MORENA, GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M GREG BOYED AND WE'VE GOT A VERY BUSY PROGRAMME FOR YOU TODAY. FIRST, AS WE GO TO AIR, PRIME MINISTER JACINDA ARDERN IS ON HER WAY TO AUSTRALIA FOR HER FIRST STATE VISIT. TRADE AND THE RIGHTS OF KIWIS IN AUSTRALIA WILL BE HIGH ON THE AGENDA. WILL THE LABOUR COALITION FORGE A DIFFERENT PATH TO THE LAST GOVERNMENT? AND WILL AUSTRALIA ACCEPT NEW ZEALAND'S OFFER TO TAKE SOME OF THE MANUS ISLAND REFUGEES? THEN, THE GOVERNMENT'S BAN ON FOREIGN BUYERS. HSBC CHIEF ECONOMIST PAUL BLOXHAM GIVES HIS TAKE. A BIT OF UNCERTAINTY AS TO EXACTLY WHAT THE IMPACT WILL BE. THEN NEW MINISTER FOR WOMEN, JULIE ANNE GENTER. AFTER WEEKS OF DAMNING REVELATIONS ABOUT SOME OF HOLLYWOOD'S BIGGEST PLAYERS, WHAT MORE CAN SHE DO TO TACKLE SEXUAL HARASSMENT HERE? AND CAN SHE ACHIEVE ONE OF HER KEY GOALS ` CLOSING THE GENDER PAY GAP? NEW ZEALAND FIRST MP TRACEY MARTIN IS ALSO ON THE PROGRAMME ` OUR NEW MINISTER FOR CHILDREN. WHAT CAN SHE DO FOR OUR MOST DISADVANTAGED KIDS? FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS, OUR WORLD WAR ONE CENTENARY PROJECT HAS MARKED MANY OF THE KEY BATTLES OF THE GREAT WAR, BUT ARE THERE IMPORTANT STORIES THAT AREN'T BEING TOLD? I'M CONSTANTLY TOLD THAT WOMEN STAYED HOME, THEY TOOK OVER FARMS, THEY KNITTED AND FUNDRAISED. WELL, THERE'S ANOTHER STORY. CAPTIONS BY ANTONY VLUG AND CATHERINE DE CHALAIN. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2017 AND WE'LL HAVE ANALYSIS FROM OUR PANEL ` POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR RAYMOND MILLER FROM AUCKLAND UNIVERSITY; DR ELLA HENRY, A LECTURER IN MAORI DEVELOPMENT AT AUT; AND WAYNE MAPP, FORMER NATIONAL MINISTER. BUT WE'LL START WITH THE STANDOFF ON MANUS ISLAND, AND THIS WEEKEND, THE UN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION HAS CRITICISED THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT FOR PULLING OUT OF THE DETENTION CENTRE. IT SAYS AUSTRALIA AND PAPUA NEW GUINEA ARE OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE PROTECTION, FOOD AND OTHER BASIC SERVICES TO THE 600 ASYLUM SEEKERS AND REFUGEES LEFT THERE. PRIME MINISTER JACINDA ARDERN SAYS THE PLIGHT OF THE MEN IS ON HER AGENDA FOR HER MEETING WITH AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER MALCOLM TURNBULL TODAY. LIKE JOHN KEY BEFORE HER, SHE'S OFFERED TO TAKE 150 REFUGEES FROM AUSTRALIA'S OFFSHORE PROCESSING CAMPS. To our panel, Raymond, why is Australia not saying sure To 150? I think they will politely decline. They are concerned that these refugees will go through the back door. Go to New Zealand, get citizenship and then moved to Australia. It might also encourage boat people to bring further groups Into the South Pacific. And then there is pride. The international attention given to this Is something they don't want New Zealand take advantage of. Do you agree with the pride factor? There are 600 man surviving on subsistence. It seems they will turn down our offer. Is it just pride? They might not turn it down. Both prime ministers will want wins for each other. This won't be the most important issue on the agenda There's the East Asia Summit and APEC. They might find some way to work around it. I think we might see a bit of a different approach, Because any new relationship of this nature, Both parties want to make it a success And both need to give something in the process. But they need to respect each other's space. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Do New Zealanders want these are hundred and 50 men? New Zealand has a good reputation of taken migrants. These people would be extremely grateful and humble To any country taking them away from the hell they are now. This is her first state visit how important is it to set the tone? I think this visit has a lot of symbolism. It is Jacinda Ardern's first visit To a country that is considered family. But after admiring the art on the walls, I don't think there will be that much time to talk about substantive issues. Is it fair to say that we value the relationship more than Australia does? Inevitably we properly focus on more than they do. But they do focus on it as well. There is a two-way aspect. I know from personal experience. But there will be substantive issues discussed, And that will be around APEC. They both are going there and both want TPP to succeed in some form. They will work out a joint approach. Whilst there might not be a whole range of things discussed, there will be crucial things discussed. And that a situation like this where it is getting to know you with a short visit, How much ground can you realistically cover. That is why they might focus on just one or two things. They will have plenty of opportunities in the future. There are also officials to discuss things. The tone of the meeting is really important For both of their individual reasons and want to make it a success. What I said before about the value we place on the relationship, Is it fair that it's more important to us? My brother lives in Australia for 30 years, and I agree with you. It means a lot more to me than him. And he has become Australian. And there is a cavalier attitude about New Zealanders. He has been at 35 years, And talks like one, we other smaller country and need them in a different way than they need us. We need them politically and economically. Let's talk about the rights of Kiwis over there. It is a bugbear and we haven't made progress on it. Do you think it will be made in this government? I am