MORENA, GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M CORIN DANN. WHAT A WEEK. SO MUCH TO COVER. FIRST TODAY, THOUGH ` BUSINESS IS IN A BAD MOOD. SURVEY AFTER SURVEY SHOWS CONFIDENCE IS DOWN. IS IT JUSTIFIED? AND IF SO, CAN THIS GOVERNMENT TALK THEM ROUND? I THINK WHAT WE ARE DEALING WITH HERE IS AN ISSUE AROUND PERCEPTION. AND THEN THERE'S TRUMP'S TARIFFS. I SAT DOWN WITH VISITING EUROPEAN TRADE COMMISSIONER CECILIA MALMSTROM TO ASK WHETHER THE WORLD IS FACING A FULL-BLOWN TRADE WAR TO ASK WHETHER THE WORLD IS FACING A FULL-BLOWN TRADE WAR AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR US. IT'S BAD NEWS FOR THE WORLD, BUT WE'VE SEEN DONALD TRUMP WHEN CHINA RETALIATED. HE IMMEDIATELY DOUBLED DOWN ON IT. HE STARTED IT. AND DESPITE TRUMP'S BACKDOWN ON HIS HARDLINE IMMIGRATION POLICY THIS WEEK, THE CONTROVERSY CONTINUES. THE UN SAYS TRUMP'S CHANGE OF HEART MAY NOT BE ENOUGH. DETAINING CHILDREN IS A HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION AND COULD AMOUNT TO TORTURE UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW. I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT AND ALL OUR OTHER INTERVIEWS WITH OUR PANEL, DR JENNIFER CURTIN, SAM JOHNSON AND MARIANNE ELLIOTT. CAPTIONS BY VIRGINIA PHILP AND ANTONY VLUG. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2018. TIME NOW FOR SOME QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS FROM THE WEEK. QUESTION: AFTER AN AMAZING FEW DAYS, WHAT IS THERE LEFT TO SAY THAT HASN'T ALREADY BEEN SAID ABOUT THE PRIME MINISTER AND CLARKE GAYFORD'S NEW BABY DAUGHTER? ANSWER: NOT MUCH, EXCEPT TO SAY CONGRATULATIONS, PRIME MINISTER, AND GOOD LUCK. SHE'LL BE LEAVING HOSPITAL THIS MORNING AT 11. WE'LL BE TAKING THAT LIVE HERE ON TVNZ 1. QUESTION: WILL THE OUTCRY WE'VE SEEN THIS WEEK OVER TRUMP'S SHOCKING DECISION TO USE 'TENDER AGE' SHELTERS FOR MIGRANT'S CHILDREN MARK A TURNING FOR THIS TEFLON PRESIDENT? ANSWER: YOU MIGHT THINK SO, GIVEN THIS POLICY IS INDEFENSIBLE! BUT THE SWIFT BACKDOWN WILL PROBABLY STEM THE FALLOUT WITH HIS DIE-HARD SUPPORTERS, SO MAYBE NOT. INTERNATIONALLY? WELL, IT'S MORE FUEL TO THE FIRE! IMAGINE THE RECEPTION HE'S GONNA GET WHEN HE VISITS THE UK AND THE QUEEN NEXT MONTH. QUESTION ` WAS DANCING STAR AND ACT MP DAVID SEYMOUR A LITTLE OUT OF STEP WITH PUBLIC OPINION WITH HIS SUGGESTION HE'S OPEN TO SCRAPPING PUBLIC HOLIDAY'S? ANSWER: YES. AFTER WINNING OVER NEW NON-POLITICAL FANS WITH A GUTSY PERFORMANCE ON DANCING WITH THE STARS, WHY WOULD YOU RISK ALIENATING THOSE SAME PUNTERS WITH PHILOSOPHICAL MUSINGS ABOUT WHETHER IT'S THE STATE WHO SHOULD DECIDE YOUR PUBLIC HOLIDAY'S? TALK ABOUT FOOT IN MOUTH. BUT WE START WITH AN ISSUE THAT DAVID SEYMOUR WOULD NO DOUBT PREFER TO BE TALKING ABOUT. AND THAT'S WHY BUSINESS HAS REMAINED GRUMPY SINCE THIS LABOUR-LED GOVERNMENT TOOK OFFICE. ONE OF THE LATEST BUSINESS CONFIDENCE SURVEYS IS FROM THE AUCKLAND CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. ITS CEO, MICHAEL BARNETT, SAYS BUSINESS CONFIDENCE IS IN FREEFALL. IF I HAVE A LOOK IN JUNE OF LAST YEAR, I HAD 33% OF BUSINESSES THINKING THAT THE ECONOMY WOULD IMPROVE; 8% SAYING THAT IT WOULD DETERIORATE. THIS YEAR IN JUNE, 44% OF THE SURVEY RESPONDENTS SAID THAT THE ECONOMY OVER THE NEXT THREE TO SIX MONTHS WILL DETERIORATE. WHAT IS DRIVING THAT? IS THAT JUST A REACTION TO THIS GOVERNMENT? POLITICAL BIAS? THAT THEY DON'T LIKE THE GOVERNMENT, THEREFORE THEY'RE GRUMPY? BECAUSE THE NUMBER` SOME SURVEYS SHOW THE OWN ACTIVITY OF BUSINESSES ISN'T TOO BAD. AND THERE IS REASONABLY GOOD ACTIVITY OUT THERE IN SOME SECTORS, BUT I THINK IF YOU'D ASKED ME THAT QUESTION AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR, I WOULD HAVE SAID A LITTLE BIT OF A FIXATION WITH CHANGE OF GOVERNMENT, CHANGE OF PEOPLE. PEOPLE NEED TO GET USED TO THAT. WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE IT WORK? I THINK THE LACK OF DECISION MAKING IN A NUMBER OF AREAS IS NOW STARTING TO SHOW UP. SO, IF YOU LOOK AT THE CONSTRUCTION SECTOR AND LOOK AT THE PIPELINE OF BUSINESS, THAT IS NOT THERE AT THE MOMENT. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PROJECTS IN AUCKLAND ESPECIALLY THAT COULD BE UNDERTAKEN, BUT THEY'RE NOT. SO WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THE WORKFORCE THAT WAS HERE IN AUCKLAND THAT WERE WORKING ON PROJECTS ARE NOW IN QUEENSLAND. AND IF YOU HAVE A LOOK AT THE PROJECTS THAT ARE SITTING, WAITING FOR GOVERNMENT TO RESPOND, THERE'S PROJECTS LIKE PENLINK, LIKE MILL ROAD, LIKE THE EAST-WEST. THEY'RE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF WORK. THE WORKFORCE HAS LEFT, AND EVEN IF THEY MADE A DECISION TODAY, BUSINESSES KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TOOL UP, AND THEY KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO INVEST IN TALENT. SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT WHILE WE MIGHT HAVE SOME ACTIVITY AT THE MOMENT, THE RISK IS IN, WHAT, SIX TO 12 MONTHS TIME THAT IT DROPS AWAY BECAUSE BUSINESSES AREN'T INVESTING BECAUSE OF THIS CONFIDENCE DIP? BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A PIPELINE OF WORK, BUSINESSES AREN'T INVESTING. AND BUSINESSES NEED A PIPELINE OF WORK. THEY NEED TO HAVE CONFIDENCE. SO I THINK THAT'S ONE ELEMENT OF IT. I THINK THAT THERE'S A HUGE LABOUR LAW CHANGE HAPPENING, AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT GOVERNMENT HAS ARTICULATED IT WELL. YOU KNOW, I THINK EVERYBODY EXPECTED THE MINIMUM WAGE TO MOVE, BUT THE RECENT COMMENTS ABOUT THE $20 AN HOUR AND 'IF YOU CAN'T COPE, PICK UP YOUR BAG AND LEAVE' SORT OF THING. IT'S THAT UNDERMINING OF BUSINESS AND UNDERMINING OF THE VALUE OF BUSINESS TO THE ECONOMY BY SOME OF THE MINISTERS. I DON'T THINK THAT'S A GOOD MESSAGE TO GO THERE. BUT THEY WERE ELECTED. THEY'VE GOT A MANDATE. THEY SEEM CERTAINLY VERY DETERMINED WHEN IT COMES TO FAIR PAY AND CHANGES TO EMPLOYMENT LAW. SHOULDN'T BUSINESS EXPECT THE PENDULUM TO SWING BACK A LITTLE BIT? THEY'VE HAD IT GOOD FOR NINE YEARS. AND I DO THINK THAT BUSINESSES` SO, IF YOU LOOK AT THE 90 