME NOW. Good morning. How significant is this? Will It ripple out across the economy? This is not the beginning or end of equal pay. We have a long way to go in correcting the balance. WE HOPE TO GO ON FROM HERE BUT TIME WILL TELL. Social workers is one of them, isn't it? This case started with Christine Bartlett. The unions negotiated with the government and broaden other groups of workers that were very much like aged care workers. We brought in other industries like home support and disability. We did a deal for 55,000 people, but there are many others in the wings. We have social workers, clerical staff and the health sector, teacher aides` but the prime minister said this would be a high hurdle. What do you make of that? A couple of days after we made that settlement they introduced legislation which doesn't really follow the existing act. We think there is a potential to inhibit further equal pay claims. This is about trying to get a proper comparison between types of work, isn't it? Women who aren't being paid properly need to be able to compare themselves with male dominated industries. These these changes mean that you have to compare yourself with people in your same industry. The point is not to agree exactly on who the comparator is. The point is to have a reference point in the bargaining process. This wasn't a rigid process, it was a flexible process. It's costing the government $2 billion for this particular settlement. If it brought the others and would it be looking at another $2 billion? A better way to put it is that it had cost the workers $2 billion. Education support workers, teacher aides and so on ` there's nothing like 50,000 of them. But there are other workers in fields like mental health and childcare. We can't fix the equal pay imbalance if we don't actually do something. If it does go into the private sector, one pushback from business is that they can't give a pay rise without a corresponding productivity gain. If you look at the mid 80s up until today, if we be sharing productivity gains, every worker would be about $10,000 better off. We have a wage setting system that simply doesn't work. We think we need some real amendments to the employment relations act. Let's talk about what those changes are. I'm sure that the Labour Party will be listening. We told them about ideas and think we've been well received. Most working people in New Zealand don't get to negotiate their pay and don't get adjustments to their pay. 4/5 workers aren't in unions and don't get an annual adjustment to their pay. If you look at the commercial arrangements we have, they tend to Compress pay rates. What were looking for is a way of sitting some national standards for occupations so that employers don't drive down the cost of labour. We are one of the only countries that doesn't have a national standard system where wages are protected. So there would be a standard pay that you couldn't go below for particular occupations? That is correct. Employers who pay decent wages are undercut all the time by cheap skates. We want something that is fit for the 21st century. If you look at countries that do better than us, they have systems with their national standards. The contracts act was a disaster. The employments relations act was supposed to make things better. What's stopping people joining unions? When people are in workplaces where other people are in unions, they'll join. The problem is when they go into another workplace and there is no union there, they won't put up their hand to start a union. Union membership is very low. Why aren't you attracting more people? The employment relations act framework doesn't allow us to offer a presence in workplaces. You want that change so that you can be in workplaces promoting your course? Thought OECD, the World Bank and the IMF say that we need more collective-bargaining. This is not just for wages but a fundamental change in workplace culture where there is more voice for working people. I know unions and working people. They want a positive relationship at work. Have you had any indication from labour that they would adopt an idea of an industrywide pay standards? I think that would be strongly opposed by business groups. I think a lot of good employers would welcome the fact that they can't be undercut by other employers. We have talked to opposition parties and think