sceptical. couldn't forge something, Then I am suspicious that not a lot will be achieved. I think the best that New Zealand can ask for in the immediate term As to get Australia to concede that they should inform New Zealand of any major decision That impacts on New Zealand expatriates. Earlier this year they made announcements about her sharia fees quadrupling education* It was a cause of the embarrassment. So they need to talk about anything happening to New Zealanders in Australia. Barnaby is one of ours he could have said something. Jacinda will reciprocate for Australian here. I will be surprised if it actually happens. Those damage the relationship, And we are the smaller one in the relationship. Raymond is correct that it will be hard to make progress. Australians already think we are privileged, And it is hard to change the mindset that they have. We can make small gains. And maybe they can be extended such as in citizenship. For young people who went there a young age, it is terrible that they can access education on the same basis. And the government should think that through. It is not good to have a significant group denied tertiary education. They have been there virtually all their lives. Raymond, your thoughts? I agree with that and I don't think a change of government in Australia will make a difference. Both labour and Liberal are singing from the same sheet for a long time. And I don't think a change in Australia or make any difference in terms of policy to New Zealanders. I talked to Peter Garrett a number of years ago, And his attitude was if you don't like it, you can leave. It is that delightful arrogance that comes from Australia. You have a thing for Australia this morning. I've had it for some time. I look at Australia and see what they do to the indigenous people they are, And that reflects on my view of the nation. And nothing they have done in the last hundred years has changed my mind. And my relatives en masse have gone now, And there is a 3rd generation now who are hugely patriotic to their new homeland. Let's talk about trade and TPP, how important as we get our ducks in the row before the big conferences start? The Prime Minister signalling that we will go into TPP. She wants changes investor state, But it will be hard for New Zealand to do that by itself. That will only happen if the 11 think there will be changes. They have already done the work around domestic house issue, And they have talked that up as a one. National didn't take that approach. This could really affect to the Queenstown economy. I think you will see TPP New Zealand part of it. And imagine if we weren't And we were the one country amongst the 11 that didn't join. It would be a bad situation for New Zealand. We don't have the choices that USA have. America is not in it, what will it be worth? We really don't know. We have been sold the benefits, but there has been a level of scepticism Of the level of benefits New Zealand will achieve. And I agree that what we are seeing As labour signing up to the deal Regardless of the opposition to it in the past. When you are in government again change quite quickly. There will be benefits they will want to cash in on. SEND US YOUR THOUGHTS. WE'RE ON TWITTER @NZQandA. YOU CAN EMAIL US AT Q+A@TVNZ.CO.NZ OR TEXT YOUR THOUGHTS AND FIRST NAME TO 2211. KEEP THEM BRIEF ` EACH TEXT COSTS 50C. AND WE'LL KEEP TALKING ABOUT AUSTRALIA AFTER THE BREAK. JESSICA INTERVIEWS PAUL BLOXHAM, HSBC'S CHIEF ECONOMIST FOR AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND. AUSTRALIA'S ECONOMY IS ON THE RISE, SO WHAT WILL THAT MEAN FOR US AND NEW ZEALANDERS LOOKING TO MOVE? THE GOVERNMENT'S PROMISED A BAN ON FOREIGNERS BUYING ESTABLISHED RESIDENTIAL HOMES, WHICH IT PLANS TO HAVE IN PLACE BY EARLY NEXT YEAR. IT'S MOVING TO CLASSIFY HOUSES AS 'SENSITIVE' UNDER THE OVERSEAS INVESTMENT ACT. AFTER YEARS OF BOOMING PRICES, OUR HOUSING MARKET IS COOLING, ESPECIALLY IN AUCKLAND, SO WHAT KIND OF IMPACT COULD THESE RESTRICTIONS HAVE NOW? I ASKED PAUL BLOXHAM, HSBC CHIEF ECONOMIST FOR AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND. THE STARTING POINT IS THERE'S STILL QUITE A BIT OF UNCERTAINTY AS TO EXACTLY WHAT THE IMPACT WILL BE. WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT THE FOREIGN PURCHASES HAVE NOT BEEN THE MAJOR DRIVER OF WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON IN THE NEW ZEALAND HOUSING MARKET IN RECENT TIMES ANYWAY. AND WHAT WE ALSO KNOW IS THAT THE NEW ZEALAND HOUSING MARKET HAS ALREADY COOLED TO A DEGREE. WE'VE SEEN HOUSE-PRICE GROWTH SLOW DOWN QUITE SIGNIFICANTLY. WE THINK A LOT OF THAT REFLECTS THAT INTEREST RATES HAVE STARTED TO RISE, BUT ALSO PRUDENTIAL SETTINGS HAVE BEEN VERY TIGHT. AND SO WE THINK THAT THAT DOMESTIC STORY IS MUCH MORE AT WORK IN TERMS OF HAVING DRIVEN THE SLOWDOWN WE'VE SEEN IN THE NEW ZEALAND MARKET ALREADY. AND THE FOREIGN PURCHASER STORY HAS BEEN A SMALLER PART OF THE OVERALL STORY ANYWAY. IS THIS A BIT TOO LITTLE TOO LATE, DO YOU THINK? WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE OBJECTIVE IS. I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENED HERE IN TERMS OF POLICY, IT REFLECTS A BIT MORE OF WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER IN AUSTRALIA, WHERE THERE'S BEEN A BIT MORE OF A FOCUS ON THE FOREIGN PURCHASER. I THINK, TO A DEGREE, ACTUALLY, WE'VE SEEN ALREADY, IN AUSTRALIA IN PARTICULAR, IN THE NUMBERS, A PULLBACK IN TERMS OF FOREIGN INTEREST IN THE DOMESTIC MARKET. AND I THINK THAT PARTLY