Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023. - Tonight ` it's something people feel they can't talk about. - So it totally affects your life? - Yeah, it totally affects your life. - So why are they also having problems getting their treatment covered? - It does seem a little bit strange that they are happy to pay for something that's more risky and may end up with complications down the line. - We're here to get some answers. Plus ` a real ripoff that's left a young author gob-smacked. - Someone out there is ripping off not just my work, but other people's work. - And is it cats, is it dogs or is it something else ` what seems to be munching away on our clothes? - Belt buckles, benchtops, bottle caps, clotheslines, jean buttons, lanyards, moths... (JAZZ MUSIC) - Tena koutou katoa. Welcome to the show. If you find yourself dreading the sound of a running tap or worrying about coughing or sneezing, it is a problem you share with nearly 1 million other Kiwis. - Mm. We're talking tonight about an issue that can severely affect women after childbirth, and others too. It can be hugely disabling and life-changing. - Luckily, there are options to fix it, but it can be tricky getting your insurance company to cover the cost. So when Fair Go was asked to help with this one, Gill went after an insurance giant, looking for answers. (TINKLY MUSIC) - We're in the head office of Southern Cross, apparently the most trusted health insurer in the country. - Yeah, well, I understand that, that it's a trusted brand. - Here we are, doctors and patients, complaining to Fair Go that the funding policy is unfair. We'll get to the response later, but first, what condition were the complaints about? (TOILET FLUSHES) That's a bit of a clue. It's incontinence. Nearly a million kiwis, who pee when they don't want to or can't make it to the toilet in time, and funnily enough, not many want to talk about it. But you know that feeling when the sun breaks though on a winter's day? Well, it's the same when you meet someone who'll speak out for others who find it hard. - Hi. - Thank you so much for coming to talk to us. Kristen's a nurse, who developed stress incontinence, peeing whenever she laughed or coughed or even just ran. - You feel dirty, you feel ashamed, you smell; for me, it impacted on, um,... (TUTS) how, or being intimate with my partner. - So it totally affects your life. - Yeah, it totally affects your life. - A life of bulky pads, cancelled plans, worrying there's no toilet nearby, because if there's not... - Oh, God, um, well, short of wetting yourself, properly, you would have to try and find somewhere that was private. Yeah, you feel ashamed, so it's actually hard going and talking about it. - So she totally understands people like ` we'll call her Anya ` a farmer who wants anonymity, because she doesn't want people to know. - I'm 39. I'm a mum of three kids, and my husband and I have a sheep and beef farm. Since having children, anything, I guess, physical, and I can kind of, like, really try my best to hold ` it's not like I flood everywhere, but I just leak. - She contacted Fair Go after Southern Cross said it wouldn't pay for part of the treatment her doctor said would be best. The treatment is Bulkamid. - The bulking agent is basically an injection. - It's applied via a fine needle. - Causes a little bit of closure, and that's how it stops the leakage. - Southern Cross fund the cost of the procedure, but not the gel-like bulking agent. But one doesn't work without the other, and it can be a good choice for women. - The wonderful thing about bulking agents is that they're a really simple procedure, so it's a day stay procedure, there's no incisions at all. The risks of complications is very, very minimal. - Anya wanted a quick recovery, because life on a farm doesn't stop, and she was told she was a perfect candidate. - I wasn't at the extreme end, and because of my age, he recommended to start with the Bulkamid. - As this specialist explains, there are other options for treating incontinence in Aotearoa ` pelvic strengthening and sling surgery. - This is the blue mesh. - Exercises didn't work for Anya; slings really didn't appeal. - It's like a ribbon, but it does go right up to the skin. Slings can be made of two things, basically ` either out of mesh or out of natural body tissue. And making them out of natural body, that sounds like a really good idea, and it can be, but it's actually a much more significant operation. - So mesh is the most common sling. This is fully funded by Southern Cross. Compared with Bulkamid, it has a higher success rate, but it's also more invasive, has a longer recovery and a greater risk of serious complications. In fact, it's banned for some conditions, but not incontinence here. - So long as they are being seen by an appropriately credentialed surgeon, they should feel really confident that they're going to have a good result; not to say that, uh, the mesh is, um, good in everybody, cos sometimes it's not. - As Kristen knows only too well. - It can work for a lot of people, but when it goes wrong, it goes really wrong. - She's had mesh inserted twice. - First time round, it actually worked very well for me. It was life-changing. - But then she had a nasty fall. - It dislodged the mesh on one side, and, yeah, I became incontinent again. - The insertion of a second mesh... - I was told that it was safe. - ...then brought nothing but problems. - I had experienced a very large bleed, and I was incredibly sore, and it just got worse and worse. - The mesh inside Kristen was scanned in detail. - It showed inflammation round where the mesh was ` yeah, it showed essentially that that mesh did need to come out. - She's now got what's called a bladder pacemaker. It works, but the damage inside her can't be undone. In Aotearoa, there are over a thousand women who've reported problems similar to Kristen. It's actually a very small percentage of those who've had the procedure, but it's enough of a risk for women to want choice, including Bulkamid, and it is fully funded by many. - So, my experience has been that all the