DAY, YOU LOOK AT THE MINIMUM WAGE, EVEN ORGANISATIONS LIKE THE CHAMBER AND OTHERS HAVE SAID, 'LOOK, WE EXPECTED THAT, AND IT'S COME.' BUT TO TURN AROUND AND LOOK AND SAY AND THE NEXT STEP IS THE $20 AN HOUR AND IF YOU CAN'T HACK THE PACE, PERHAPS YOU SHOULD GET OUT OF BUSINESSES ` I THINK IT'S THAT TYPE OF COMMENT. THE MOVE INTO TARANAKI AND THE ACTION AROUND THE OIL SHOWED A COMPLETE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING, A COMPLETE LACK OF PROCESS, AND THE COMMENTARY FROM SOME OF THE GOVERNMENT MINISTERS SENT A SIGNAL THAT WE'RE IDEOLOGICALLY DRIVEN, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IRRESPECTIVE. I THINK EVERYBODY NEEDS TO STOP AND THINK. THEY MAY NEED TO CHANGE DIRECTION, BUT WE NEED TO TRANSITION. BUSINESS NEEDS TO BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE ABLE TO TRANSITION INTO A NEW ECONOMY. DO YOU THINK WE COULD BE IN FOR A WINTER OF DISCONTENT? WILL WE REALLY SEE THINGS DROP AWAY AND A SLOWDOWN IN THE ECONOMY AND A REAL MOOD OF, WELL, DISCONTENT? I THINK THE ONE OTHER ELEMENT THAT'S SITTING OUT THERE IS THE LACK OF AVAILABILITY OF SKILLS, AND THAT'S GETTING WORSE. SO IF YOU COUPLE THE FACT THAT THE ECONOMY IS STRUGGLING TO GROW AND YOU LOOK AT THE LACK OF DECISION MAKING, I THINK IT WILL PERPETUATE, AND YOU'LL CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THE GROWTH CAN'T HAPPEN. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REBUILD FOR IT. WILL THERE BE DISCONTENT? I THINK THE LONGER WE LEAVE THIS BLACK HOLE OF DECISION MAKING, THE LONGER WE DON'T GET A LITTLE BIT OF ACTION AND MOTION INTO THE THINGS THAT NEED TO HAPPEN, THERE'S MORE LIKELY TO BE DISCONTENT. MICHAEL BARNETT FROM THE AUCKLAND CHAMBER OF COMMERCE THERE. SO I ASKED FINANCE MINISTER GRANT ROBERTSON WHETHER HE IS CONCERNED THAT THE THIS GLOOMINESS COULD BECOME A DANGEROUS SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY THAT THREATENS THE ECONOMY AND JOBS. I HEAR DIFFERENT THINGS FROM BUSINESS IN AUCKLAND AND AROUND THE COUNTRY AS I'VE BEEN GOING THERE. OF COURSE, THERE HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, SOME CONCERNS RAISED AND SOME UNCERTAINTY, PERHAPS, WITH A NEW GOVERNMENT, BUT, LOOK, LET'S TAKE THE EXAMPLE OF AUCKLAND. WE'VE PUT OUT A $28B TRANSPORT PLAN ALONG WITH AUCKLAND COUNCIL WITH A PIPELINE OF PROJECTS GOING OUT OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS. IN TERMS OF YOUR QUESTION ABOUT BUSINESS INVESTMENT, THE GDP NUMBERS THAT WE'VE SEEN THIS WEEK SHOW THAT THERE WAS A 5.5% INCREASE IN BUSINESS INVESTMENT IN THE YEAR TO MARCH COMPARED TO A 3.9% INCREASE IN THE YEAR TO MARCH THE PREVIOUS YEAR. SO ARE BUSINESS BEING UNREASONABLE? ARE BUSINESS BEING FLAT-OUT UNREASONABLE? LOOK, I THINK THE CONDITIONS, THE UNDERLYING CONDITIONS OF THE ECONOMY, THE ENVIRONMENT WE'RE WORKING IN NOW, HAS GOT A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY. I THINK WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH HERE IS AN ISSUE AROUND PERCEPTION, AND, SURE, WE CAN IMPROVE THE WAYS WE COMMUNICATE, AND WE NEED TO ALWAYS WORK ON THAT, AND WE NEED TO WORK ON THE PARTNERSHIPS THAT WE'RE DEVELOPING WITH BUSINESS, BUT THE POINT I'M MAKING IS ` I ACTUALLY THINK A LOT OF BUSINESSES ARE GETTING ON WITH THE JOB. WE'RE WORKING CLOSELY WITH THEM. THERE WILL BE SOME CHANGES, OF COURSE, WITH A NEW GOVERNMENT, BUT I THINK WE'RE GONNA WORK ON THOSE TOGETHER. BUT YOU'VE HAD A CHARM OFFENSIVE IN SOME WAYS. YOU'VE MADE AN EFFORT. I KNOW THE PRIME MINISTER HAS SAID THAT AS WELL. YOU'VE BEEN MAKING A BIG EFFORT, BUT THE MESSAGE WE'RE GETTING FROM MICHAEL BARNETT AND A NUMBER` OF THE ANZ SURVEY AND OTHERS ` NOT ALL OF THEM, GRANTED ` IS THAT THEY'RE NOT CONVINCED AND THAT THEY ARE SERIOUSLY CONCERNED. THIS IS NOT A NEW THING FOR GOVERNMENTS WHERE THE LABOUR PARTY'S AT THE CENTRE OF THEM. IF YOU GO BACK HISTORICALLY ON BUSINESS CONFIDENCE DATA, THIS HAPPENS. IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MATCH UP WITH GDP GROWTH, WHICH HAS ACTUALLY BEEN HISTORICALLY VERY GOOD UNDER LABOUR-LED GOVERNMENTS. WE JUST HAVE TO KEEP WORKING TOGETHER ON THESE RELATIONSHIPS. WE'VE GOT A NUMBER OF WORK PROGRAMMES UNDERWAY THAT THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY ARE ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL TO. THE FUTURE OF WORK AREA THAT I'M WORKING ON. SOME OF THE INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS CHANGES. WE KNOW WE HAVE TO WORK AS A PARTNERSHIP. THE POINT I'M MAKING IS ` BUSINESSES ARE WORKING HARD. THEY'RE DOING WELL, AND THE GOVERNMENTS THERE TO SUPPORT THEM. THEY'RE DOING WELL, AND THE GOVERNMENT'S THERE TO SUPPORT THEM. I GUESS ONE WAY OF LOOKING AT THIS IS THEM PUSHING BACK AGAINST SOME OF YOUR AGENDA. WILL YOU WEAKEN ANY OF THAT AGENDA? WILL YOU CHANGE ANY OF IT ` GIVE THEM SOME CONCESSIONS. AND I GUESS EMPLOYMENT LAW IS THE BIG ONE, BUT IN OTHER AREAS AS WELL AND I GUESS EMPLOYMENT LAW IS THE BIG ONE, BUT IN OTHER AREAS AS WELL. WILL YOU ACTUALLY ADJUST, COS THAT'S ULTIMATELY WHAT THEY WANT, ISN'T IT? WELL, I DON'T THINK IT'S A MATTER OF CONCESSIONS, NECESSARILY, BUT IF WE TAKE THE INDUSTRIAL LAW POINT, WE WANT TO WORK TOGETHER ON THAT. THE FAIR PAY AGREEMENTS, WE'VE GOT A WORKING GROUP THERE HEADED BY JIM BOLGER, WITH A NUMBER OF BUSINESS REPRESENTATIVES ON IT. ON THE HOLIDAYS ACT, WE'RE DOING THAT JOINTLY TOGETHER WITH THE COUNCIL OF TRADE UNIONS AND BUSINESS NEW ZEALAND, SO I DON'T SEE IT AS A MATTER OF CONCESSIONS. WE'VE GOT A POLICY PROGRAMME. WE WANT TO WORK THAT THROUGH. WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO ADDRESS HERE IN THOSE AREAS IS TO GET, YOU KNOW, A BALANCE IN WORKPLACE RELATIONS, TO MAKE SURE WE IMPROVE THE WAGES OF NEW ZEALANDERS. I KNOW THAT THOSE THINGS ARE IN PRINCIPLES SHARED BY MANY IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, SO, NO, IT'S NOT A MATTER OF CONCESSIONS. IT'S A MATTER OF A PARTNERSHIP BEING DEVELOPED. DO YOU AGREE WITH IAN LEES-GALLOWAY WHEN HE SUGGESTS THAT IF BUSINESSES CAN'T COPE WITH THESE INCREASES IN THE MINIMUM WAGE, THEN, TOUGH