REFLECTS THE RESTRICTIONS WE SAW ON CHINESE CAPITAL OUTFLOWS EARLIER IN THE YEAR, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE MEASURES THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN BY THE LOCAL AUSTRALIAN STATES IN TERMS OF LIFTING STAMP DUTY ON FOREIGN PURCHASES. SO YOU MIGHT EXPECT SOMETHING SIMILAR TO HAPPEN IN NEW ZEALAND, BUT AS I SAID, I DON'T THINK THE BULK OF THE NATIONAL HOUSING MARKET STORY IN NEW ZEALAND HAS BEEN DOMINATED BY FOREIGN PURCHASES ANYWAY; IT'S BEEN MOSTLY A DOMESTIC STORY. DO YOU THINK FOREIGNERS ARE EVEN THAT INTERESTED IN HOUSING IN NEW ZEALAND AT THE MOMENT? DO YOU THINK WE'VE REACHED OUR PEAK? HAS THAT MOMENT PASSED, IF IT WAS THERE AT ALL? I THINK WHAT WE SAW IS SOME VERY STRONG INTEREST FROM FOREIGN PURCHASERS IN BOTH THE AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND HOUSING MARKETS OVER RECENT YEARS, PARTLY BECAUSE GLOBAL INTEREST RATES HAVE BEEN EXTRAORDINARILY LOW, SO THERE'S BEEN A SEARCH FOR YIELD ACROSS THE WORLD IN TERMS OF CAPITAL FLOWING IN AND PARTLY BECAUSE OUR CITIES ARE VERY ATTRACTIVE. I THINK THE OTHER ASPECT OF THE STORY IS ON THE OTHER SIDE, WE HAVE SEEN A TIGHTENING-UP IN TERMS OF CAPITAL OUTFLOWS OUT OF CHINA, WHICH I THINK HAS STARTED TO IMPINGE UPON THAT CAPITAL FLOW ANYWAY. AND THE MAIN THING, I THINK, TO KEEP IN MIND IS THE DOMINANT FORCE IS THE DOMESTIC MARKET; THE DOMINANT FORCE IS DOMESTIC BORROWERS FROM DOMESTIC BANKS AND THE WAY THAT THAT'S BEEN IMPACTING ON THE MARKET AND THE TIGHTER PRUDENTIAL SETTINGS WE'VE SEEN IN RECENT TIMES HAVE BEEN A BIG PART OF THE STORY. BECAUSE AUSTRALIA, OF COURSE, HAS HAD RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE. WHAT IMPACT HAS THAT HAD ON YOUR MARKET? WELL, WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT THE TREASURY SECRETARY HAS TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE FOREIGN INVESTMENT REVIEW BOARD HAS SEEN OF APPLICATIONS FROM FOREIGNERS. IF YOU'RE A FOREIGNER AND YOU WANT TO BUY A PROPERTY IN AUSTRALIA, THEN YOU NEED TO MAKE AN APPLICATION TO THE FOREIGN INVESTMENT REVIEW BOARD. AND THOSE NUMBERS COME OUT WITH QUITE A LAG. BUT WE HAVE HAD INFORMATION FROM THE TREASURY SHOWING THAT THOSE NUMBERS HAVE SLOWED DOWN, THOSE APPROVALS, THOSE APPLICATIONS OVER THE LAST LITTLE WHILE. NOW, THERE ARE A COLLECTION OF FACTORS THAT MIGHT HAVE SLOWED IT DOWN, BUT WE THINK ONE OF THE MAJOR FACTORS HAS BEEN TIGHTER RESTRICTIONS ON CAPITAL FLOWS OUT OF CHINA. I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT CAPITAL GAINS TAX AS WELL. SOME OF OUR BANK ECONOMISTS HERE HAVE GOT MORE ON BOARD WITH THIS IDEA. WHAT IMPACT DO YOU THINK A CAPITAL GAINS TAX WOULD HAVE ON THE NEW ZEALAND MARKET? WELL, IN THE FIRST INSTANCE, YOU WOULD THINK THAT IT MIGHT HAVE SOME EFFECT OF SLOWING THE MARKET TO A DEGREE, MAKING IT A BIT LESS ATTRACTIVE TO INVEST IN THAT PARTICULAR ASSET. AND I THINK ON THE INTRODUCTION, THAT'S WHAT IT'S LIKELY TO HAVE ` THE EFFECT IT'S LIKELY TO HAVE. I THINK AUSTRALIA OBVIOUSLY HAS A CAPITAL GAINS TAX, AND THE HOUSING MARKET HAS STILL PROVEN TO BE A VERY POPULAR AREA TO INVEST IN. SO ALTHOUGH IN THE INITIAL STAGE, YOU MIGHT EXPECT TO SEE SOME SORT OF EFFECT ON THE HOUSING MARKET, SOME SORT OF A SLOWER ACTIVITY, OVER TIME, I SUSPECT IT WON'T MAKE IT NECESSARILY A LESS ATTRACTIVE ASSET, IF YOU TAKE AUSTRALIA AS THE ILLUSTRATION. BIG PICTURE NOW. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE OUTLOOK FOR OUR ECONOMY? I KNOW IN THE PAST, YOU'VE CALLED NEW ZEALAND A ROCK-STAR ECONOMY. WHAT DO YOU SEE BIG PICTURE NOW? WELL, NEW ZEALAND HAS BEEN AN OUTPERFORMER. IT'S DONE VERY WELL IN THE POST-GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS PERIOD, AS HAS AUSTRALIA. AND NEW ZEALAND HAS BEEN A ROCK-STAR ECONOMY, IN MY VIEW, BECAUSE OF THAT OUTPERFORMANCE. A PART OF THAT OUTPERFORMANCE HAS BEEN THAT GROWTH HAS BEEN STRONG, AND A LOT OF THOSE FACTORS THAT HAVE BEEN SUPPORTING GROWTH ARE STILL VERY MUCH AT WORK ` THINGS LIKE THE STRONGER TIES TO ASIA, THE EXPORT OF HIGH-QUALITY FOOD PRODUCTS, THE TOURISM NUMBERS BEING VERY STRONG. THOSE THINGS HAVE BEEN QUITE SUPPORTIVE OF THE NEW ZEALAND GROWTH STORY, AND WE THINK THAT THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE THERE IN TERMS OF SUPPORTING NEW ZEALAND'S GROWTH. I THINK THE OTHER THING WE'VE POINTED TO OVER THE YEARS IN TERMS OF WHAT'S MADE NEW ZEALAND AN OUTPERFORMER ` AND AN OUTPERFORMER RELATIVE TO AUSTRALIA AS WELL ` HAS BEEN THE PRISTINE FISCAL POSITION ` THE FACT THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAD MANAGED TO GET BACK TO BUDGET SURPLUSES ` A NUMBER OF YEARS OF BUDGET SURPLUSES. SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'LL BE WATCHING VERY CAREFULLY TO SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT OVER THE COMING YEARS. BUT THE FUNDAMENTAL THING THAT'S BEEN UNDERPINNING NEW ZEALAND'S GROWTH, AND AUSTRALIA'S AS WELL, AND THAT'S MADE THESE TWO ECONOMIES STRONG PERFORMERS RELATIVE TO THE REST OF THE DEVELOPED WORLD, HAS BEEN ITS STRONG TIES TO THE ASIAN ECONOMIES. AND I THINK THOSE FORCES ARE STILL AT WORK. OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, WE HAVE HAD A BIT OF AN EVENING OUT OF NEW ZEALANDERS LEAVING AND GOING TO LIVE IN AUSTRALIA. DO YOU THINK WE COULD SEE ANOTHER BIG SURGE AGAIN IN THE FUTURE IF THE AUSTRALIAN ECONOMY TAKES OFF AGAIN? WHAT WE'VE SEEN, RATHER UNUSUALLY, IN RECENT TIMES, ACTUALLY, IS AN INFLOW INTO NEW ZEALAND ` A NET FLOW ACROSS THE TASMAN BACK TO NEW ZEALAND. NORMALLY, THE FLOW IS THE OTHER WAY ROUND, AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S BEEN LIKE OVER THE LAST 40 YEARS OF HISTORY. AND INSTEAD, WE'VE SEEN PEOPLE MOVING FROM AUSTRALIA TO NEW ZEALAND AND KIWIS COMING HOME. AND THAT'S PARTLY REFLECTIVE THAT THE NEW ZEALAND ECONOMY'S BEEN DOING WELL, THE LABOUR MARKET'S BEEN TIGHT AND THAT AUSTRALIA'S ECONOMY HASN'T BEEN DOING AS WELL. AT THE END OF THE MINING BOOM, THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION WASN'T AS STRONG IN AUSTRALIA. NOW, THAT IS STARTING TO SHOW SIGNS OF TURNING. THE AUSTRALIAN LABOUR MARKET IS TIGHTENING UP QUITE QUICKLY. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF JOBS CREATED IN AUSTRALIA IN THE PAST YEAR. THE MINING STORY, WHICH WAS IN DECLINE, IS NOW STARTING TO LIFT AGAIN, AND SO WE'RE STARTING TO SEE THAT FLOW REVERSE BACK AGAIN, WITH MORE PEOPLE STARTING TO MOVE BACK THE OTHER WAY. AND I SUSPECT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE AS WE LOOK FURTHER FORWARD. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'LL PROBABLY DO IS TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF THE LABOUR SUPPLY OUT OF NEW ZEALAND. THAT COMBINED WITH ANY SORT OF CUTBACK IN MIGRATION WILL SEE LABOUR SUPPLY POTENTIALLY CONSTRAINED. AND THAT MIGHT START TO MEAN THAT, ACTUALLY, YOU GET A BIT OF UPWARD PRESSURE ON WAGES GROWTH IN NEW ZEALAND, WHICH YOU HAVEN'T SEEN FOR A WHILE. PAUL BLOXHAM, HSBC'S CHIEF ECONOMIST, TALKING TO ME ON FRIDAY. GOOD MORNING TO JULIE ANNE GENTER, NEW MINISTER FOR WOMEN. Congratulations on your new role. I want to start off by asking you. You label yourself a feminist. What does it mean to you? It means women are equal to men and should be treated as such. Historically there has been unconscious bias at play, Which has created invisible barriers, especially for woman of colour. As a society we need to recognise that's the case. And we need policies to correct that. I want to ask you about sexual harassment. There has been emphasis on this with Harvey Weinstein. Do you think this will encourage women to come forward globally and New Zealand? I hope so and the me too hashtag wasn't used in New Zealand. I think people will be saddened to see how common it is for people to experience sexual harassment or violence. And talking about it is the first step for us to address it. The Harvey Weinstein case has been interesting and unprecedented And that it has gotten more traction because the woman who were his victims Have power in their own rights. Such as being celebrities. And coming forward with that has gotten more attention, And we need to recognise that sexual harassment is about power not sex. And many woman won't have been in a position where they will be able to speak openly about it. Particularly if the person who harassed them has power over them in the workplace. Do you think it is a problem in New Zealand and if so why aren't more people coming forward? It will have been a problem in New Zealand. And you can see it in Parliament a few years ago. Some of my colleagues spoke out about being victims of sexual violence. And I was shocked at how widespread it was for women in Parliament. And I think the reason it hasn't been addressed is because of this power issue. Where so often woman in vulnerable situations, If they do bring their complaints they might be treated with suspicion All my not be believed. We need safe pathways and policies for woman And anyone experiencing sexual harassment to make a complaint and address the situation. Under our legislation, employers have an obligation to ensure the employees and customers are free from harassment. And we have two pathways are making a complaint, One under employment relations and one under human rights. The human rights commission is a great place to go for advice If anyone is experiencing sexual harassment and wants to find out what their options are. The British Prime Minister Theresa May has said in Parliament We need to have a set of guidelines because of all the scandals. Do we need to have this in the New Zealand Parliament? We do have a policy in our Parliament. We could more proactively advertise that And ensure that employees working in Parliament understand their rights, And of course employers and all of us in Parliament and working as managers in Parliament Need to understand our obligations and responsibilities to ensure people feel safe. And feeling safe and comfortable as what this is about. And people have a right to live without feeling harassed. What is your feeling about the culture in Parliament? I think it is unfortunate that we don't yet have equal representation in Parliament, And 38% is better than what it has been. It has been closer to 30% over the last few terms. My experience in the Green Party has been fantastic, Because since its inception has had clear policies to encourage female representation in leadership. And we have proven that it is a success. And they are incredibly competent and capable woman. We have to recognise that if you don't have clear policies you will not get equal representation. I know there is woman who don't want to be there just because they are a woman, But the reality is because of unconscious bias, They aren't represented. And unless we have the policy, it won't happen. Have you experienced that bias personally on your journey to Parliament? I worked in the male dominated fields. I was the only female transport consultants in my office. I had the experience that some of my male colleagues were perhaps not quite