Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023 - Tonight, the prominent Kiwi artist battling to get this mural removed. - Absolutely shocked. I couldn't believe it. - And car loans. What you need to know so you don't end up here. - So this is a thing turns my whole car off when I miss a payment, and then I'm stuck. - Plus, avoiding the fish hooks of online shopping ` how to get what you want, for the right price. But it does come with it's own set of risks. - Kia ora koutou katoa, and welcome, friends, to Fair Go. Now, for more than two years, Ashburton's tallest building has been adorned by a mural sporting all the trademark features of Kiwi artist, Hayley King, commonly known as Flox. - Yes, but Hayley says it's not her work ` it's a low-quality replica of what she'd have delivered. Kaitlin has the story. - KAITLIN: Artworks like these don't just come out of a can. - From the early 2000s right through till now ` that's how long I've been refining the style. - So you'll know Flox's work when you see it. - It is adorned a lot with birds and flowers. - Hard to copy. - It has a certain aesthetic which is centred around that sort of that stencil look. - So how did these birds end up landing here in Ashburton? - People think it's my work, unfortunately, but it's not my work. - It started off as hers ` the process beginning like any other. - I get asked to do commissions every day. (CHUCKLES) - Hayley's better known as Flox... - Short for flocks of birds. - ...and often teams up with other artists like Ross. Especially big projects like the one she was asked to do in Ashburton by the company RM Designs in 2020. - They were after two artworks to sit on two facades of a new build. - The tallest building in town. RM Designs was working on behalf of the Murney family, who own the building. As with any artwork, the Auckland artists were given a brief and put their heads together, going back and forth with RM Designs. - Ultimately producing what` we'd call it a concept. - For that they charge $1,500. - And should that image be liked by all parties, then we proceed beyond there. $1,500 gets you to that point of us presenting you an image to talk about. - These images ` and at that stage in the process, ones Ross and Haley say they still own. - There's no transfer of ownership, there's no licensing permission, there's no rights of reproduction. - That's an important detail we'll be coming back to. The concept was given the tick by the Murneys but there were still questions around how to execute it. - Initially we were in conversation about going down physically and creating a hand-painted mural. - But doing it on a four-storey building was turning into a logistical nightmare and equipment was hard to come by. So they went back to our RM Designs with a plan B. - And that was to create a really nice vector high-res file. - Everyone knows you pinch an image of Google images and print it out, it's all fuzzy and rough. The job is to create a file that doesn't become fuzzy and rough. - We would be doing that in a time consuming manner and recreating every single separate component correctly. - All up ` at a cost around $15,000 ` half the price of the original quote to do a hand painted job. - They weren't interested in that; they thought that that was a bit of a rough deal. Seeing as it was just a file. They didn't understand that it was still an artwork at that point. - RM Designs decided to simply pay the $1,500 concept fee, and that was the end of that... for 10 months anyway. When one day, Hayley heard from a fan. - She walked in and she said to me, 'I love your piece in Ashburton'. And I said, 'Oh, I don't` I don't think I have a piece in Ashburton. What do you mean?' And she said, 'Oh, no, it's definitely yours. It's definitely yours.' My mind went, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. - Then she saw photos. - I was, yeah, absolutely shocked. I couldn't believe it. - They asked RM Designs to explain. Its owner, Bernie O'Fagan, told them the low-res concept was sent on to a graphic artist and alterations were made. This is the Flox concept design. This is the altered version. - Just looking at around the eye here and how these little bits here overlapping and they're all scratchy and they're all different shapes and sizes. - How did they look to you? - Oh, they look` they look terrible. I would never let them go out like that. - If she had, this is how the bird's faces would have looked in the end. By the time the murals were up, the building owners had spent more than $150,000 on them. The artists were paid 1% of that. - I mean, if you were to stand in Ashburton and look up and look at the side of that building and think that artists got paid $750 each, you tell me if you think that's a good deal. - The issue going back and forth between lawyers before the pair say they gave up. They don't want money, they want it down. - I don't think I wanna see it. And it's yeah, I don't want to go there. - So they went to Fair Go and we went back to RM Designs, with Bernie telling us he'd been put in a difficult position. - I was working to a deadline and I thought I was able to use and change the basic concept. It was the first time I'd ever commissioned a mural like