(CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Hello, Kiwis. I'm Paddy Gower and I have got issues. On this show, we investigate issues big and small that are important to all of us. Tonight, Andrew Gourdie joins me to investigate ` is rugby under threat as our national sport as parents, kids and fans fall out of love with the game? And for best friend Tina, Karen O'Leary investigates the awkward question ` do you have to chat to your hairdresser? www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023 (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) Tonight, my issue is with rugby ` have we fallen out of love with rugby? Because if kids are the future, then something is wrong. I can reveal a devastating drop in playing numbers over the last five years. In 2018, rugby was on a high ` there were 88,000 under-12s, but last year, that crashed to just over 74,000 ` a massive 14,000 players gone from the game. 14,000 ` gone. Boys ` quitting, nearly 11,000 of them gone. Girls ` dropping out. Over 3000 gone. My question is this ` why are they leaving? What's going wrong? Now, I love rugby, but even I am questioning if that love is as deep as before. And around the country, people say the same. They are having trouble filling teams, their own interest is waning. I'm calling this rugby's moment of truth, because at the end of the day, rugby is our national game. It's given us so much, it's given so much to our national identity, and we would really feel it without the All Blacks and Black Ferns up near the top of the world. But we'd really, really feel it in our communities if our rugby clubs start shutting down. New Zealand would change. And that's why this is an issue for all of us. Tonight, I'm joined by Newshub sports journalist Andrew Gourdie, and as always, by our community investigator, Karen O'Leary, and our news deskers ` Eli Matthewson and Courtney Dawson. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - You know, Paddy, I'm hearing you loud and clear. This is a huge issue and I'm willing to to solve it. Yeah, I'll join the All Blacks. I'll do it. (LAUGHTER) Point me to the locker room, baby. - That would actually create issues for Ian Foster. So, Gourdie, what's happening at the grassroots of the game? - Yeah, good question, mate. And perhaps not enough, because that's a real concern. Those rugby numbers we just saw, because rugby's player base is at its widest at that junior level. So obviously we wanted to find out more about what's going on, so we went to the club that's produced more All Blacks than any other club in New Zealand to talk to someone who's produced two of her own. (WHISTLE TRILLS) - Big tackle, Eli. Nice! Good boy. - We're here at Cox's Bay Reserve in Auckland, where Ponsonby Rugby Club's junior teams are training ahead of their games on the weekend, and I'm here to meet Sandra Ioane. Now, Sandra's been running the junior club here for years. She played for the Black Ferns, her husband played for Auckland and Samoa, and her two sons ` you might have heard of them ` Rieko and Akira Ioane, have come right through the system to play for the All Blacks. You would struggle to find someone with a better understanding of the game at all levels in New Zealand than her. - Yeah. Thanks, bud. - Catch ya. - OK, bye. So we've got 45 junior teams. - Yeah. - So that equates to about 600 kids. - Yeah. - Yeah. We're way down on our numbers. We're about 250, 280 kids down this year. - This year alone? - This year alone, so... - Wow. Sandra says they're losing kids to other sports, especially basketball and football. But she says there's one other big reason why fewer kids are staying in the game. - I think once they get to that tackle age group, under-8s, yeah, there's a big drop-off there. - No, no. No, he's out. He's out. - What are parents saying to you? - A lot of parents don't want their child to be tackling. - Yeah. - You know, it's all this` and because there's so much information at the moment about concussion, and as a parent, I can understand ` you get a bit concerned. - Straight in hard. Straight in hard, Jim. Straight in hard, Jim! - You obviously played for the Black Ferns and we had a wonderful year for the Black Ferns last year. - Yes. - A great moment for women's rugby here in New Zealand. - Yes. - Have you seen the impact of that yet? How many girls teams have you got here at Ponsonby? - I'll be honest ` we're struggling to field a 23 on a Saturday. - Wow. - We have had, for a number of years, a development side, or 10-a-side women. Just the other day, we just had to contact the ARU and tell them that we're going to pull the plug on that. We just can't get the numbers. - Are you sensing that there is going to be at least a rise in girls playing rugby here at Ponsonby? - No. - The uncertainty doesn't end there. With the drop in player numbers, even a great club like Ponsonby is growing increasingly concerned about its future. - I don't know how many times it's been bought up in the committee about ` is Ponsonby Rugby still going to be around? You know, like, we've been here since 1874. Are we still going to be around in five, 10 years time? We don't know. - And if a club like Ponsonby needs help... - Well, that's right. A lot of clubs out there must be struggling. - How do you think New Zealanders feel about rugby? - Ooh... - Do we love it as much as we used to? - The whole aura of the All Blacks, or rugby in general ` I think that's waning a bit. Look, you go into schools, and you see so many kids wearing NL` NRL shorts, and, you know, you walk around the malls, and everyone's got some sort of apparel of NRL. - There's something happening there, isn't there? - Yeah, there's something` - Those competitions are engaging with that level of fan. - Yeah. - Why aren't they wearing Blues shirts? - Blues shirts, or... When you go to a Blues game, everybody should be in the Blues outfit, but they're not. So... I don't know. I haven't got` that's a $64,000 question, isn't it? So I haven't got the answer. I wish I could. But then I wouldn't be working for Ponsonby ` I'd be working for the NZR. (LAUGHTER) (APPLAUSE) - Well, I mean, Gourdie and Paddy, you know, that is really concerning. But I mean, I've` the other issue I've got with