we've had a good reception. Labourers been pretty cautious. I spoke to Grant Robertson about this issue a couple of weeks ago and would be surprised if he would go that far. We think the problems facing New Zealand like the housing problem ` were about $2 billion short on the health budget this year. We need real money and real resources to address our problems. The current policy of a low tax, low wage economy is not going to fix those problems. It seems odd that you haven't been able to push union numbers back up. Maybe people don't want to be in unions. In workplaces where there are unions, young people will join. Young people will join a union if there is a union there. For too many people, they turn up in a workplace and there is no union. Often the employer is hostile towards union presence. We think that our values are very positive and if and if the barriers to our presence were removed, people would be more keen to join unions. CTU PRESIDENT RICHARD WAGSTAFF TALKING TO CORIN DANN THERE. PLENTY FOR OUR PANEL TO COVER AFTER THE BREAK. Time to bring back our panel. What did you make of this week's settlement? It got a lot of well-deserved attention but it is also part of a staged process. Workers were paid for their travel time and then given guaranteed hours. This is the third part. I think this is good news for everybody. It is good news politically for the government. These increases in rates will apply in the private sector as well because the funding will go through to those workers in the private sector. The people I've spoken to who run these companies who employ carers very optimistic about the value of this particular increase in terms of enabling greater training, attraction of better quality people into the workforce an retention of people in the workforce so that you don't get carers turning over as frequently. I think it's good news all around. The question is whether the immigration changes will impact negatively and hopefully the increase in rates will welcome others into the sector. It has been a long time coming, hasn't it? To a large degree the government did fight against this. They did not embrace it from the start. There was a protected two-year period before we even got to the negotiating table. But it is a win for the government. This starts to look like it's addressing their quality issue. It is a win for the unions in terms of being able to sit around the table and use the courts as an institutional mechanism for achieving things that are not possible at the bargaining table from the outset. There have been a lot of feminists working behind the scenes and also raising this issue from the centre-right as well as from the left because pay equity has been a really important issue to women for a long time. This is a very important first step, but as Richard said, who the comparisons are done with really matters going forward. Nurses and police are the two stable ones that are often talked about. Because of the way in which horizontal labour market segregation is gendered, we need to be comparing female dominated occupations with male dominated occupations. If this legislation is put through, are we unlikely to see something like this again? This arises from the 1972 equal pay act, so we are dealing with old legislation. It's young from some of our chronological perspectives. In that time we've had three major industrial relations reforms. The act passed in 1972 has clear principles that the unions established, which gave Christine Bartlett and others the right to a significant pay rise. But the mechanism was the national award system where have you found that a female dominated occupation was underpaid and undervalued, you could put it through the national award process. We now have an individualised and limited collective bargaining situation. One of the fantastic things about the settlement last week is that it does introduce a national award for caregivers. There are 1100 employers and 55,000 workers who are covered by this agreement and the special legislation. The national party who abolished the national award system in 1991 Jim Bolger said that he regretted the impact on workers and unions of that decision. I think it's great that they have opened the door to a new national award system. That is how we will deliver justice and equity across these lower paid industries. Are we likely to