this, and I think I may have been a little naive going into it all ` or you can chalk it up to the stress of COVID lockdowns ` but I clearly misunderstood how the concept was able to be used. - Do you think you were on the same page about that? - Well, I thought we were. - 100%. - The artists say they stress this and emails when discussing the concept with Bernie. - Bernie also gave them this assurance early on. - So what did Bernie mean by that? - Bernie told us the company did let the artists know about the mural... in an Instagram post. But the hashtag #Flox can be used by anyone, like this woman offering gardening lessons in Sweden. When it comes to artists rights under copyright law, they're protected automatically. But there are exceptions. - The commissioning rule applies to certain works such as paintings, drawings. And what it says is if I commission you to create a work, and I agree to pay for that, then I'm the copyright owner. - Lawyer Earl Gray specialises in disputes of intellectual property. In this case, it's not entirely clear whether the rule applies, because the terms of an agreement weren't set out at the start. - It's possible that the parties were just talking past each other, and so when RM Design said that they're paying $1500 for the concept, they believed that that meant that they were getting the right to then reproduce it on the wall, and any further engagement with Hayley and Ross would be paying them for actually doing it. - Earl also says Hayley might be able to argue her moral rights have been breached. - People know this is a Flox creation and so they'll think, 'Oh, Hayley's done a cheap job there,' or something similar and that would then be prejudicial to her reputation. - Speaking of recognition, we dug out this feature on the Murney Main building in the local rag. Twice it refers to a mural being painted by New Zealand artist Flox. - See, they claim that it's me, but they didn't tell me, which is really weird. - Bernie says that info didn't come from him. And what we found out next came as a surprise to us too. - Ooh, so no resolution yet between Hayley, Ross and Bernie ` where to next? - Well Kaitlin had the answer to that ` after contact with the owners of the Murney building, things started to happen. - KAITLIN: While these fantails flapped about in Ashburton, the family who paid for them thought they were made by Flox. The Murney's, who are big fans of the artist, only found out there was a problem after Fair Go got involved. - We wanted an uplifting piece that our whole community could enjoy. We engaged RM Designs to use their expertise to manage this process, including contracts. We were not involved in any of the negotiations with Flox. Recently learning of the dispute, we immediately reached out to Hayley and Ross to discuss their concerns. - Which is why we headed back here, to Flox's shop. So tell us what happened since we last spoke. - So, Caitlin, we have heard from the Murney family. They are working with us to hopefully ` fingers crossed ` to replace the mural with a beautiful high resolution artwork from Ross and I. - A real Flox. - That would be like, yeah, the best outcome possible for us. - If all goes well, as a goodwill gesture, the artists have offered to reproduce their work as a series of prints for the family to hang in their offices and homes for free. They're now working directly with the Murneys rather than through RM Designs. Its owner, Bernie O'Fagan, says he'd still like to find a way to resolve things with the artists. - I'm determined to learn from and address this mistake. - Lessons learned on all sides. - Having ended up here, it's time to revisit terms of trade, contracts and service agreements and all of that. - So there's no doubt what their work is truly worth. - Oh, it just makes me feel so relieved, I think, to know that we're gonna get our artwork up there. The artwork that was destined to be there in the first place. - Interesting, interesting case, especially with digital and AI in the future this is going to be a big issue going forward. I hate the term 'going forward' but I just said it, in the future. Great result, Kaitlin ` fingers crossed we're gonna see Flox's work up there, on the building in Ashburton, in the near future. - Absolutely. E haere ake nei, coming up ` what you really need to know before you sign up for that car loan. - It was just a quick 'Hi, bye, sign here and then go.' - And, online shopping ` how to make sure you get what you ordered. - Do some research on the seller and check out product reviews. Are we prepared for when a disaster strikes? It doesn't take much but we do need a plan. Like, who will pick us up from school if Mum or Dad can't? Uncle? (HIP-HOP MUSIC) Have your own prep talk so you and your whanau know what to do in a disaster. - Nau mai, hoki mai, welcome back. - The more Fair Go dug into our next story, the more we heard about people in a very similar situation. - Yes. Problem is, we're talking about getting into debt, and many people are just too embarrassed to talk about it. One did though, and her story raises important questions about how people are signed up for loans, and then what happens when they can't pay. - ALISTAR: Looking for a car? If