LUCK, MAYBE THEY SHOULDN'T BE BUSINESS. I MEAN, THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT WITH THESE INCREASES IN THE MINIMUM WAGE, THEN, TOUGH LUCK, MAYBE THEY SHOULDN'T BE BUSINESS. I MEAN, THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT HE SUGGESTED TO ME ON THE Q+A SHOW. I THINK THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE SUBTLETY TO IT THAN THAT. BUT WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS THAT THE MINIMUM WAGE HAS NOW BEEN INCREASED TO $16.50. WE HAVE A LONG-TERM PLAN TO INCREASE THAT TO $20 AN HOUR BY 2021. WE WANT TO WORK WITH THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY ON HOW WE ROLL OUT THOSE INCREASES. ACTUALLY, MY EXPERIENCE IS THAT SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES ALREADY PAY ABOVE THE MINIMUM WAGE IN THE MOST PART. IT'S ACTUALLY OFTEN THE MULTINATIONALS THAT DON'T, BUT WE WANT NEW ZEALANDERS TO BE ABLE TO WORK, YOU KNOW, A 40-, 50-HOUR WEEK AND COME HOME AND HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE. WE ALL KNOW WAGES NEED TO LIFT. THE GOVERNMENT'S GOT A RESPONSIBILITY TO LEAD ON THAT. What do you say to businesses about $20 an hour? We want to continue to support them. Maybe it is about sorting out the infrastructure and transport needs that are holding up the business. We are doing a whole lot of things in community to help businesses to grow. Just one more question on this. At what point do you say is the labour party, and to quote Sir Michael Cullen, We won, and you lost, eat that. I am not going to use that sort of language. It is about looking forward to the middle part of the 21st century and it is about an economy where people get a fair share. Those are the principles of this government and we are determined to implement them. Looking at GDP we got a read on the first part of the year, 0.5%, trucking along in a little bit sluggish. We are not really growing at all. You were criticising the last government when you were in opposition. Per person growth is something New Zealand needs to work on. We were looking at the first three months of this year and most New Zealanders would understand that we cannot turn things around in the first five months. We are focusing on lifting the skills of the workforce. We want to lift the productivity of the economy and we want to transition through to the lower carbon economy. We want to add value to what we do. All of that takes more than five months and actually what the forecasters are saying is that in the second and third quarters of this year, we are going to see some lift on the investment we are making in the families package. We have some fiscal stimulus coming and medium and long-term, we transition to an economy that is becoming more productive. How important are our big companies and Fonterra when we talk about value add. A huge company for New Zealand. There are been a lot of people saying you should split that off and they should grow with extra capital. Your own cabinet ministers have suggested this, including Shane Jones. Do you think it is time for our largest company to be looked at? That will ultimately be matter for Fonterra shareholders to decide but I think Fonterra has begun work on their value add strategy and some of that plant development we have seen in New Zealand In terms of high-quality cheese products and moving away from those raw commodities. I want to see that grow bigger and faster and I have made that point to Fonterra when I was in opposition and I make that point again today. Would you encourage Fonterra to look at the capital structure? It has been an issue for many years. I do not think it is my job to say that to them but I would say that as a company, looking ahead for the next few years, it is in the value add space that Fonterra and indeed every other New Zealand company Has to be looking. We can no longer rely on raw commodities. We have to look at opportunities to add value because that is where the higher wage jobs come in. But it is very difficult for them to grow in that way if they do not have the capital to do it. We do have the dairy industry restructuring review underway and that can look at some elements in the way Fonterra is growing. This is already the strategy of Fonterra to move up the value chain and we want to support all our exporters to be doing that and a bigger way and in a faster way. Have you had advice on what are the potential impact a trade wall would be New Zealand? This wall looks like particularly between China and America and it looks like it has kicked off. A small country like New Zealand rely so much on our trading and any kind of trade wall creates instability and it would be bad for us. We know it does not work for New Zealand and we do best is a small country with a rules-based trade regime where we have got certainty for our exporters, so we have to continue doing the job that we have got. It is also a reason why it is so important that we diversify our markets. A free-trade deal with the European Union and hopefully one with the UK is so important as we continue diversifying. Well this knock some points off the gross domestic product? We know that as a small economy, we do have two the aware of anything that happens in the global environment. Be it a trade wall or a geopolitical issue. When things change internationally, they affect us. We have to prepare ourselves by being more robust and sustainable and more productive. Should we push back? We do not have an exemption on steel. It is the principle of the matter. When do we push back on Trump? We keep a close eye on WTO disputes. We do not get involved unless we have a distinct interest. The two best way to deal with that is to continue to support a strong global rules based trade And make high-quality agreements like the one I hope we get with the European Union. In the end, New Zealand won't be resolving things alone and we have to do things at global level. Is your government a bit timid when it comes to the United