rugby, obviously, is the big issue that Ardie Savea did score that try. (LAUGHTER) He did. So are you gonna` are you gonna fix that? - It's a fair point, but to be honest, that's Paddy's issue. He's a Hurricanes fan, I'm a Crusaders fan. I don't really care, to be honest with you, whether he scored the try or not. But look ` great stuff from Sandra. She is a great New Zealander. Really tells it like it is. I've got to say, I was absolutely stunned by a couple of the points she raised there. Just a couple of things ` she obviously raised the drop-off from Rippa Rugby to tackle rugby, and kids wearing that` those NBA singlets and the NRL apparel around the malls ` that's just something we're going to take a look at a little bit later on as well. - Yeah, and Karen, you've been out doing the mahi as well. What have you been up to? - Well, look, you know, Paddy, I can tell by looking at you, you're the kind of guy that likes a good haircut. You know, you're looking pretty sharp. - Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for noticing. - Yeah. And you also seem to me like the kind of person that enjoys a bit of a chat, you know? So I'm pretty sure that when you go and get your hair cut, having that small talk with a hairdresser is not an issue for you. But obviously that's not the case for everyone. So I went and talked to my best friend Tina. This week I heard from someone with an issue that really cut me deep. Her name is Tina and she's my new best friend. Tina, how are you? She's not actually here, and Tina's not her real name. She gets social anxiety, so she didn't really want to be on camera. So I've got one of my close personal friends to read everything out. - Hi, Karen. My issue is talking to hairdressers. I have social anxiety and find getting my haircut to be very stressful. The thought of having to make small talk fills me with dread. (DRAMATIC STING) Because of this, I only get my hair cut once a year by a family member who lives in a different city. Hope you can help. Tina. - That was a really good job. I actually` I believed you were Tina. Speaking of the issue, it kind of looks like maybe you haven't been to the hairdresser for a while. - I have been to a hairdresser, and they actually` - Did that? (DRAMATIC STING) I want to get to the short back and sides of this issue, so I'm on Karangahape Road to chat some people about chatting. How do you feel about the small talk that you have to make at the hairdressers? - I hate it. I hate it. Leave me alone, please. (GIGGLES) - Honestly, I love a good yarn, so I'm down for everything. - Oh God, it's painful. - Initially, slightly awkward, but it sort of works into a bit of confidence. - What kind of subjects would you like to talk about with your hairdresser - Politics. Vote for the Greens! Whoo! - You can't say that on this. - Holidays, like, 'Oh, what did you do in Easter?' None of your business. - If, say, for some reason you weren't actually feeling like a chat, how would you express that to your hairdresser? - I pretend I don't speak the language. I just point at the photo and be like, 'This one. This one.' - Anything else you want to add? Cat's got his tongue. I'm now about to do something that a lot of people, it seems, are actually quite afraid to do ` I'm going to step foot into a hairdressers. I'm going to have to make conversation, make small talk, all in the name of a bit of grooming. Obviously, first things first ` you're a hairdresser ` a very accomplished one. I just was wondering what you think of my haircut. - Oh, it's not too shabby. Not too shabby at all. - Not too shabby. What would you say is one of the favourite parts of your job as a hairdresser? - Building relationships with my clients. It's fun. It's like having a giant family, I guess. - Is it kind of part of your training? Do you have to learn how to do all of that chitter chatter? - We do go over some basic sort of rules of what to talk about. - What are the rules? - Don't talk about religion and politics, but I do. - Do you ever get people that just actually come in and straight up say, 'Look, I don't want to have to chat.' - I've probably experienced that maybe four or five times. - So say I'm coming in for a haircut and I just really don't feel like chatting. What's the best way for me to tell you that? - You can openly tell me that. - Maybe we could just do, like, a little role play. - A role play ` yeah, absolutely. - So I'll pretend that I'm coming in for a haircut. - (CHUCKLES) - OK, now I've walked in and I've sat down. Now you ` go. - Hi, Karen. How are you today? - I don't wanna talk to you. Nah, that was a bit harsh, eh? - (LAUGHS) (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Rude, rude, rude. And we said` you know, that's not the kaupapa of the show. We said we weren't going to be rude to people on this, Karen. - Yeah, look, I did` I reflected on that, and so I went` we had to go back to the` basically to the` to the cutting board, and come up with some better, more positive solutions, and that's what I've tried to do. - Oh, and I'm sure they're pretty cutting edge, so I look forward to seeing them. And coming up ` Karen's quest to help Tina leads to experts, legends and an exciting conclusion for everyone. And I put my body on the line to find out just how dangerous rugby is for our brains. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Nau mai, hoki mai. Now, coming up ` I investigate concussion in rugby by getting tackled really, really quite hard, actually. But first ` Eli and Courtney, my trusty news desk. Can you let me know what the vibe has been out there in Aotearoa this week? - Mm, we would love to, Paddy. It's time for New Zealand Has Issues. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - It's been a big week in positive, dry, optimistic Aotearoa, or as Christopher Luxon likes to call us ` - A very negative, wet, whiny, inward-looking country. (LAUGHTER) - I think Negative, Wet and Whiny were the dwarves cut from Snow White. - This week, the Greens have announced their first big election policy. - Ooh, and while they were quite coy about their intentions, something tells us there's going to be tax involved. - A capital gains tax, a wealth tax, stamp duty, an estate tax, an inheritance tax, some form of land tax, or some combination of all of the above. - Oh, no, James. The genie said you only get three wishes. - Actually, Eli, that's the closing karakia for the Green Party meeting. - Some people love the proposals and some people are the National Party. - The problem with a wealth tax is it ends up catching a lot of people who we don't want to catch. - But you know what? Not everyone is against the policy. - Vote for Green. Yes, I think so. - PADDY: Oh! - You gotta commend someone who can do a full musical scale in one short sentence. - Yeah, the guy who was sitting in a park during the day in a drum circle is definitely the swing vote the Greens need to convince. - There's been some positive news, though, from Auckland Council this week ` they finally got their budget through, but it wasn't easy. - We have actually passed a budget. It's more with relief rather than joy. - You know, if I wanted to know what joy feels like, I wouldn't be asking Wayne Brown. - The controversial sale of the airport shares has gone through, but not everyone in the council voted for it. - Counsellor Filipaina. - Cop out. - PADDY: Oh! - Other votes including 'Nah', 'All good', 'Yeah, nah', and... (BLOWS RASPBERRY) - It was a very long meeting actually, and there were some interesting discussion points. - How do you eat an elephant? You eat it bite by bite. - PADDY: Mm, OK. - I reckon I'd go trunk first, and then I slice the feet up like luncheon, and then I'd use the ears like pita bread to kind of seal up` - PADDY: Oh, Eli. Eli. - But then I preserve the tusks, because ivory poaching is disgusting. - Potluck dinners at Eli's are quite controversial. And it's also` there's also been something controversial happening at RNZ this week. An employee has been stood down after it was discovered that they had been inserting Russian propaganda into some of their stories. - PADDY: Whoa! - The employee responsible has been made to take leave. And look, we can't reveal their name, but we can reveal it rhymes with Messe Julligan. (LAUGHTER) - Oh man. It is incredibly unprofessional, and that would never happen here. And that has been New Zealand Has Issues. (APPLAUSE) - All right. Thank you so much, Eli and Courtney. Now back to rugby. Concussion ` it's the reason that parents don't want their kids playing any more, and New Zealand Rugby is trying to do something to address this. And I was invited back to my old club, Poneke, to try it out. (INTRIGUING MUSIC) (STUDS CLATTER) So, Janelle, what` What have we got here? - So what we've got are some instrumented mouth guards. So this is what they look like. Kind of looks like your standard mouth guard. We'll boil it for 20 seconds. But what's kind of cool about these ` they've actually got a bunch of cool sports tech in here. So similar to your watch or your phone that might have an accelerometer that tells us how fast you're running ` this one will actually tell us how fast your head is` head is moving during rugby. - Janelle is researching concussion in rugby, using these mouth guards to measure head knocks and whiplash. She's used them on 700 players from 28 teams, running from under-13s to premier level, and I'm her newest recruit. Treat me like any other athlete. - Close your lip over the front. How's that feeling? - Mm. - Can you talk OK? - I can talk OK. - Yeah. Can you say 'Hi, my name is'? - Hi, my name is Paddy. - Yeah, perfect. - So the data from here will go and you'll be able to see it there? - Yeah. So it's all connected kind of via Bluetooth wireless. So we can kind of be getting live impact readings of head acceleration events. - It's time to test this thing out... You're gonna have to put a hit on me, Reggie. - Yeah. ...with former Hurricane prop Reggie Goodes. Should I use one of these, do you think? - Turn it around. - Oh, yeah. I knew that. I knew that. (BOTH LAUGH) I knew that. Yeah. And I better chuck this on so we can get the data. (GRUNTS) Was that a warm-up? I'm pretty sure there was head acceleration there. (GROANS) Good tackle, Reggie. - Thank you. I missed it. - Reggie played for the 'Canes for six years, but after one too many head knocks, was forced to retire at the age of 26. So how many times were you concussed when you were playing? - On my professional record, I think it was about 13 or 14 times. - What were the symptoms after that? - Headaches, just don't feel yourself. But then you also get to a stage of, you know, are you ever going to feel yourself again? - Do you worry about what's coming in the future after all those head knocks? - I actually don't. Not that` You know? You don't know. Like, there's no point of me sitting here, day by day, for years and years, worrying about something that might not happen. - Time to find out if those tackles that any damage... to me. OK, so what did that` how` what did that` what does that sort of show me on there, if you just take me through that? - Yeah, you bet. So for every head acceleration event, you get, kind of, two numbers that come out of this. So the one is the linear acceleration. - Yes. - That's that green number. That's 11 g. - 11 g. - Yeah. - So how does that 11 g nudge from Reggie ` you know, what does that sort of compare with, do you think? - Yeah, I guess for kind of everyday activities, if you were on a rollercoaster, your stomach kind of drops. So that would be in the 5-10 g range. If you're jumping on a trampoline, you'd start to get above 10. - Reggie's tackle wasn't that big after all, according to this. - Correct. - Yeah. Sort of wanted to make it sound big, but the facts are ` Reggie's tackle was not that big. - Yeah. - This mouthguard research is already changing the game. - So I guess from some of the initial analysis, we've seen some differences in terms of tackle height and it really seems that that tackling at that waist are better outcomes for the tackler and the ball carrier. - So your data's already seen that this new rule of going below the sternum effectively is a good idea for concussion? - Yeah. - OK, and ultimately, do you think rugby is safe to play, in terms of concussion? - I think there are` there are risks in anything that we do. When we look at, kind of, our under-13s, and our Small Blacks, and the ACC data that we do have, the overall injury rate is quite low. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - OK, so Reggie actually tackled me four times there to do that. And that was` actually, I'll be honest, it was four times too many. And I hope` I hope I don't see Reggie around Wellington for a while. But these little doodackies ` they are quite impressive, that data you get. And you know, his tackle was 11 g, but in Super Rugby, the tackles are more up around 20 g, and some of them can be as high as as 40 g ` about one in every 100 tackles in Super Rugby can be like that, so about four times bigger than what Reggie was hitting me. But you know, these things, although they give that data, they don't stop you from getting concussed, or they don't tell us anything about those long-term effects, where the science just hasn't settled. - No, that's right. And I understand why parents are concerned, right? There's a lot being said about concussion at the moment. Look, my son plays rugby and I just think there's risks associated with everything we do, right. And I just think that playing rugby, the benefits that come with that, what you learn through playing a team sport, the values that come with that, just, for me, outweigh the risks, I suppose, of playing rugby and playing contact sport. - And can I just say ` great to see you at Poneke Rugby Club in Te Whanganui-a-Tara. My dad used to manage rugby teams then, and I distinctly remember the car stinking of liniment for about four years. - PADDY LAUGHS: Yeah. It would have been longer than that. All right. Now there's plenty of things to have issues with out there, but I don't want to be too whiny, because every week, there is one ray of sunshine ` one thing that I have no issues with. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) Normally I'd have absolutely massive issues with a meddling local council getting in the way of progress. I feel a kind of rage inside me at that kind of stuff. But along comes South Taranaki District Council, home to the metropolis of Patea, and I have got no issues with them at all. No issues. And I'll tell you why ` because the council has decided to make a stand against seabed mining off the coast of Taranaki. Seabed mining is like a gigantic vacuum cleaner that literally sucks up 20m off the surface of the seabed, and opponents say every living thing in that sand is killed, creating a dead zone. And this Aussie-owned outfit, Trans-Tasman Resources, wants to suck up 50 million tonnes of the seabed each year for 35 years off the coast of Patea. Now the council has been neutral on this for years, but has finally got off the goddamn fence and calls it, in its own words, 'environmental vandalism'. I agree. I fear for the blue cod breeding grounds, the blue penguins, the blue whales, and the critically endangered Maui's dolphin. I also fear for Taranaki's world-class surf breaks, our world-class fishing, world-class kaimoana, and our world-class black sand beaches. These taonga are for all of us, and should not be put at risk under any circumstance, especially for profits to go offshore. Now, I am no greenie, never will be, and I'm sure neither is South Taranaki Mayor Phil Nixon. But I am with local iwi Ngati Ruanui, the Maori Party, and the tens of thousands of others fighting against this. No seabed mining. Trans-Tasman resources must be kept out of Taranaki and Aotearoa New Zealand. So no issues with the South Taranaki District Council on this one. In fact, I actually want the council to wrap these buggers up in red tape. I want them to mummify the seabed miners with red tape like Tutankhamen. And if any other councils around the country have got any red tape that's spare, and I'm sure they do, bring it to South Taranaki and help them out. No issues with that too. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) All right. Coming up ` Gourdie looks for love at a game and takes the tough questions to the very top. And Karen asked an expert, 'Is it actually OK not to talk to your hairdresser?' (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Welcome back, Kiwis. Now, coming up ` we are asking what's wrong with Super Rugby right now, but first, Karen, are you going to get a result for your mate Tina, who doesn't like talking when she gets a haircut? - Well, I guess the thing is, through my investigation, I found out this is not just a problem for Tina, so I needed to find more information. And so I went to talk to a psychologist who has very luxurious hair, to see if I could come up with some good solutions. (REGAL ORCHESTRAL MUSIC) Lovely to see you. Thank you very much. Have a seat. It's your house, actually. You tell me to have a seat, really. (CHUCKLES) Yeah. We've been doing a thing about social anxiety. - Mm-hm. - Can you tell me a bit about what that actually is? - Social anxiety is, at the core, a fear or worry about how we're being perceived by others, and particularly, I guess, a fear that we're going to be negatively evaluated or negatively judged by someone else. So I need to get out, right? - You need to get` You need to go now? You need to get out? - No. (LAUGHS) Like, I need to get out of this social situation. - This one? - Well, there's a bit of anxiety that's coming up. - We're talking more specifically about people that go to the hairdresser. - Yeah. - And feel that` that pressure to engage in small talk. They potentially don't want to, they don't know how to say I don't want to. It puts them in a really difficult position. - I guess, if we think about the hairdresser situation, there's just one on one person usually. You've got sometimes hours to talk to this person. You're kind of trapped in, right. - You're trapped in. - You've got that black cape. - With the cape. You've got` yes. - Yeah. Around you, right. - You're basically tied to the chair. - Yeah. Yes. - Um, what would your advice be? - When we're feeling anxious in social situations, we tend to put our attention on ourself` - Right. - ...and become really focused on what we're doing, how we're feeling. So what's really helpful is trying to put that attention into what's going on in the moment with the other person. Because that way, when we're actually listening more actively, it really helps with that small talk process. And