money's tight, a loan is a common option. That was Sarah's solution. - We needed a bigger car. - She's asked us not to use her real name. - For me, it was like your dignity is on the line, eh? - Before signing up for a loan, you want to make sure you can make those repayments. But here's the thing ` Sarah's paying for a loan her budget advisors say she shouldn't have been approved for her in the first place. - It is quite scary because, you know, that's a never-ending debt that's probably not gonna go away. - And money wasn't the only issue ` sometimes her car wouldn't start. - Oh, damn. Not again. - This happens a lot. - Yeah, hi. Look, I'm stranded at the car park right now, and I really need to go and get my kids. - But it's not your usual car troubles; this device, called an immobiliser, is responsible. It's activated when she misses consecutive loan payments. - You have to make sacrifices, especially with five kids and, you know, earning minimum wage. It's` it's a struggle. - You can understand ` for Sarah, times are tough, but her and her whanau still needed a bigger car. - The car that I had was small and we couldn't fit in. - She bought one from a car dealer ` Auto Mates Cars in Manurewa. It already had the immobiliser installed. Her finance company, Go Car Finance, uses immobilisers in most of their cars, to stop them from starting if clients missed payments or if the car is stolen. In some cases, this left Sarah stranded. - The worst one was when my car was being immobilised, my daughter's at kindy, I'm on the phone in our work car park, trying to get through to somebody to enable the car. - Sarah says in one case, she was on hold for three hours. She had to get her father to pick her up. - I had to leave my car in the car park, and in Papakura, it's not a place to leave your car abandoned. - According to Sarah's contract, to get the car started, the overdue amount must be paid or a payment plan with Go Car must be sorted. For safety reasons, Go Car says they only disable a car when the engine is off and there is an emergency override option available via text that starts the car straight away. Sarah has six emergency overrides that last three hours each. - You have to enable the car to get to one place, and then they'll turn it off, and then ring them again to enable it to go to another place. - But budget advisors Christians Against Poverty, or CAP, think immobilisers shouldn't be used at all in this way. - Now, not only is that incredibly punitive, it's dangerous as well. One of our clients was stuck after dark in a remote location, with two toddlers, without cell phone reception, and she had to abandon her car and walk for miles until she could get cell phone reception. - Sarah's had her car immobilised at least ten times and has used all her overrides. If finance is an issue, you can see why it's easy to use all of them up. Go Car tells Fair Go, whenever Sarah would get in touch over the phone for a restart, the device was disabled straight away. In terms of trying to get in touch with Go Car ` - CAP are calling on the government to ban them from being used for debt collection. - This causes families to repay their car loan at any expense, even if that means that their kids go without food that week. Rather than immobilising their vehicle just to extract payment from them at any cost, we should be using that as an opportunity to engage with customers, and a responsible lender would ask the questions, what else is going on in a client's life that we might be able to help them with? - Fair Go asked the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment if it was looking to ban immobilisers, and it tells Fair Go ` - Paul Verhoeven, Go Car CEO, says Go Car does manage the devices ethically ` - Go Car says in each case Sarah's car was immobilised, they sent a series of text and the device made a warning noise in the week leading up to the car being stopped. OK, if immobilisers are here to stay, then it would pay to read over your loan paperwork. When it comes to contracts, how many of us pay attention to the details? - Usually I just skim through. - There's just too much paperwork, it's too much read. - Probably my own laziness of not being bothered to read it all. - Understanding a contract thoroughly is key. Sarah says she felt rushed to sign the paperwork and admits she didn't read through the contract before signing, including information about the immobiliser. - There was no explanation of what I was signing. I did ask him, 'Is there anything else I need to know or do?' And he said, 'No, everything's sorted.' Obviously, later on, you sort of look back and you're like, 'Oh, (LAUGHS) I should have thought twice.' - Auto Mates says an authorised person trained by the finance company, goes through the documents with the buyer. - But Sarah is adamant nothing was explained properly. - It was just a quick 'Hi, bye. Sign here and then go,' - Go Car says its team does a follow-up call with clients to talk through contractual obligations. But in Sarah's case, this didn't happen. - We acknowledge that she did not receive this welcome call. However, she was provided with information on her financial and contractual obligations at the time of taking out the