as effective Were being paid more than me. Even though the man and manages around me wanted to encourage me, This still happens. Being the only female spokesperson on the finance committee. It's important that women and particularly woman of colour are involved in the decisions and policy at the high level. Whether that's finance or transport. The decision that is made in those fields affect woman's life every day And we have a different experience, And we have an ability to make sure that they are safe and have equal access and opportunity, Have equal pay, And that's what we need to achieve if we want an equal society. And that is one of your coalition agreements, You want to get read of the pay gap in the public sector And that's what you want to be judged by. We have a female Prime Minister, a female governor general, But only one New Zealand woman is leading in NZ NZX company. What is that say about the gender pay gap? It still exists and particularly for woman of colour. For woman on average it's close to 10%. And it has been stagnating, and we made progress on it. And for the last decade it has stagnated, And now there is a new opportunity with the government to take a more effective approach. That will close that last bit of the gap, But it takes some willingness to accept the evidence around what is going to be an effective policy. So we will start by leading with state services And we will close the gender pay gap. How long? I think we can do that within four years and aim to do it as quickly as possible. How will you do it? We made the chief executives of agencies accountable. We know there's a lot of policies and steps that can be taken. We just need to push those levers a bit harder. Isn't it more important that women are judged on their ability, rather than forcing people to even things out? Or is it just not happening by itself? 80% of the gap that exists is because of unexplained factors, And that is things like unconscious bias And other policies that the government will address, such as paid parental leave. And we can do something about it, and we well. What about quota for woman on boards? I am personally passionate about leading the conversation about how quotas are effective. Do you think we should implement them? We need to have a discussion about it. What is your view? The Green Party is just a view. We don't call it a quota. We go for a gender balanced approach to our list, And that encourages woman to step forward. And as we found in the last election we found woman dominating, Because they are capable. We need to recognise that the reason that women aren't there is because they are woman, not because they aren't capable. We need those systems and policies that are very deliberate to reverse this. The NZX has recently implemented a diverse city policy, And it will be interesting to see if that does make a difference. They have to account for diversity with clear policy, And if they don't make progress on that area they will be held accountable. I want to be clear if you support a quota on boards? I know overseas in some countries it has been incredibly effective, And while some countries have had requirements on quotas they haven't been meeting them. We will start with a conversation and any legislative requirements will require Getting buy in from our government partners. Went need to build political support. Yes, I think there is evidence that it is effective. And if we can't achieve it otherwise we need to explore it. AND JESS WILL BE BACK AFTER THE BREAK WITH THE NEW MINISTER FOR CHILDREN, TRACEY MARTIN. SHE MISSED OUT ON A SMACKING LAW REFERENDUM IN THE COALITION TALKS. WHAT ARE HER PLANS FOR HER NEW PORTFOLIO? I'M JOINED NOW BY TRACEY MARTIN, MINISTER FOR CHILDREN. Thank you for being here this morning. I want to start off by clarifying, what are you responsible for as the Minister for children? The prime minister has the child poverty reduction side of it. There is also a youth minister. Predominantly I am responsible for everything that our children do. From birth to 14 years old. And also some areas with regards to youth justice. When young people are remanded, how they are treated by the youth justice system comes under my purview. You've also got a social development Minister and an education minister as well. Will that take some careful managing with all of those portfolios? There will be some delegations coming to me from the Minister for social development and also from the Minister of education. There are a few delegations that I will be making to others under my Minister for internal affairs role. So we're still setting up the structures. How do you want to be measured as a minister at the end of the term? Probably in the same way as I want to be measured when I came into parliament. I want to be a brave Minister. If something needs to be done for the benefit, particularly in the oranga tamariki space, if something is for the benefit of children, I want to be brave enough to make that happen. I think a lot of politicians consider themselves about their politics. There are times when you have to put politics aside and do what is right. This is one of those ministries. One of the political things you've spoken out on before is a so-called anti-smacking bill. Do you still think it's okay to smack children? This is an interesting conversation that has come up several times in the seven days that open Minister for children. First of all, the conversation that I had I think on this