so... - Sorry. What did you just say? (CURIOUS MUSIC) So many people out there are anxious, so I headed back to hairdresser Sean with some solutions. So, Sean, I've been away, I've had a bit of a think, and I've come up with a number of options in terms of how your clients could potentially tell you that they don't wanna talk. Just wondering if I could run them past you and see what you think. - Of course. Of course. - OK. So, option one. I've got this T-shirt made. See that? - READS: 'Don't talk to me. Just cut the hair, please.' (CHUCKLES) - Are you looking at my chest? - Sorry. - So the next one, I thought if you maybe came in to the hairdresser with some of this. Simply a matter of` Like, you just get a bit of that. And then you just, like` If you just` Yep. And then I just do that. Do you think that could work? It's not very nice for you. I feel like it's not very appropriate. - Ow! - Oh. Sorry. Sorry. - (CHUCKLES) - What say people came in, like, with one of these confetti things? Basically, if it's blue, it means 'I don't wanna talk'. And if it's pink, it means 'I'm up for a good chat'. I don't really know how these things work, but` Oh, maybe you just twist it. (BOOM!) Aargh! So... I mean, I don't know. - I think we need to start the conversation to not have a conversation. - What do you mean? Like, so you offer? - We offer to not talk. - So you can go online, book your haircut, and there's a little tick box that says` - Absolutely. - ...'don't talk to me'. - Don't talk to me. - Or 'I'd rather have a quiet time'. - Absolutely. - So, customers at Colleen can now choose a chat-free option when they book in their haircut. It's great news, and I think everyone at the salon was glad I came to visit. - What a mess. (CHEERING) - You've done it. You've done it. You've solved it already. You are` You're too good for this show almost. - Well, hang on. Hang on. Let's calm down a bit, Paddy, cos I'm not quite satisfied. Obviously, that's great if you live in Auckland, but what about the rest of the country? I needed to go bigger. - The whole world? Solve it for the whole world? - I was thinking more just New Zealand. - Yeah, that's fair enough. Now, back to the problems with rugby right now. And the last thing I want to do is be wet, negative, whiny and inward-looking and complain about rugby so much that I sound like my dad, so I've set myself a challenge. I'm going to make you love rugby again in under 60 seconds. It's time to go behind the issue. (APPLAUSE) Right-oh. William Webb Ellis first picked up the ball and ran with it. And how good was that? The code of sport called Rugby Union began. Boom! A new game came to New Zealand, and it meant unity. The All Blacks started with the Originals. Then there were these fellas ` the Invincibles. They were things like desert games played by soldiers in WWII, and of course, the mighty Ranfurly Shield. There was division, though ` the Springbok tour in 1981. But that meant redemption with the 1987 Rugby World Cup. And talking about momentous ` Paddy Gower starts playing, and coach brother William Harnett said I was never far from the ball, which means I never actually touched it. (LAUGHTER) Now, passion, though. I had plenty of passion. I would watch Kieran Crowley up at Rugby Park in New Plymouth punting a wet leather Adidas ball so waterlogged it weighed 18kg, but bang, it sounded like a shotgun going off when he punted it. History now ` the 24th of August 1996, and Taranaki won the Ranfurly Shield. The game's highest point by far. Higher even than this guy Jonah. Oh, oh, oh. Jonah. - Whoa! - And rugby goes professional. Super Rugby, that is. Not so super for the provincial game, but super enough to stick around all this time. Now, the future. Last year, the Black Ferns had an absolute banger. We loved the game more than ever before. - Yay! - Yeah! That's the history, though. And another cheer of love and rugby within 60 seconds. - Awesome. - Go the girls. Yeah. - Now, coming up ` Karen seeks a solution for haircut introverts by meeting the god of hairdressing. And during a night out at the Blues, Gourdie finds out the shocking reason that Super Rugby isn't what it should be. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Nau mai, hoki mai, Kiwis. Now, I don't wanna give too much away or get anybody too excited, but Gourdie is about to undress Ardie Savea. - AUDIENCE: Ooh. - (CHUCKLES) - (CHUCKLES) But first, Eli and Courtney, I'm keen to know that the rest of the world has got just as many issues as we do. - Can do, Paddy. It's time for The World Has Issues. (APPLAUSE) Starting off in the US of A, and ex-president Donald Trump has issues after photos of confidential documents being stored in his Mar-a-Lago estate were released, including sensitive documents stacked in boxes and the bathroom. - Oh. (CHUCKLES) - Staff at Mar-a-Lago haven't had to buy toilet paper since June 2020. (LAUGHTER) He said that there's no security risk. OK. The only other person who has access to them is the janitor ` Jelena Not-A-Spy. - Great accent. And in totally unrelated news, Australia have announced plans to ban the display of and sale of Nazi symbols in a bid to curb a rise in the far-right movement. - Wow. - Symbols like swastikas and SS insignia will be banned across the country, with up to 12 months in prison for offenders. The story was broken by Australia's Channel 'Nein' News. (LAUGHTER) It could make for some awkward prison chats, though. 'What are you in for?' 'Murder. What are you in for?' 'I'm really bad at drawing windows.' (LAUGHTER) - (CHUCKLES) Wild times in Costa Rica, where a female crocodile who has lived in isolation for 16 years has produced an egg with a fully formed foetus. - Whoa. - Scientists have dubbed it the first virgin birth in crocodile history, or to use proper scientific terminology, the egg got laid, but she never did. Also on the scene of the virgin birth were three wise iguanas bringing gifts. (LAUGHTER) - Now it all makes sense. That's why Jesus' final words were, 'In a while, crocodile.' (LAUGHTER) And finally, to England, where at least three British guards have fainted from heatstroke during rehearsal for a military parade. The region is in the middle of a heatwave, with temperatures in London hitting 30 degrees. This is probably the most embarrassing thing to happen to that guy, and he's a professional trombone player. - Ooooh. (CHUCKLES) - To combat the heat, though, the military have updated their uniform to include a summer weather option. Those Speedos look very breathable, actually. - CHUCKLES: Gorgeous. And that's all the news that has happened. Back to you, sad tromboner. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - But I'm a happy Speedo-wearer. (CHUCKLES) Now, Gourdie, speaking of happy, fans are usually happy, but there's a lot of chat that fans aren't tuning out to Super Rugby games. - That's right, mate. Yeah. Take a look at these numbers, all right. This is the average crowd size for the Blues and the Warriors this season. The Warriors ` 21,000. The Blues just 16,000. Now, the Blues, they've actually attracted the biggest crowd of the season, but the average is pulled down by some really low numbers for games against the Aussie teams. Kiwis love a Kiwi derby, but they don't turn up for games against some pretty average teams from across the ditch. So we followed some fans along to a game to find out what attending a Super Rugby game is like in 2023. Who's gonna win? - Blues all day. - OK. Blues all day. (CHILDREN CHEER) The Mataia family love the Blues. Mum Claire brings her boys Rieko and Nate along to Eden Park to watch the team whenever she can. Rieko's favourite player is his namesake, Rieko Ioane. (CHEERFUL MARCHING BAND MUSIC PLAYS) Nate normally backs the Blues, but tonight, he's behind the Hurricanes and his hero, Ardie Savea. - Coming to the game is definitely, like, next level from sitting, watching at home on the couch. Just the atmosphere at the games, hearing the crowd. You feel like you're part of it. - I'm sure you will have noticed that the crowds aren't quite what they used to be. - Yep. - What do you think that's about? - Maybe there's a misperception around, you know, how much it costs to go to a game and stuff. Depending on where you sit, a lot of the times kids are free to take. So it actually can be quite a cheap experience and a really fun, good night out. - It's funny cos there's a lot of sentiment out there at the moment. Some people think that Kiwis are falling out of love with rugby. What would you say to that? - Oh, definitely not. Definitely not. We're down at the club, our local rugby club, every Saturday. Yeah, there's a lot of passion out there for rugby. - All right. Well, we'll keep a special eye on Ardie for you tonight. And Rieko for you. - Yep. - Yep. - Let's hope one of them at least scores a try, eh. - Yeah, I hope so. - Yeah. - I'll be looking out for you two. - COMMENTATOR: There he goes. Right up the middle. Oh, he's unbelievable. (CHEERING) That's a beauty from the Hurricanes. - As the second half gets underway, I head up to meet Blues CEO Andrew Hore. He knows there's a problem but isn't convinced Kiwis have fallen out of love with the game. - We're definitely not dead and people still love our sport. It's just a matter of making it relevant. - People will hear you say that, and they'll say, 'Well, why is it not dead? You give me the facts. 'What are the facts? Tell us.' - The facts are broadcast is up this year. We can't explain the percentage, but it's a significant percentage. We know that our digital reach is up, you know, with well over 20%. So people are following. They're there. It's getting them back to the ground. - How do we fix that? How do we get more people along to the games? - This sport needs to be treated like any other world class international competition and actually having people working on it all the time. Working out what the fan wants, making it far more fan-centric, doesn't take a lot. And then you start to get the tribalism building again and people travelling, which is fantastic. - He goes hard. He goes straight, and he goes through. He's gonna run. Rieko Ioane! (WHISTLE TRILLS) That's huge! That might just be the winner for the Blues. - Hey, guys. How are we? - Hi. - Hey, brother. - Hey. - What's your name, man? - Rieko. - Rieko as well? (TINA TURNER'S 'WHAT'S LOVE GOT TO DO WITH IT' PLAYS) - All good, brother? All good? - He loves you. - Oh, thanks, buddy. - Don't you, Nate? - Thanks for supporting me, my man. You know what? Stuff it. Can you help with my jersey, please? (CROWDS EXCLAIMS) - Good on ya! - Here we go. Here we go. - Smooth talker. (TRIUMPHANT MUSIC) - Cheers, mate. - Ardie. - Thank you. - What a cool night at the rugby, eh? - Best night ever? Best day ever? - Good stuff, eh. - Yeah. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - So good. So good. - Super stoked. And I never thought I'd find myself helping Ardie Savea get undressed, but here we are. What did you think, Eli? - (STAMMERS) Yeah. If you get sick next time, I'm willing to fill in. (LAUGHTER) - Get you off the bench. Hey, now, we obviously talked about those crowd numbers, Paddy. TV is another matter. And this is where things get really interesting, cos on the same night, the Warriors played the Broncos at the very same time. Now, Sky TV, they never ever give out their viewing numbers. They have given them to us, though. Have a look at this. Clearly, much more people ` 182,000 versus 107,000 ` watched the Blues, 'Canes versus the Warriors. Now, what does this tell us? People still like watching Super Rugby. They're just not shelling out their hard earned to go to the game. Now, another point, Andrew Hore, you heard him say there that Super Rugby needs staff working full-time on the competition. Crazy to think this competition doesn't have that 30 years into its existence, but we'll talk a little bit more about that later on. - Yeah, OK. Really good work, bro. Now, Karen, tell me that you have got some answers in terms of these people that just don't like these hairdressers yabbering away at them. - Of course I do, Paddy. Look, you know, I realised that I had to go right to the top. The biggest name in hairdressing. - Wow. Pam? As in Pam's shampoo? - No. No. (LAUGHTER) - Vidal Sassoon? - Vidal Sassoon's actually passed away. - Oh. - No. I went to the Rodney Wayne. - Wow. - Ooh. - Sure. It's nice to have salon doing chat-free appointments, but I wanna go bigger. I'm gonna talk to the biggest name