States? Child separation issue with the migrants when it comes to Trump. Why are we seeing a more vocal response? I think New Zealand is rightly proud of our independent stance on the world stage and on issues like climate change. We have seen New Zealand out there doing that and I think most New Zealanders would have looked at what was happening in the United States and said this is not a humanitarian way of dealing with things. New Zealand will always stand up for what it believes in on the world stage. We have an independent trade policy and foreign policy. Did we express that to the United States? You would not expect any countries to comment regularly on Other countries internal affairs. Does the role change for you with Jacinda Ardern taking a break for the next six weeks? Do you take a more prominent role> not particularly but I think all ministers realise with the Prime Minister away for six weeks, we all have to step up to do particular speeches or make sure we are covering off any gaps, But with Winston Peters as the acting prime minister, we will all be there to support him and with finance minister, I am busy. Do you work well with Winston? I have worked the last nine months with him and I have enjoyed and we speak often and I don't foresee any difficulties at all. SEND US YOUR THOUGHTS. WE'RE ON TWITTER AT NZQANDA. YOU CAN EMAIL US AT Q+A AT TVNZ.CO.NZ STAY WITH. THE PANEL'S HERE AFTER THE BREAK. AND LATER ` NEGOTIATIONS ON A FREE TRADE AGREEMENT WITH THE EU HAVE OFFICIALLY BEGUN. WHAT CHANCE OF MAKING HEADWAY ON THAT AGE-OLD STICKING POINT ` TARIFFS ON OUR FARMING GOODS. THAT'S COMING UP. LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL ` POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR JENNIFER CURTIN FROM AUCKLAND UNIVERSITY. SAM JOHNSON, FOUNDER OF THE VOLUNTEER ARMY FOUNDER AND HEAD OF COMMUNITY AT MYCARE. MARIANNE ELLIOTT, HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER, CO-DIRECTOR OF THE WORKSHOP, A POLICY THINK-TANK. Jennifer, let's start with the business confidence issue. Does the government have a political problem? I think this is an interesting one. Business confident is being measured by these quarterly surveys. We know from conversations with business leaders that they did not anticipate this government be formed, so they were already a couple of months behind the eight ball. I wonder how much they were expecting national to win and so did not do the work of a business community in advance of the election. Why would they be surprised about a $20 living wage standard? Why did they assume potentially that National was definitely going to win? Those other conversations that business leaders should be having with all parties on advance of an election campaign. Investment in oil and gas is kind of not something that everybody is interested in. France and New York and London are all thinking about this, so this element of shock and then ambivalence and grumpiness As an away almost ideological. It can have implications and stop investing and the economy weakens. I think that is a worry. It was a very good interview by the Finance Minister. A new government starts playing with employment laws and labour laws. Triangulation means a lot different to a construction company versus a courier company. We need to see business confidence grow up over the next few months. The speed of the changes does not give a lot of confidence to the business sector. Are they never going to agree and they just need to get over it? I think they need to act in a responsible way And make plans for the future. And ought to have really foresee this. The $20 an hour wage has been signalled for 2021 and there is plenty of time for a business to prepare. As someone who has owned a business in hospitality. But businesses did not like that message that if it is cannot cope, then tough luck, they felt under siege. That is a little bit sensitive of them and these are the settings within which you need to build a successful business if that is what you have chosen to do. Small and medium-sized businesses, often the business owners are moving in the direction of higher wages and I wonder Is that because of the closer connection to workers and you see the impact on the lives. If someone is working hard on your business to make your business successful and they are not making enough money to rent a home in your city for the family, that does not feel good. That is not acceptable as a business owner. I think there is a responsibility on business owners to meet that. The very significant role of the unions and for business to really see the unions as a social partner and working with the government. That signal has come out very strong and I think that is a good signal but that is a different paradigms from the last nine years. Do we employ a new people or is the machinery of government going to keep up with the rate and pace of change with technology? We can develop a whole new pieces of kit all the time but will government be able to keep up with that and where is the intersection? There is insecurity and we are insure about that. It is not necessarily a bad thing and I think it would be the same if it was the national government and as well. The amazing confrontation of government machinery with new technology and a new emerging models of economy. Communication seems to be an issue. Could the government lift their game? They need to message it better and I think to assume it is a universal discontent is problematic and even in Auckland we have seen a new fast food company coming in And has announced 12 new businesses and Fletcher's is going to open a new factory in Drury, And Uber is talking about Uber Aircraft to get to work. To think that it is a universal lack of confidence is problematic. The responsibility is on government to keep going with their messages and to reassure business. At some point somebody is going to blank and somebody is going to give and the narrative coming out of the business