loan through Automates. The CCCFA states the lender must explain the contract so you understand it, check whether you can afford it, and if the insurance is suitable for you. The lender must also provide a disclosure statement showing all the important figures and totals, a copy of your contract and of any terms of insurance and extended warranties. Another key thing for CAP is whether a proper affordability assessment was done before Sarah signed on. The total cost of the car was $18,625. That's including the price of the car ` $15,000 ` fees and insurance. Add on 25.95% per annum interest over a four year term ` that's almost $10,000. Paying $143 a week, Sarah owes more than $28,000, almost double the purchase price of the car. - That is quite scary because, you know, that's a never-ending debt, that's probably not gonna go away. - Go Car tells Fair Go ` - But in Sarah's case, Go Car's checks weren't up to scratch. That's according to the Financial Services Ombudsman ` a dispute resolution service. CAP put in a complaint, and the Ombudsman's preliminary decision said ` - It also ruled that Go Car should credit all interest and fees charged to Sarah's loan account and to pay compensation for any stress or inconvenience caused ` just totalling over $8,800. Awesome news for Sarah, but Go Car does have a chance to make further submissions before a final ruling is made. Sarah will have to repay the balance of the actual cost of the car, but at least now she's getting the financial help she needs from CAP and she has some words of wisdom for others. - Make sure that we take a step back and read any documents put in front of us, but also just seeking a second eye before signing anything. I think I'm more prepared with a million questions now than I am to sort of just accept whatever people say and trust people firsthand. - Hey, there is so much to think about if you are taking out a car loan. The best advice we can give you is just take your time, and know as best as you can what you're getting into. - She's right. E haere ake nei, coming up ` Pippa's got tips for getting the best results from your online shopping. - You can also do a reverse image search on a product. (DOG BARKS) VOICE-OVER: Imagine if you could start thriving. AIA Vitality is a science-backed health and well-being program that gives you the guidance, tools and rewards you need to thrive. So get AIA Vitality and start thriving. - Hoki mai ano, and welcome back, friends. - Online shopping ` man, I love it, but I've made some mistakes online, and maybe some of you. If we look at the hundreds of emails we get in Fair Go's inbox every week, they all tell the same sad story, where things don't always go smoothly when you press the old 'buy now'. - Well that's right. Today we're kicking off a new Buyer Beware segment and first up I take a look at possible fishhooks when we're choosing products online. Drop-shipping might make you think of this, but actually it's a type of online business, where the person you're buying from doesn't hold any stock, so your order is packed and sent by a third party, often in a different part of the world. You'll see a lot of drop-shipped products advertised on social media, although the seller won't always make that clear. Now, there's nothing illegal about drop-shipping, but it does come with its own set of risks ` there's less quality control, products may take a long time to arrive, and be different from what you thought you ordered. That's because the person you ordered from isn't the person producing or sending the product, and putting it right can be really tricky. Often both the seller and the supplier are overseas. So if you're buying online, know what you're getting into ` do some research on the seller and check out product reviews; pay extra attention to shipping times. So you can also do a reverse image search on a product. So take this bag, for example, I'm just going to right click on that and I'm going to search the web for the image. What I get is a whole raft of websites coming up that are selling that bag. So what this means, A, is that it's likely that this product is drop-shipped and B, I can hunt around for the best price. - Pippa Wetzell, you're very handy on the old computer, did you get the hand bag? - I did not but the bag in the end. Hey, little bit of a consumer update for you on a product you may or may not require ` there is a shortage, according to two semi-unreliable teenage girls in my household, a shortage of feather boas at the moment, because of the Harry Styles concert tomorrow night. So if you are in the market for a feather boa in the next 24 hours, you might be in trouble. Sorry about that. - Right, that is it from us, good update though on the feather boa market. And if you caught part of the show, you can catch all of it, online on the old interweb on TVNZ+. - That's right, our programme, of course, is all about your consumer aches and pains, so do get in touch. We're on Facebook, Instagram, you can go to our webpage ` tvnz.co.nz. Email us ` fairgo@tvnnz.co.nz Or write to us ` PO BOX 3819, Auckland 1140 - Thank you for watching and a big shout-out to all our Ashburton viewers, good luck with the mural. Until next week... - BOTH: Po marie.