in hair ` Rodney Wayne. Hello, Rodney. - Hi. - 'I couldn't believe I was meeting the Rodney Wayne, 'who introduced me to the Newton ` Rodney Wayne's creative and education director.' OK. So can you confirm or deny ` is Rodney Wayne in fact related to Bruce Wayne? - That's a question that he may have to answer. But if it's related to Batman, then does that also make me a superhero? (SILENCE) - What do you think about my haircut? - Well, I love the colour, but I think the important question would be ` how do you feel about your hair? - I think it makes me look gay. What do you think? - I think if you want that type of look, then that's absolutely fine. - I do. So, my best friend Tina, it's been over a year since she's had her haircut. She just gets really anxious even about booking one in. What could you do for her? - We like to keep everything 95% professional and 5% personal. As a hairdresser, you normally read the room with your emotional intelligence. You get telltale signs of whether the client actually likes to talk in situations or whether they just like to keep quiet. - So, say someone wanted to go in and get a lesbian haircut, is that where you'd use that 5% personal bit, to find out? - We'd probably do that in the consultation process. So` - Ask them if they're a lesbian? - No. We'd find out what type of haircut they would like by either showing pictures. - Of lesbians. - Of whoever. - 'After hearing Tina's story, the team at Rodney Wayne decided to make a change.' So, when you're booking online, you can basically just say 'don't talk to me'. - That's something that's in the works. It probably won't say it exactly like that. It will sound a lot nicer than that. - Yes. Yes. - Yes. - You can now book in a chat-free appointment at any Rodney Wayne across the country, and we even got to try one for free. - Appointment for Tina. - Lovely. Come on in. (ARIANA GRANDE'S 'MY HAIR') - # To run your hands through my hair... # baby, cos that's why it's there. # Come run your hands through my hair. # - Uh, Tina, you still have to pay. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Oh. Massive result. So, people that don't wanna talk to their hairdresser, just go on to the website and click a box saying 'no talkies', Karen. Well done. Awesome. - So basically, I've sold it not just for Tina, but for everyone around the country. I mean, I'd call that pretty much a converted try. (LAUGHTER) - Yeah, it sure is. (CHUCKLES) All right. And if anyone's got an issue out there, what should they do? - Absolutely. Just get in touch, issues@paddygower.co.nz, and I will come and help solve your issue. - All right. Coming up ` Andrew Gourdie asks the chief executive of Rugby New Zealand how he's gonna fix rugby and get some surprising answers. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) I'm the other Louis Hamilton, from Rotorua. Skinny hired me to tell you about their low-cost broadband. Get Skinny Unlimited Broadband for just 45 bucks a month when on a $27 or above mobile plan, plus get 4 months free broadband. Get the Skinny! (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Welcome back, Kiwis. Now, Gourdie, out to you. - Thanks, mate. - Oh. - Oh, jeez. (LAUGHTER) Mate. - You're supposed to` (CHUCKLES) That was a huge... - That's a solid 18 g on the mouthguard right there. - Yeah. Could have at least given you the mouthguard. - Good hit from you, Karen. Now, Paddy, obviously, Blues CEO Andrew Hore, you heard him speak a bit earlier about having dedicated staff for Super Rugby. Now, this idea has been labelled the Super Rugby Commission. Now, there's a feeling, though, that this is being held up by Rugby Australia, and in particular, their chairman ` a guy called Hamish McLennan. Now, I wanted to speak to the New Zealand Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson about this and talk about what they are going to do to get bums on seats and get Kiwis re-engaged with Super Rugby. (SERENE MUSIC) You're around places like this all the time. You're on sidelines. You're at games. What are Kiwis saying to you about where the game is at in New Zealand in 2023? Well, look, I guess there are a range of views, aren't there? And it's different to what it was in the past. The game's definitely got some issues, but the game is still really strong in terms of its connection to people's hearts and minds. - But you will, I'm sure, be reading some of the stuff that is on social media. It feels like, to a degree, rugby's lost the narrative. So how do you get that back? - Challenging sometimes, isn't it, when there's a huge amount of scrutiny and people setting out, you know, different stalls on their views of the game to maybe break through that? The establishment of the Super Rugby Commission is a really important step in this. If you have an organisation focussed 365 days a year, 24-7, what can be better about Super Rugby, we're sure that will make a big difference in the game. - Let's talk about the Super Rugby Commission. - Mm. - What's holding it up? - Well, there's some work. As we've said, we're in a JV partnership with our friends from Australia. And they've had some things to work through in their own space around getting to` - How friendly are they? - Nah, look, we have a really great relationship. It's a unique relationship at times. So, there seems to be a really good acceptance we've gotta get on as it relates to the commission and get it stood up quickly. - I'll be direct about this. - (CLEARS THROAT) - I've spoken to a few of your stakeholders and they cannot stop talking about Hamish McLennan ` that this man is holding up the process and he's strangling Super Rugby out of self interest. What would you say about that? - I've got no doubt there's some frustrated stakeholders around the game. I know that. I'm hearing it directly, obviously. And I'm frustrated myself at times. - Why are you being so patient with him? - Well, we believe we need this competition to be a great competition. - Do you need Australia? - At this time, we think we do, yeah. - Fans are sending a pretty clear message in New Zealand, through their attendance, that they don't care much for Australian teams in this competition. Why are you being patient? Do we really need Rugby Australia? Why do