community is not necessarily going to help our international reputation In terms of what our investors overseas and the messages they are going to get. Who do you think is going to blink? I have no idea. What can New Zealand do with overseas trade? We have to be careful about making a point. From a farming background, what does it mean for us to Export wheat and barley? I would like to see more commentary of the government on the issues that are affecting us and I think we have been a bit quiet recently. There are strong opinions in the labour government and we have a courageous prime minister and let's see the opinions coming out. You have just been in Europe, Jennifer. I think there is nervousness generally but I don't not think New Zealand are the only country to be wanting to tread softly with trump and not raise the ire. The OECD is playing it gently. There is a reasoning behind this in terms of not wanting to one Hance the rage that he has correction: enhance the rage. Europe is nervous. You were saying earlier on that there is a bit of psychology here and there is a reluctance to inflame Donald Trump. Part of his narrative that is he saying to his base as we have to protect America against the world And there must be a sense against global leaders that if they come back hard against him, it just inflames that sense amongst his base That they ought to be retaliating. It really enforces that story that he is selling to his base. NEGOTIATIONS ON A FREE TRADE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE EU AND NEW ZEALAND OFFICIALLY GOT UNDER WAY IN WELLINGTON THIS WEEK. THE EU IS OUR THIRD-LARGEST TRADING PARTNER, BUT THERE ARE SOME KEY POINTS OF CONTENTION AROUND FOOD AND AGRICULTURE. ONE IS WHAT'S KNOWN AS GEOGRAPHICAL INDICATORS ` THAT IS, NEW ZEALAND FIRMS USE OF NAMES LIKE CAMEMBERT AND BRIE. AND IT'S A BIG DEAL ACCORDING TO THE EUROPEAN TRADE COMMISSIONER, CECILIA MALMSTROM. THIS IS A HUGE ISSUE, BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY INVOLVED THERE, AND IT'S ABOUT SOME ICONIC BRANDS, IN CHEESES, BUT IT'S ALSO A LOT IN WINE, AND THERE WE PROTECT A LOT OF NEW ZEALAND WINES ON THE EUROPEAN MARKET, SO THAT YOU WILL REALLY KNOW THAT YOU ARE GETTING THE REAL THING WHEN YOU BUY IT. IT COULD BE SOME HAMS AND SO ON. SO MOST OF THIS WILL NOT BE A PROBLEM, BUT THERE ARE SOME CHEESES THAT ARE ALSO PRODUCED HERE SINCE, YOU KNOW, GENERATIONS OF MIGRANTS, BUT WE WILL LOOK INTO IT. SO YOU WILL BE LOOKING FOR NEW ZEALAND PRODUCERS, SAY, OF A BRIE CHEESE TO NOT USE THAT TERM 'BRIE'? WE WOULD BE LOOKING FOR THESE GEOGRAPHICALLY INDICATIONS TO BE PROTECTED, SO THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU BUY A PROSCIUTTO DI PARMA, IT'S THE REAL THING OR CHAMPAGNE IS CHAMPAGNE. IT'S NOT SPARKLING WINE; IT'S SOMETHING ELSE. IT'S CHAMPAGNE. SO IT COULD BE 'INSPIRED BY BRIE'? IT COULD BE...? NO, NOT REALLY 'INSPIRED BY'. YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERY CASE CASE-BY-CASE. BUT THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF OUR ECONOMY, SO THIS IS CLEARLY THE MANDATE THAT I BRING HERE TODAY THAT WE WILL SEEK TO PROTECT. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THE NEW ZEALAND GOVERNMENT WILL NEED TO GIVE SOMETHING ON? WELL, WE HAVE TO` I THINK THERE WILL BE A HANDFUL OF CASES THAT WILL BE COMPLICATED, AND WE'LL FIND WAYS TO DEAL WITH THIS. IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME, SO I'M NOT REALLY WORRIED ABOUT THIS. THERE'S ANOTHER ISSUE IN TERMS OF TRADE, SLIGHTLY SEPARATE FROM THE EU DEAL, WHICH IS AROUND THE BREXIT AND THE ISSUE OF NEW ZEALAND SHEEP MEAT EXPORTS INTO EUROPEAN UNION. IF THE BREXIT GOES AHEAD AS PLANNED, THE CURRENT QUOTA WOULD BE SPLIT, AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF CONCERNS HERE THAT THIS COULD DISADVANTAGE NEW ZEALAND SHEEP MEAT EXPORTERS. CAN YOU GIVE THEM ANY GUARANTEE THAT THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE WORSE OFF IF IN FACT THE QUOTA IS SPLIT AND THAT FLEXIBILITY IS REMOVED, THAT THEY HAVE AT THE MOMENT? UNFORTUNATELY, I CAN'T, BECAUSE WE WILL` THIS IS A LOSE-LOSE SITUATION. WE WILL ALL LOSE OUT OF THE BRITISH LEAVING, SO WE HAVE TO DIVIDE THE QUOTA SOMEHOW. IF THE BRITS ARE LEAVING US, WE CANNOT TAKE OVER ALL THOSE QUOTAS. THAT WOULD BE POLITICALLY TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE, SO WE WILL HAVE TO SPLIT THEM SOMEHOW. OF COURSE, WE SEEK TO DO THAT IN A DIALOGUE AND A FRIENDLY WAY. OBVIOUSLY, MAKE SURE THAT'S IN COMPLIANCE WITH INTERNATIONAL RULES, SO WE TALK ON HOW TO SOLVE IT. WE HAVEN'T SOLVED IT YET, BUT WE ARE DISCUSSING. I KNOW THAT THERE ARE CONCERNS HERE AND AUSTRALIA AND A FEW OTHER COUNTRIES AS WELL. WE JUST NEED TO FIND A WAY. BUT NO EASY WAY` YOU CAN'T GIVE ANY GUARANTEE? NO, I CAN'T, AND THERE ARE NO WINNERS IN THIS UNFORTUNATELY, SO THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES, BUT WE WILL TRY TO FIND A WAY TO LIMIT THOSE PROBLEMS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. ANY IDEAS ON HOW THAT COULD BE SOLVED? NOT NOW, BUT WE HAVE` WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT, OBVIOUSLY, BUT IT HASN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE, A COUNTRY LEAVING A BIG BLOC LIKE THE EUROPEAN UNION, BUT THERE HAS TO BE CONSEQUENCE, SO WE CANNOT TAKE OVER THEIR QUOTAS. THEY WILL HAVE TO TAKE THEM, AND OBVIOUSLY AT WHAT TIME? ONE TIME, THERE WOULD BE SOME SORT OF TRADE AGREEMENT BETWEEN UK AND NEW ZEALAND, I GUESS. SO MIGHT BE ABLE TO COMPENSATE? THAT COULD BE COMPENSATED, BUT THERE MIGHT BE SOME TIME-LAPSE BETWEEN THAT, SO WE'LL SEE. SURE. NOW, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE STATE OF THE WORLD. I UNDERSTAND THE EU IS PUTTING IN RETALIATORY TARIFFS AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OVERNIGHT ON THINGS SUCH AS HARLEY DAVIDSONS, SPECIFICALLY TARGETED. IS THIS NOW THE START OF A FULLY FLEDGED TRADE WAR? THIS IS REBALANCING MEASURES, AS WE TAKE. WE TAKE THEM IN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH WHO. THEY ARE PROPORTIONATE. THEY ARE TARGETED. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE ENTITLED TO DO ACCORDING TO INTERNATIONAL TRADE LAWS, IN WHO. THOSE WILL NOT CAUSE THE TRADE WAR. I THINK THE TRADE WAR IS MORE IF WE SEE THE ESCALATION BETWEEN CHINA AND THE US RIGHT NOW. THAT IS REALLY WORRYING, BUT IT IS TRUE. WE ARE ENTERING A VERY... UNCERTAIN TIMES, AND CERTAINLY NOT GOOD FOR COUNTRIES SUCH AS NEW ZEALAND, BUT ALSO MOST OF THE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, WHO ARE VERY DEPENDANT ON TRADE AND SO INTERWEAVED IN THE DIFFERENT VALUE CHAINS, IN CHINA, IN THE US, IN EACH OTHER, SO IT'S BAD NEWS FOR THE WORLD. BUT WE'VE SEEN DONALD TRUMP WHENEVER` WHEN CHINA RETALIATED, HE IMMEDIATELY DOUBLE-DOWNED ON IT` HE STARTED IT. AND $200B, SO ARE YOU EXPECTING HIM TO COME BACK WITH MORE AGAINST THE EU, AND WHERE DOES THAT STOP? WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO SEE. I MEAN, WE HAVE BEEN` WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS LIMITED AND MEASURED, BECAUSE THEY HAVE PUT TARIFFS ON OUR STEEL AND ALUMINIUM EXPORTS, SAYING THAT THEY ARE A THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY, WHICH IS FRANKLY ABSURD. WE ARE FRIENDS AND ALLIES. WE ARE NOT A THREAT TO US SECURITY. AND THEY HAVE DONE SO IN CONTRADICTION TO INTERNATIONAL LAWS, IN CONTRADICTION TO WHO'S, SO YOU CANNOT JUST, YOU KNOW, TAKE THAT. YOU WILL HAVE TO DO SOMETHING BACK, AND WE DO THAT, BUT WE DO IT VERY LIMITED, AND SO DOES MANY OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD. WE DO IT THE SAME. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WE WILL SEE WHERE THIS LEADS. WE HAVE NO INTENTION OF SCALING UP, BUT IF YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING, YOU'RE ALSO SAYING THAT IT'S OK TO VIOLATE THE INTERNATIONAL RULES. WE'RE SEEING THIS RISE OF NATIONALISM, AMERICA FIRST, SOME POPULISM, BUT IN EUROPE AS WELL? AND IS THAT A CONCERN THAT SOME OF THE MEMBERS OF THE EUROPEAN UNION MAY BE LESS ENTHUSED ABOUT FREE TRADE, ABOUT GLOBALISATION? ARE YOU WORRIED THAT THAT MAY BECOME A PROBLEM? WELL, WE HAVE FORCES, AS YOU HAVE HERE, WHO ARE LESS POSITIVE TO GLOBALISATION IN GENERAL. FEARS, SOMETIMES LEGITIMATE FEARS ` PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT THEY'VE LOST OUT OF THE ADVANTAGES OF GLOBALISATION, SO OF COURSE, THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED ON A POLITICAL LEVEL. SOME POLITICAL FORCES ARE USING THAT. I THINK THAT IS MORE RELATED TO OTHER ISSUES THAN THIS. THE MEASURES THAT WE ARE TAKING AGAINST THE UNITED STATES ARE UNANIMOUSLY AGREED BY MEMBER STATES. IT'S NOT AN INVENTION OF THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION. SO THIS WE HAVE FULL BACKING. OF COURSE, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KEEP THAT LIMITED, BUT, YES, WE HAVE DIFFERENT POPULIST FORCES WITHIN THE EUROPEAN UNION, AND WE ALSO HAVE SOME LEGITIMATE CONCERNS THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS, OF COURSE, TO MAKE SURE THAT TRADING, GLOBALISATION WORKS FOR EVERYBODY. JUST ONE FINAL QUESTION, AND I'VE NOTICED THAT YOU TWEETED THIS AFTERNOON THAT MAYBE YOU CONSIDER NEW ZEALAND JOINING THE EUROVISION COMPETITION. NOW WE ARE COMING TO THE SERIOUS QUESTIONS HERE. I THINK YOU WOULD BE VERY WELCOME IF YOU WANT. THE AUSSIES JUST JOINED, SO WHY DON'T YOU? COULD WE ACTUALLY JOIN? I DON'T KNOW THE FORMAL PROCEDURES FOR THAT. THAT IS BEYOND MY PAY GRADE, BUT I AM HAPPY TO LOOK THAT UP FOR YOU IF THERE'S A TRUE INTEREST. MAYBE THAT WOULD HELP WITH THE RELATIONS, DO YOU THINK? POSSIBLY, BUT THEY ARE ALREADY VERY GOOD BETWEEN EU AND NEW ZEALAND, BUT IF THIS IS A KEY CONCERN, I'LL LOOK IT UP. CECILIA MALMSTROM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME ON Q+A. APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. WITH THE WORLD'S FOCUS ON THE MIGRANT SITUATION IN AMERICA AND, OF COURSE, REFUGEE DAY JUST PASSED, OUR OFFICE VISIT THIS WEEK IS TO A WELL-KNOWN FORMER REFUGEE, GREEN MP GOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN. IT'S ONLINE NOW, BUT HERE'S A SNIPPET. 'REFUGEES WELCOME.' YEAH, THAT'S BRAND NEW. IT WAS REFUGEE DAY YESTERDAY, AND AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL DID THIS CAMPAIGN OF LAYING OUT 25 DOORMATS IN AUCKLAND, WHERE THERE'S GOING TO BE 25 COMMUNITY PLACEMENTS OF REFUGEES FOR THE FIRST TIME. YOU DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE ON THE FLOOR? WELL, I HAD IT ON THE FLOOR, AND PEOPLE KEPT TELLING ME, 'WHAT IF PEOPLE START WIPING THEIR FEET ON IT? 'WILL IT BE DISRESPECTFUL?' I'M TRYING IT OUT. I ACTUALLY LIKE IT BETTER ON THE FLOOR, TO BE HONEST, COS IT'S BEING EXACTLY WHAT IT'S MEANT TO BE, WHICH IS A WELCOME MAT. AND YOU'VE GOT THE LAW SCHOOL RIGHT BEHIND YOU. WE'VE GOT THE LAW SCHOOL RIGHT THERE, YEAH. SO IT'S ALL KIND OF BRINGING TOGETHER ALL OF MY LIVES, (CHUCKLES) ESSENTIALLY. HEY, WHAT'S BEHIND ME? COS I CAN SEE CLOTHES IN HERE. YEAH, THAT'S` AM I ALLOWED TO OPEN THAT? CHUCKLES: YEAH, GO AHEAD. OH! THERE'S ONLY ONE` THAT'S MY BEAUTIFUL MAIDEN-SPEECH DRESS, ACTUALLY. YEAH, SO, THAT'S A SPECIAL DRESS TO ME. DO YOU NEED TO HANG THESE UP, OR`? OH, WELL, THAT'S NOT A NICE HISTORIC DESIGNER DRESS. THAT'S A $12 VINTAGE DRESS THAT I PICKED UP IN AN OP SHOP. WELL, WE LIKE RECYCLING. I LOVE RECYCLING. YOU CAN WATCH THE FULL EPISODE OF TE TARI, AS WELL AS ALL OUR OTHER INTERVIEWS ON OUR WEBSITE ` TVNZ.CO.NZ/SHOWS/QANDA THAT'S TVNZ.CO.NZ/SHOWS/QANDA LOTS TO TALK ABOUT WITH THE PANEL AFTER THE BREAK ` THOSE TRUMP TARIFFS. PLUS HIS BACKDOWN ON SEPARATING FAMILIES SEEKING ASYLUM AT THE BORDER. HE'S STILL DEFIANT, CLAIMING THE MEDIA STORIES ABOUT CHILDREN AND THEIR PARENTS ARE PHONY. THAT'S NEXT. IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT ONLY A WEEK AGO WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SUMMIT BETWEEN US PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP AND NORTH KOREA'S KIM JONG UN. THIS WEEK, MR TRUMP WAS FORCED TO BACKDOWN ON HIS HARD-LINE TREATMENT OF ASYLUM SEEKERS AFTER AN EXTRAORDINARY BACKLASH, BUT