program was around the law and whether it was a good law or whether it was confusing. It wasn't around people being able to smack their children. Secondly, my understanding is that there is nothing in that law that criminalises good parenting. It is a conversation about something that is not going to happen. I would like to move on to conversations about things that are going to happen that will protect children in this country. Is someone who is speaking for children, isn't that one of the important things that you should be speaking out against? The harm of children? Absolutely. I speak out against the harm that is being done to children. I am just interested that people are connecting those two things. You will also be the associate Minister of education. You are not a big fan of national standards. Why not? That is an agreement between the Labour Party and New Zealand first that national standards would go in the first hundred days. They have never been national, nor have they been standard. The other thing is that they were never about children's education. They were about checking on teachers. Both Chris Hipkins and myself believe that we should return to a high trust educational model we put the learning and teaching first, rather than the measurement of what a teacher is doing in the classroom. This will lead to better outcomes for children. Do you think some parents would worry that standards will slip if there is no standard to Cobo? *go by? It was clever language, because nobody can argue with a standard. The reality was that there has been formative assessment all through our education system. There is been improved formative assessment since we have the national curriculum. No, I am not concerned that parents won't know where their children are at and what are the next steps to take them on their educational journey. What would you like to see national standards replaced with? With those curriculum levels, with conversations between parents and teachers about their child and what their child needs, in the support they need to get them to the next step in their education. You're a straight shooter. What is going to happen to charter schools? That's a agreement with Labour Party and New Zealand first that charter schools are not what we see as the future for New Zealand education. There are contractual arrangements with the current charter schools that will have to be worked you with the current government, bbut at the end of the day they will not be part of the education system under this government. When the education act was amended to allow charter schools, I said then please don't mortgagor homes to open one of the schools because this will not be a long-term proposition. Don't you think they work for some children? Unfortunately what we've got is a bulk funded situation that is not producing any better results for some children than the state funded education system. There were already mechanisms inside the education act by which the schools could have operated, but they wouldn't make a profit. There is talk changing the youth Justice act to change the age from 17 to 18. What you think about that? We voted against that piece of legislation and argued against increasing the age. What we were arguing was that the justice system itself is failing our young people. We have 80 to 90% recidivism out of our youth courts. Fine, the age has been raised. We need to be better intervening earlier in the lives of young people that are going off the rails and we need to provide other tools for our police around that. A lot of people think of New Zealand first as Winston Peters party. Do you think you have a lot to prove as a minister to put your own stamp on things? That sounds a bit egotistical. It sounds like it's about creating a profile for Tracy Martin. One of the jobs are been given as Minister for seniors. The job I've been given is to do the best I can for the people of New Zealand under the portfolios that 11. I don't spend my time trying to get enough profile. Thank you for being here this morning. STAY WITH US. THE PANEL'S BACK AFTER THE BREAK. JOINING THE PANEL IS EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES COMMISSIONER DR JACKIE BLUE. WELCOME. Your thoughts on as the human rights Commissioner what Julie Anne Genter had to say? Absolutely. I am very pleased to see the Harvey Weinstein issue take prominence New Zealanders were. New Yorker said if he was there at the moment he would be arrested and taken to prison. How make complaints of you had to office of this nature? We get 60 to 70 complaints a year. We know that it is underreported. People don't necessarily recognise sexual harassment for auditors. correction: what it is aa person who feels in this situation should know what the rapeseed areas. There is also blame and self guilt. How do you define it? As you said, some people are not sure where they stand. It is a sexual actual behaviour that is offensive and unwelcome. It is usually repeated, but if it is a one-off it is usually quite serious. In the employer's policy there should be examples of what constitutes sexual harassment. It could be unwanted touching, a joke remark, a threat that they won't get promoted if they don't accept advances. I have a question. I have been struck by the prominence given to the number of sexual predators that we all know the names of in the United States and elsewhere. One of the things that struck me as the relatively small number of complaints that