we need Rugby Australia? - They're a traditionally very strong rugby country. You know, for long periods of time, they've sat in the top few teams in the world. They've gone through an incredibly challenging last few years. There's no doubt about that. The overarching question will be, you know ` is five teams the right amount of teams for them to have? And that's, again, a question for them and the competition as it stands up and runs. - What do you think? - History would show they are a stronger union when they have less than that. But that's ultimately a decision for them, and it's something we'll work more on when we get the commission up and running to look at. - What levers can you pull to make this a more even competition ` whether it's a draft system, a salary cap, a transfer system, which is going to mean a change to Super Rugby as we know it? - I think there'll be more and more work, as the Commission stands up, to investigate those areas with urgency. What I'd say is we're incredibly open-minded to all these possibilities. Nothing is off the table as it relates to the way we're viewing the future of the competition. - Can you see a situation in the not too distant future where you might allow our leading players to represent other Super Rugby teams, whether it be in Australia or Fijian Drua or Moana Pasifika, and still be eligible to play for the All Blacks? - We're incredibly open to it, and we acknowledge it would create a greater degree of interest and is something that we should be moving towards quite quickly. - Do you think Hurricanes fans, for example, would be prepared to see Ardie Savea representing an Australian team? Or we can pick any example really, can't we? - (CHUCKLES) Well, I'm not gonna speak` I mean, the Hurricanes fans might not feel that great about it, but certainly, fans around the rest of the competition would probably think, 'Wow. That's really interesting.' And at some stage, it might be the right thing for Ardie or someone else across our leading player group to think about in terms of wanting to freshen up in another city across Australasia or the Pacific. So yes, we acknowledge that that could be really interesting, both for the fan and the player. - Just to wrap things up, this programme has had a key question at the heart of it. Are Kiwis falling out of love with rugby? - No. No. The game is different, but people are still connected to it. We've had absolute proof that when good things happen in the game, it brings people together. When more challenging things happen in the game, it creates conversations and polarisation like we don't see across our communities. And if people didn't care about the game and think deeply about it and want it to be great, they wouldn't be having those conversations. (APPLAUSE) - OK. Well done, Gourdie. Now, I should have known that a bloody Aussie would be behind a lot of the problems. But seriously, some big hints there from Mark Robinson about some major changes. And I, for one, am looking forward to the day when Ardie Savea is playing for the Brumbies and that bloody try would have been allowed. - Yep. Yep. - And Karen's issue would have been solved. - Too right. Too right. And I think fans are gonna love that idea, aren't they? Hey. Now, guys, there is one more part of that interview that I wanted to share with you because I think it really shows that there is still a lot of love, a lot of passion for the sport right at the very top level. Now, at the very end of my chat with Mark Robinson, who remember, used to play for the All Blacks, we threw him a couple of quick-fire questions. It was all pretty fun until we got to question number three. Take a look. Who's the better winger ` Ruby Tui or Jonah Lomu? - Oh. (CHUCKLES) That's an unfair question. - It's a complex question, isn't it? - Uh, it is, you know. That's not a quick-fire question either. (BOTH LAUGH) Look, Jonah... Jonah changed the game. Jonah was... You know, and I'm a little bit biased here. As much as I love Ruby, I played with Jonah. He was the guy I roomed with in my first All Black assembly camp, when Smithy was coaching, for that matter. He provided one of the biggest avenues and platforms into the game going professional. He really transformed the sport. So it's hard to go past Jonah. I mean, he made it relevant in Asia and in the United States and in parts of the world it could never dream being relevant. So, uh... (INHALES SHARPLY, SIGHS) - Sorry, mate. I didn't realise that that would set you off. - Oh, nah. We miss him, eh. - Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Do you need a minute? - No. No. Well, yeah. It might pay to take one minute. - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I didn't realise that that question would set you off like that. - No, I didn't` Well, I was just thinking about him. - Yeah. He was huge for the game, wasn't he? - Yeah. (APPLAUSE) - Now, guys, I don't know about you, but I reckon that's a pretty awesome, personal, authentic moment. And I just think, in so many ways, that actually sums up what rugby's all about. - Yeah, mateship, and I've enjoyed working on this with you as well, mate. Now, for me, though, it goes like this. The big question tonight was ` are we falling out of love with rugby? Well, I reckon we are a little bit. They need to make it easier for us to love. There's no point in being in denial about this. And if it's with the changes to Super Rugby like Gourdie drilled into or speeding up the rollout of the mouthguard technology that I looked at to help with concussion or whatever oval ball issue we choose ` there's so many of them ` Rugby's bosses need to get off their butts. The game is under threat, and in the case of concussion, it is an existential threat. The time for complacency is gone. 14,000 less kids in the game is an absolute shocker. Rugby's bosses need to open up to this ` a bit like Mack Robinson just opened up about Jonah Lomu. I'm not moaning. I'm not whining. I'm not weird. I just want to be in love with rugby again. I'm putting down the ball. Let's pick it up and run with it. I'm Paddy Gower. Those were my issues, and I'm going to miss youse. See you next week. (CHEERS, APPLAUSE) www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023