see more of this across other sectors? I think there will be continued efforts. I would like to acknowledge the role that Laila played in moving this forward. I think there is a flaw in the logic Richard was using. He is talking about how other economies were doing better. In fact the New Zealand economy is doing very well. Rather than just talking to opposition parties, he should be celebrating the fact that New Zealand economy is doing well in talking to employers and the national party about what that can deliver for workers. This increases in wage rates won't stay in people's pockets. They will be spent. These are workers who usually live week to week. If they get more money, they will spend more money, which will go back into the economy. This is a win all around. I don't think you should be closed after thinking about the constructive way future governments can work with him. Is there a future of unions? We saw action yesterday with the food workers union. It used to be that unions took action very regularly. What is the future of unions look like? I think the process of deregulating the labour market dropped union density rates from 50% to 20% within a few years. They have a long way to come back. For a long time large workplaces and male dominated industries were highly unionised. We've seen the changing nature of the labour market to such an extent that the traditional home of unions doesn't exist any more. We do see the union movement as a whole operating differently now in thinking about ways to recruit members and have a presence in the workplace, but we also see a change in the issues that they champion. We see the causes of farmworkers and forestry workers taken up. I think the word will get out and it would be good to see it made it easier for union representation to get into small workplaces. If labour wins, what will they expect in return? They need to expect some serious consideration of this policy to introduce a process for minimum standards across industries. There actually is not a problem in union popularity. There is a huge problem in union capacity. When we talk about 12% of the private sector workforce being unionised, more than that get the benefit of union collective-bargaining. 30 or 40% of staff at countdown might be in union members, but 100% have the benefit of the union bargaining. This idea of spreading that benefit across the whole retail sector gives unions the capacity to move on and help organise the more vulnerable groups. We'll leave that there. AFTER THE BREAK, THE FINAL WORD FROM OUR PANEL ON THE WEEK IN POLITICS. PLUS WHENA OWEN'S REPORT ` A SPECIAL PROJECT TO PAY TRIBUTE TO OUR WWI SOLDIERS. ONCE A YEAR, ANZAC DAY FOCUSES OUR THOUGHTS ON THOSE WHO SERVED THEIR COUNTRY AND PARTICULARLY THE 30,000 NEW ZEALANDERS WHO LOST THEIR LIVES IN CONFLICTS. AT PUKEAHU NATIONAL WAR MEMORIAL PARK IN WELLINGTON, THEY ARE BEING REMEMBERED EVERY DAY. FROM ANZAC DAY 2015 TO ARMISTICE DAY 2018, A LAST POST CEREMONY IS BEING HELD EACH EVENING. MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ARE INVITED TO READ THE ODE TO THE FALLEN OR EVEN PLAY THE LAST POST. WHENA OWEN MET SOME OF THOSE TAKING PART. (REFLECTIVE MUSIC) IT'S LATE AFTERNOON AT PUKEAHU PARK. IT'S A POPULAR SPACE FOR THE LIVING. BUT IT'S HERE, OUR NATIONAL WAR MEMORIAL, THAT NEW ZEALAND FOCUSES ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE WAR DEAD. IN A FEW MINUTES, THE LAST POST WILL BE PLAYED FOR THEM. TONIGHT THE TWO FLAG ORDERLIES ARE VOLUNTEERS FROM THE NAVY AND ARMY, WELLINGTONIAN MATAI TARAMAI IS THE CIVILIAN READING THE ODE. I'VE JUST GOTTA REMEMBER MY LINES. YEAH. AND I'VE GOTTA SAY IT PROPERLY NOW THAT IT'S ON TV, OR ELSE THE AUNTIES AND THAT WILL CLIP MY EARS. WING COMMANDER MICHELLE WHITE WILL READ THE ODE IN ENGLISH; MATA IN COOK ISLANDS MAORI AND TE REO. I ALWAYS THINK ABOUT MY MUM AND DAD, UH, AND BOTH OF THEM HAVE PASSED ON, SO IF THEY WERE UP THERE NOW, LOOKING DOWN AT ME, I'M SURE THEY'D BE PROUD OF WHAT I'M DOING. UM, THEY ARE CONNECTED TO THE GRANDPARENTS THAT I WANT TO PAY TRIBUTE TO HERE TODAY. A FEW PEOPLE ARE GATHERING AROUND THE MEMORIAL FORECOURT. INSIDE, WARRANT OFFICER TONY JOHNSTONE GOES OVER THE ORDER OF CEREMONY. THEN WE'LL SOUND THE ALERT, WHICH IS JUST ONE SHORT BUGLE CALL. FROM ANZAC DAY 2015, DEFENCE FORCE, WITH THE CULTURE AND HERITAGE MINISTRY, DECIDED TO MARK THE CENTENARY OF EVERY