come through your office each year. I just wonder if the laws are responsible for creating a kind of defamation laws are responsible for creating a chilling effect on people's willingness to lodge a complaint. The sexual harassment provisions in both the human rights act and the employment relations act are quite clear. The employer has an obligation to protect the employee and also customers. It is important that people know that they can contact the human rights commission for any advice or guidance. The employer must have a policy in place that is accessible that provides examples of sexual harassment and procedure. The culture of the workplace should be such that the employee can actually feel safe coming forward. They will be listened to and there will be an investigation and it will be handled sensitively and confidentially. With things like Kevin Spacey and all of this, do you think it will make it easier for women ` and we are talking largely women ` to come forward in New Zealand? I employer to the ministers recognition that sexual harassment is about power, not sex. I have three daughters that work in the film and television industry, which is an industry that is often permeated by high concentrations of power. I think our role as mothers of females and males as to raise our girls to be strong enough that people don't mess with them there is or is the implicit threat with my daughters that they might punch you. Why am I not surprised? And to raise our men to understand that a relationship with a woman is not predicated on power and sexuality. That is our response ability to some degree. We heard Julie Anne Genter talk about the Green party. As a sort of thing prevalent in Parliament? I was never aware of it. There are been marriage breakups, but that is a different issue. As a result of the Harvey Weinstein issue in the publicity, I think there will be more complaints and the government will need to provide resources to deal with it. The office of the Commissioner is a safe place for women especially to go to. A small employer will find it really quite hard. The commission is the best place. They have all the skills, mediators and resources. More resourcing will make it easier. The most important thing here is respect. People in the workplace have to respect each other. That is the most important starting point around education. Again, your office can take the lead on that. Does your office need more resources? We have a very competent Infoline team and mediators. We have plenty of resource and capacity to cope with any enquiry, and so we would encourage anyone to phone our oh 800 number. We have an easy to understand publication of sexual harassment online. We will have that number in just a moment. Pay parity is another thing that Julie Anne Genter was hot on. It's a big task. It is a big task. I have seen efforts to try and close the gapm but we still have professors and associate professors predominantly men in our universities. Many more women come through at lower levels, but it is hard for the universities to do more. They could do more. I think this is one of the things that we've talked about. In all aspects of life there needs to be attention given to finding ways of ensuring that women are not disadvantaged in this respect. Allah, we have seen in the BBC and Channel 9 in Australia a lot of uproar about presenters in the difference between male and female presenters. Is transparency a part of it? I agree. I also agree with the Minister that the situation is worst for women of colour. Even in universities which are equitable and fair workplaces it is absolutely true. The number of Maori and Pacific are women with professorships you can publish still count on the fingers of two hands. These are real issues for Maori and Pacific women in this country. We'll know in our Maori and Pacific world that we have to be 10 times better to be equal. If you want to find Brown women in most institutions go to the toilet because they're cleaning them. I think it's really important that we challenge ` and this includes mainly men ` we challenge unconscious bias, particularly in the workplace. It's easy to say it's not a good idea, but when we actually see it, not to do anything makes us partially responsible. It's not just respect. It's more than respect. It's a willingness to challenge what we see is clear bias is that do exist. We are nearly out of. Time there are really big claims of this and it will be a big part of the government's fiscal agenda. I can see the cost being in the order of several billion. The government has got quite a big challenge around this whole area. I want to shoot on to what Tracy Martin had to say. The end of national standards. Charter schools are gone/ I know of at least two charter schools have done extraordinary things in their Maori communities. It will be interesting to see how that plays out. I want education that works for Maori and at the reality is that a lot of it hasn't. If we have to look at innovative models let's do it. Whatever replaces charter schools has to consider that mainstream hasn't necessarily worked for all of us. Did the plan for replacing national standards and sensible to you? I think education has been too much a political football over the years. Every successive government has made huge changes to education. I think we need a lot more stability. This is not a criticism of what Labour and the other parties are planning. It is my comment on what has happened