THE UNITED NATIONS SAYS TRUMP'S DECISION TO STOP SEPARATING FAMILIES MAY NOT BE ENOUGH. DETAINING CHILDREN IS A HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION AND THE UN SAYS THAT HIS POLICY COULD AMOUNT TO TORTURE UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW. SINCE THE ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY WAS ENACTED IN APRIL, MORE THAN 2300 CHILDREN HAVE BEEN DETAINED AWAY FROM THEIR PARENTS. THE VAST MAJORITY OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE COME FROM GUATEMALA, EL SALVADOR AND HONDURAS ` COUNTRIES WITH HIGH RATES OF VIOLENCE AND POVERTY. Let's bring in a panel. You've got experience as a human rights lawyer. What was your reaction to the story? This was extreme. It was. And there have been journalists and often what it takes is an iconic image. It is horrifying and extraordinary that anyone would agree to sign this into policy. Children and even infants were being separated from their families and detained separately from their parents. The backdown, a lot of people will be pleased at that, that these children will be reunited. They are in army camps? They will put families together but continue to detain them. So there is no legal basis for detailing children on the basis that the parents have sought asylum. So this is not a good outcome and only a slight improvement in terms of the conditions. We have to keep the pressure on. The other thing that makes this ethically and morally complex is that the US isn't alone in the policy. We have Australia pursuing similar policy wwhere children are detailed indefinitely , generally with their parents but sometimes when they have been separated and arrive separately from their parents, they are detained indefinitely. This is a chance for us to say that we have to take a stand as a country as a luxury is positioned for New Zealand, are we able to make that comment because we don't have the same problems. I look at the potential refugee challenges that New Zealand face and disaster preparedness iif you think of climate change and what would happen for the 2 � million and the Pacific in 10 years we need to start thinking about it, and we need to take a leadership role in the preparation of refugees. It doesn't affect us now because of geographic isolation, but we need to think about it for a Pacific nations. We have a capacity and we need to start warming up the public around that fact that we will have people coming to New Zealand in the next 15 years in a significant way. And that is OK. I think of the government came out tomorrow with an increase in the quota, that would be a problematic. They are talking about doubling at the 1500, but some are saying is a stretch for New Zealand. We have been low in terms of the quota for so long. That we will be paying catch up. And while our NGO sector is strong, but compared to Canada and the way that they are funded and resourced two supports refugees, we don't look like we are there yet. The Trump reaction and the way he politicised this issue as these are not Mexico immigrants. The only increase in numbers we have seen as they are coming from conflict situations. We are not seeing a massive increase in immigrants generally. They are not as high under previous governments. This is political rhetoric instead of immigration crisis. Europe is about to have a summit on this issue and they are not in agreement. Italy and France at each other's throats. We also see in Germany push back against angler Merkel's government and her open door policy. The issue with Syria and what's happening with Libya to push boats back. These are intensified by conflict situations, rather than economic migrants. That is where the emphasis needs to be. Let's bring up the vision of Milani Trump's jacket. It because such confusion. She was at a refugee centre. She criticised her husband. It was unclear about what they jacket meant. But that's a difficulty with US politics. The trolling and polariseration of media. It concerns me that the conversation must be about the children and families. And when it comes about anything, such as the jacket Or liberal snowflakes. We have to keep bringing it back to what we can relate to as something that we can relate to the deep wrongness. And either this was intentional or extraordinary unintentional destruction. I will assume it was an intentional destruction. And that is the depth that the political rhetoric has dropped. And anyone that is interested in this has to keep the conversation focused. What was interesting about this flareup was that it came through at an emotional level. And unlike tariffs, he back down fast. He back down fast. But the thing with a jacket as there will be people in New Zealand to say they don't care because they are focused on the issues at home. They have to be careful of what the sentiment is around the country such as things as Europe and China, because for a lot of people it is a long way away, and we have domestic issues, so we have to have a new ones to conversation. The biggest issue in Europe right now is the refugees. And yet what is our role in that? We have people saying they don't care. We all care at a human level and need a project that. The European commission is a bright spot that there is shared issues. The EU is really strong on all trade deals that incorporate the values that the EU holds down. And I would say is good for New Zealand because apart from the actual trade, their value system is progressive all looking to be more progressive. Investor state tribunal for example. But also for seeing sustainability and good Labourites in the protection of those losing and trade deals. The delegation this year were really explicit about this, and they realise that previous trade deals were good for business but tough for workers. We will see some different narratives being used in putting the steel together. Do you think those that oppose the Pacific deal would be more comfortable? For those issues pointed out they