DAY OF THE FIRST WORLD WAR WITH THE LAST POST. TONY: TWO AND A HALF MINUTES, SO IN TWO AND A HALF MINUTES' TIME... IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, WE ARE VERY AWARE OF THE DEBT WE OWE TO THOSE THAT HAVE GONE BEFORE US, AND THIS IS A SYMBOL OF THAT COMMITMENT. WHITE, FRONT. READY? MARCH. MATA TARAMAI IS HERE FOR THREE COOK ISLAND RELATIVES. HIS GREAT-GRANDFATHER WAS LAID TO REST IN RAROTONGA. HE WAS ONE OF 500 COOK ISLAND MEN WHO JOINED THE NEW ZEALAND EXPEDITIONARY FORCE, MAINLY IN THE MIDDLE EAST. THEY WERE RENOWNED FOR THEIR SKILL IN HANDLING SUPPLY BOATS. E TAE 'UA ATU, KI TE POPONGI. THERE WAS NO PORTS ON THIS NORTHERN` ON THE SINAI COAST, SO THEY HAD TO LAND SUPPLIES ON THE BEACH, AND, OF COURSE, PEOPLE FROM THE COOK ISLANDS, THAT WAS WHAT THEY WERE EXPERT AT. AND THE OTHER THING WAS THAT THEY HAD ALL SORTS OF RECORDS FOR HANDLING AMMUNITION, COS THEY COULD JUST HANDLE THESE HEAVY SHELLS BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. EVERY ODE READER HAS A PERSONAL REASON FOR READING, WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE RELATED TO SOMEONE WHO'S SERVED. TONIGHT MATA IS PRESENTING HIS THREE RELATIVES. PVT TEARIKI KOKAUA. TE ARIKI IS MY GREAT-GRANDFATHER ON MY MUM'S SIDE. PVT MAKIROA CUTHERS. PVT JAM APERAU. ('LAST POST' ON BUGLE) TO BE HERE AND TO DO SOMETHING FOR HIM, IT'S MADE ME FEEL COMFORTABLE INSIDE. I FEEL THAT EVEN WELLINGTON'S CONNECTED TO AUCKLAND, CONNECTED TO RARO, SO, UH, EVERYONE DOES THEIR BIT TO SHOW THAT WE RESPECT EACH OTHER. (BAND PLAYS TRIUMPHANT TUNE) AT THE MEMORIAL PARK NEXT AFTERNOON, CHRISTCHURCH BAND MEMBERS ARE PRACTISING FOR THE NATIONAL CHAMPS. TONIGHT ONE OF THE ADDINGTON BRASS BAND GUYS WILL READ THE ODE, AND ANOTHER, GRANT DEMPSEY, WILL PLAY THE LAST POST. ('LAST POST' PLAYS ON BUGLE) SINCE 1983, DEMPSEY HAS PLAYED AT ANZAC DAY SERVICES EVERY YEAR EXCEPT ONE. I'M ACTUALLY JUST IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING THE 'LEST WE FORGET' TATTOO FERN DOWN MY SHOULDER. CHRIS GOURLAY IS THE ODE READER. IT'S JUST THAT REMEMBRANCE OF THE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T MAKE IT OUT, AND IT'S JUST` I JUST FIND IT SOMEWHAT UNBELIEVABLE HOW PEOPLE MY AGE AND MUCH, MUCH YOUNGER WENT OFF AND DID THESE THINGS WITHOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT. MAN: WE WILL REMEMBER THEM. IT'S PRETTY COOL, I THINK. HE WAS ONE OF THE TROOPS. THAT'S ALL RIGHT. THEY WOULD'VE BEEN ABOUT YOUR AGE. YEAH. YEAH, THAT'S PRETTY SCARY, EH? (APPLAUSE) WELLINGTON HAS BEEN WELL REPRESENTED. WELL, THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING, WE'VE PROBABLY STILL GOT A WAY TO GO WITH THREAT OF WAR AND EVERYTHING ` AND CONFLICTS. AND TOMORROW NIGHT THERE WILL BE ANOTHER TEAM OFFICIATING ` ANOTHER READER OF THE ODE TO THE FALLEN, AS LIFE... (TRANQUIL MUSIC) ...GOES ON AROUND IT. (MUSIC CONTINUES) WHENA OWEN REPORTING THERE. AND IF YOU ARE IN WELLINGTON AND WOULD LIKE TO TAKE PART, YOU CAN FIND ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED ON THE MINISTRY OF CULTURE AND HERITAGE WEBSITE ` WWW.MCH.GOVERNMENT.NZ/LAST-POST. THAT'S WWW.MCH.GOVERNMENT.NZ/LAST-POST. THAT WEBSITE WILL BE ON OUR FACEBOOK PAGE TOO. YOUR FEEDBACK NOW FROM OUR INTERVIEW WITH DEFENCE MINISTER GERRY BROWNLEE. RAQUEL BLACKBURN TWEETED, 'BROWNLEE ON SOUTH CHINA SEA: NOT OUR PROBLEM'. JIM YOUNG EMAILED THAT BROWNLEE IS AN ARTICULATE AND KNOWLEDGABLE MINISTER. Now to our panel. Your hits and misses? I'm going for a combined hit and miss, which is Teresa May deciding to call an early election. It's clear that she will win because she has a 20 point lead. But this is the third vote and for three years and will lead to voted fatigue and potentially Scottish independence. I think the hit for me was the interview with Jim Bolger in which she recanted neoliberalism. And I will be interested to see how he deals with the immigration concerns. National has had an approach of creating essentially a guest worker program, but labour also has some big credibility challenges for Andrew little in saying that he will reduce numbers by tens of thousands. For me the hit was the $2 billion settlement. There is a lot that could have been made of those things. MARAE IS NEXT. REMEMBER Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS. THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT 9AM. CAPTIONS BY VIRGINIA PHILP AND CATHERINE DE CHALAIN.