over many years,� that whenever a new government comes and there are major disruptions to the education system. I would love to see more bipartisanship when it comes to education. FOR MORE INFORMATION OR TO MAKE A COMPLAINT ABOUT SEXUAL HARASSMENT, CALL 0800 4967 877. YOUR FEEDBACK IS NEXT. PLUS, OUR WORLD WAR ONE COMMEMORATIONS HAVING JUST MARKED TWO BATTLES IN OUR WORLD WAR ONE COMMEMORATIONS, NEW ZEALAND IS ALMOST AT THE END OF THIS CENTENNIAL PERIOD OF REMEMBRANCE. BUT A WELLINGTON HISTORIAN SAYS AN IMPORTANT PART OF OUR HISTORY HAS BEEN NEGLECTED ` THE ROLE OF NEW ZEALAND WOMEN IN THE GREAT WAR. HERE'S REPORTER WHENA OWEN. WHEN YOU ENTER TE PAPA'S STUNNING GALLIPOLI EXHIBITION, THE FIRST PERSON YOU ENCOUNTER IS THIS GUY, SPENCER WESTMACOTT. NOW, OF COURSE, HE DESERVES HIS PLACE IN HISTORY, BUT BEHIND EVERY GREAT MAN... (CHORAL MUSIC) MY MOTHER NEVER REALLY TALKED TO US ABOUT HER EXPERIENCES, WHEN SHE HAD HER SPELL WORKING IN THE HOSPITAL IN FRANCE. THIS IS WAIRARAPA RESIDENT YVONNE RIDDIFORD, THE DAUGHTER OF SPENCER WESTMACOTT. SHE'S TALKING ABOUT WESTMACOTT'S WIFE, JEAN, HER MOTHER. IT JUST, TO ME, EPITOMISES WHAT LIFE WAS LIKE. JEAN WAS A NEW ZEALANDER BUT WENT TO LIVE IN ENGLAND WITH HER FAMILY AND WAS INTRODUCED TO LONDON SOCIETY. AND SO IT WAS ONLY REALLY FIVE OR SO YEARS AFTER THIS THAT SHE WAS NEAR THE FRONT LINE. ...THAT SHE WAS NEARLY IN THE FRONT. YES, THAT'S RIGHT. AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT LIFE. ENTIRELY DIFFERENT LIFE. IN THE WAR, JEAN WORKED AS A VAD, A VOLUNTEER NURSE, IN HOSPITALS IN ENGLAND AND FRANCE AND LATER WITH A TEAM OF WOMEN DISMANTLING, CLEANING AND REASSEMBLING AIRCRAFT ENGINES. YES, THAT'S VI. I REMEMBER HER VERY WELL. AND TWO COUSINS IN YVONNE'S FAMILY, ENID AND VIOLET BELL, FROM WELLINGTON, ALSO TOOK THEMSELVES OFF TO THE FRONT. (STIRRING ORCHESTRAL MUSIC) I'M CONSTANTLY TOLD THAT WOMEN STAYED HOME, THEY TOOK OVER FARMS, THEY KNITTED AND FUNDRAISED. WELL, THERE'S ANOTHER STORY. THAT STORY IS BEING TOLD BY HISTORIAN JANE TOLERTON IN HER NEW BOOK, MAKE HER PRAISES HEARD AFAR. JANE ESTIMATES THAT IN WORLD WAR I, AROUND 1000 NEW ZEALAND WOMEN WENT TO THE THEATRES OF WAR. JUST OVER HALF WERE NURSES, AND THEIR ROLE, SHE SAYS, HAS BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED TO SOME EXTENT, BUT THERE WERE ALSO KIWI WOMEN WHO WENT AS VOLUNTEERS, AS AMBULANCE DRIVERS, DOCTORS, AND OTHERS WHO HAD ROLES IN THE WOMEN'S NAVAL, AIR FORCE AND AUXILIARY FORCES. THERE WERE WOMEN AS YOUNG AS 19 COMMISSIONED BY THE BRITISH RED CROSS FROM OFFICE JOBS IN PALMERSTON NORTH, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO GOT ON A SHIP AND WENT TO BRITAIN ` NOT BECAUSE THEY HAD RELATIVES IN THE WAR, BUT JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE GOING TO WORK IN THE WAR EFFORT. JANE POINTS TO A FEW PUBLICATIONS ABOUT THE ROLE OF MILITARY NURSES FROM CERTAIN PROVINCES BUT SAYS NO BOOKS HAVE BEEN COMMISSIONED SPECIFICALLY ABOUT NEW ZEALAND WOMEN IN WORLD WAR I. IN BRITAIN, IT'S THE OTHER WAY ROUND; THE BRITISH LIKE TO VAUNT THEIR WOMEN. THERE'S A WHOLE STACK OF BOOKS THERE ` BRITISH BOOKS. AND THAT IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE BRITISH STORY. THE AUSTRALIANS DO IT. HERE THEY ARE ` AUSTRALIAN WOMEN AT WAR, HEROIC AUSTRALIAN WOMEN AND AUSTRALIAN HEROINES OF WORLD WAR I. WHEN THE BRITISH STARTED GIVING OUT HONOURS ` THE OBES AND MBES ` IN 1918, NEW ZEALAND WOMEN WERE AMONG THE FIRST, AND IT WAS FOR THEIR WAR WORK OVERSEAS. SO IT'S VERY SURPRISING THAT THEY DID SO WELL AT THE TIME AND THEN THE HISTORY JUST WROTE THEM OUT. SO WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS? BECAUSE THERE'S A NARRATIVE ` WHAT I CALL THE NATIONAL NARRATIVE ` OF THE WAR, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE WOMEN IN IT. (EXPLOSIONS BOOM) BACK IN THE 1980S, JANE RECORDED THE ORAL WAR HISTORIES OF 84 WORLD WAR I VETERANS. APART FROM HER INSISTENCE THAT WOMEN HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT OF THE PICTURE, HOW DOES SHE THINK WE'VE DONE WITH OUR CENTENNIAL COMMEMORATIONS? WELL, I THINK WHAT WE'VE DONE IS WE VERY MUCH CEMENTED IN THE NATIONAL NARRATIVE OF THE WAR THAT WE ALREADY HAD INSTEAD OF EXPLORING THE NUANCE AND COMPLEXITY OF THE WAR. WE COULD'VE HAD A SIX-PART TELEVISION SERIES; WE COULD HAVE USED THE WORLD WAR I ORAL HISTORY ARCHIVE AND MADE A REALLY GOOD RADIO SERIES, LIKE THE BRITISH HAVE DONE. YVONNE RIDDIFORD SEES HER MOTHER'S WAR AS A TURNING POINT FOR NEW ZEALAND WOMEN. WOMEN HAD HAD THEIR OPPORTUNITY DURING THE WAR, AND THEY WEREN'T REALLY VERY HAPPY ABOUT GOING BACK INTO THEIR LITTLE BOXES, AND THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF WOMEN FINDING THEIR WAY. HER MOTHER DIDN'T GO BACK INTO A LITTLE BOX. HER HUSBAND'S WAR INJURIES MEANT SHE HAD TO DO MUCH OF THE MANUAL WORK ON THEIR REMOTE, STEEP KING COUNTRY FARM. SHE NOT ONLY DROVE HER HUSBAND AROUND; SHE WAS ABLE TO FIX THE FARM VEHICLES. YES, SHE WAS A REMARKABLE WOMAN AND NEVER COMPLAINED. NEVER COMPLAINED ABOUT ANYTHING. EARLY IN THE PIECE, AN ACADEMIC SAID TO ME, 'I DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING COS YOU'LL MAKE THEM INTO HEROINES.' IT WAS LIKE, 'A BIT OF THAT WOULDN'T GO AMISS ` JUST A BIT.' MARAE IS NEXT. REMEMBER, Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35 PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS. THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT 9. CAPTIONS BY ANTONY VLUG AND CATHERINE DE CHALAIN. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2017