will. I think the government needs to be clear around biologics. That is a clear issue on the forefront about TPPA. And that is about the extent protection on the price of medicine and it is interesting to notice the different time now government takes on that compared to the Australian government. The Australian trade Minister said he wouldn't budge on that. Australia has a shorter term of protection for that intellectual property. We don't have much to give away to the EU. I can understand completely why the rhetoric is more towards working towards it, because he is looking towards as negotiation partners, but is also speaking to his base. And that was of concern to New Zealanders. It will be difficult to say the talking tourists partners or voting base? YOUR FEEDBACK AND THE FINAL WORD FROM OUR PANEL AFTER THE BREAK. AND WE LOOK BACK TO AN ASYLUM SEEKER CONTROVERSY IN OUR OWN BACKYARD. THE STANDOFF OVER THE FATE OF THE TAMPA REFUGEES. THAT'S NEXT. YOUR FEEDBACK NOW. MATTHEW TUKAKI TWEETED THAT 'BUSINESS IN NZ EXPECTED A NATIONAL WIN 'AND DID NOT PREPARE FOR A LABOUR/NZ FIRST GOVERNMENT, 'HENCE THE CONFIDENCE ISSUE. 'BUT THE OPERATING ENVIRONMENT IS SOUND AND NEW ZEALAND'S POTENTIAL 'IS GREAT, SO LET'S ALL GET TO WORK.' KIRSTEN OLIVER EMAILED, SAYING THAT GRANT ROBERTSON'S HEAD IS IN THE SAND AGAIN. BUSINESS CONFIDENCE FAST DECREASING, BUT HE CAN'T SEE THIS. BEFORE WE GO, A LOOK BACK TO 2001 AND THE STORY OF THE TAMPA REFUGEES, WHO WERE AT THE CENTRE OF A POLITICAL STORM IN OUR OWN PART OF THE WORLD. THESE MAINLY IRAQI AND AFGHAN ASYLUM SEEKERS HAD TRAVELLED FROM KABUL, ACROSS MANY DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, BEFORE ARRIVING IN JAKARTA, WHERE THEY LEFT BY BOAT FOR AUSTRALIA. THE BOAT BECAME STRICKEN, AND THEY WERE RESCUED BY THE NORWEGIAN FREIGHTER, THE MV TAMPA. BUT AUSTRALIA DIDN'T WANT THEM, AND THE STANDOFF LASTED EIGHT DAYS UNTIL NEW ZEALAND AND NAURU OFFERED THEM A HOME. SOMEONE HAD TO BREAK THE IMPASSE. WE'VE BROKEN THE IMPASSE. A SOLUTION FINALLY FOR MORE THAN 400 REFUGEES STRANDED ON BOARD THE TAMPA. AS THE WORLD WATCHES, NEW ZEALAND AND THE TINY PACIFIC NATION OF NAURU OFFER HELP. WE HAVE OFFERED TO ADMIT UP TO 150 OF THE ASYLUM SEEKERS FROM THE NORWEGIAN VESSEL THE TAMPA FOR PROCESSING AND EVENTUAL RESETTLEMENT AS PART OF THE ANNUAL REFUGEE QUOTA. ACROSS THE TASMAN, RELIEF AT THE BREAKTHROUGH. ALTHOUGH THEY WILL TAKE SOME REFUGEES ONCE SCREENED BY THE UN, AUSTRALIA STAYING FIRM THAT THEY WON'T STEP FOOT ON THEIR SOIL BEFORE THEN. IT IS, OF COURSE, APIECE WITH THE TRADITIONAL COOPERATION BETWEEN AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD BE REALISED. THAT I AM VERY GRATEFUL TO THE NEW ZEALAND GOVERNMENT. WHILE ACCEPTING NEW ZEALAND IS RIGHT TO TAKE PART IN A UN EFFORT, NATIONAL LEADER JENNY SHIPLEY BELIEVES THE MANGERE CENTRE IS INAPPROPRIATE FOR UNSCREENED ASYLUM SEEKERS. MANGERE IS AN OPEN CENTRE. WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER THESE PEOPLE ARE GENUINE REFUGEES, ECONOMIC REFUGEES OR CRIMINALS. THEY ARE QUEUE-JUMPING. WE'VE GOT PRIMARY AND SIGNIFICANT PROBLEMS OF OUR OWN. BUT AS NEW ZEALAND'S STAND ATTRACTS WORLD ATTENTION, HELEN CLARK IS USING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A CALL TO ACTION ON THE ISSUE OF AFGHANI REFUGEES. WE ARE UNDER NO ILLUSION THAT THERE IS A FAR GREATER INTERNATIONAL PROBLEM THAT NEEDS ACTION FROM THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY NOW. Some interesting characters theRe. Let's get to the panel for hits and misses. My miss is should research that shows that the second most favourite food source in the western countries as New Zealand, so internationally we know that there are people who want to buy New Zealand food. But it is not sufficiently labelled. Businesses have two years with the EU trade deals are sorted out and get more recognition for New Zealand products. Interesting research from Lincoln. My hurt is Jacinda Ardern having her baby and letting women that want to go into politics is that they don't have to give up the idea of being a mother. Anna signal's political parties that they should be selecting young woman for safe positions because they can do both. My it is to pay Equity. My missus around the nurses union. I think it will be a terrible time in the next two weeks. The crux of the issue is that no nurse in New Zealand does it for the money. But we have eroded the trust between the nurses Hospital and government. I am concerned that the nurses union is trying to fix everything, 20 years of problems in one go. It is clear there is no more money and I am worried about what we will have after a strike as further erosion. Do you think there will be a strike? There is a group of people that want it. And I am concerned if that happens what that will do over the next five years. How does that EHB who is trying to improve working culture and tackle staffing issues do that when there is division. I hope they can resolve it. My hat is Andrew little. He took some hits on the failure of the repeal of three strikes law. But he is expressed in clear terms the moral integrity behind the impetus for the repeal. He took a clear position on the harmful effects on sensible sentencing and the harm that the rhetoric has been doing for evidence-based policies. I really think Andrew little signals he may have made a political misstep but he showed moral integrity to not drop the topic. My miss Winston Peters failure to make a clear statement of condemnation in the US. MARAE IS NEXT. REMEMBER Q+A REPEATS AT 11:30 TONIGHT. THANKS FOR WATCHING AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. I'LL BE BACK AT 11 O'CLOCK THIS MORNING, WHEN THERE WILL BE A SHORT PRESS CONFERENCE AT AUCKLAND HOSPITAL. THE PRIME MINISTER JACINDA ARDERN WILL BE HEADING HOME WITH HER BABY AND PARTNER. DO JOIN ME THEN. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS, THAT'S Q+A. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT 9. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2018