funders, except for Southern Cross Insurance, will fund bulking agents, so that's all the private insurance companies; it also includes Te Whatu Ora, the public sector and ACC. - But get this ` Is it that much more expensive than other treatments? - It's actually cheaper. - Yes, it's cheaper, until you consider its slightly lower long-term success rate. - So I think the number crunchers in Southern Cross have done the numbers and said, 'Well, actually, it would be cheaper for us if you just had a mesh sling.' - Anya was adamant she wanted Bulkamid and really hoped for full funding ` after all, she'd paid her premiums for years, so she wasn't giving up. - And I asked if I could speak to someone more senior, that could explain why, and she kind of just fobbed me off and couldn't explain, so I asked if she'd get someone to call me, and she said that she would. - With no call back, Anya tried again a few days later. - And I was on the phone for probably 45 minutes, and then she couldn't put me on to anyone higher up either. - Another long-term Southern Cross customer ` we'll call her Katie ` had a similar experience. - I went to Southern Cross and applied for preapproval, and they approved everything, except for the actual Bulkamid. - She's also shy of people knowing, and as a mum, she's also keen for something simple and quick. - The recovery time was really important to me, having a young child. - And she wanted low risk and simply doesn't get why she can't have it. - It does seem a little bit strange that they are happy to pay for people a higher amount for someone to have something that's more risky and may end up with complications down the line. - Katie would rather wait than opt for mesh. So, where does that leave you? - It leaves me with the... the prospect having an accident at any moment. - Meanwhile, Anya decided she'd somehow find the money herself. But it was around this time, just days before her surgery, that Fair Go queried Southern Cross' decision and Anya saw she'd missed a call. - When I got home and rung, she said that Southern Cross were covering the whole procedure. But I daresay it was your email to them. I was amazed and very happy. - Aw. (CHUCKLES) Yeah. - I feel like it takes a bit of stress and makes you feel more relieved, going into the surgery tomorrow, knowing it's all covered, but I don't know if it's just an exception for me or whether it's for everybody. - Which brings us back to our visit to Southern Cross. - When we looked at this in 2019, we were already paying for the procedure. - Southern Cross says it wasn't funding the bulking agent, because a study showed a success rate of just 40%. - So then in 2021, a new study came out ` it was a better result, and we said, 'Yes, we will now pay for the bulking agent, 'as well as for the operation itself.' - Hold on. Sounds like great news, but it's two years on, and where Katie and Anya live, there's still no funding. Why? Price. It's only available where Southern Cross and individual clinics can agree. - We have contracted doctors in Auckland. - But as yet, not elsewhere. Canterbury specialists argue they have agreements with other insurers, so why not Southern Cross? - We have a different approach; we're not for profit. - So you will fight over price? - We are doing everything we can to try and get the best value, to try and contain the claims growth, and therefore the premium growth, for our members. - Each clinic would argue they're trying to get the best for their patients too. And it's good there's agreement it's a worthwhile treatment, but what now for women who aren't in Auckland? - As of today, women outside Auckland can now travel to Auckland to have the procedure, fully funded or as per their policy with a travel allowance, and hopefully, very shortly, we will agree contracts in which they can go to their local area. - Let's hope so. With nearly a million members, that's a lot of women who'd like this simple treatment fully funded in their hometown. - Oof. - Brave women. - Mm. - Anya has now had her procedure and is back playing netball, accident-free, which is great news. Katie has been offered help with travel costs to go to Auckland, but says with a toddler and job, that's just too difficult. - So is the sticking point here that the individual clinics are asking too much money to cover the bulking agent, or that what Southern Cross is willing to pay is too low? As the haggling goes on, it's patients like the women in our story who effectively pay the price. - E haere ake nei, coming up ` the doctor, the thesis and the book thief. - Holy crap, that's my thesis, you know, and it's got my name on the front, and there's a cover design, and it's kind of there and I can buy it, and it was just the most bizarre thing. - And Pippa explains why she's been rifling through her T-shirt collection. - If you're one of the afflicted and you thought it was just you, think again. - Yes, all the time. All the time. - Often, yes. (LAUGHS) - Hey, Toyota. - (BABY FUSSES) - WHISPERS: Got something safe? It's kind of a big deal for me now. - Yeah, take your pick! WHISPERS: 'Oh, sorry. 'These all come with Toyota Safety Sense as standard.' - Will it be looking for signs of danger? - Well, yeah. It has a pre-collision system with autonomous emergency braking. - Can it help me stay in my lane? - Actually, it can. (CAR ALARM BEEPS) - (MAN SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) - Can it help me keep a safe distance from others? - Yep, that too. - Do you do 5am test drives? - Kia ora, nau mai, hoki mai. Welcome back. Now, here's a story about a real ripoff, that's robbed someone of the fruits of years of work and even put their future hopes in jeopardy. - Mm. It is a bizarre and audacious scam that shows you really can't judge a book by it's cover. Here's Garth. - There's a thief stalking the hallways of our universities. - Someone out there is ripping off not just my work, but other people's work. - Plagiarism, copyright infringement ` just flash words for stealing, however it happens. - Bizarre. It's been a bizarre few weeks. - And someone has robbed Hayden Thorne. Dr Hayden Thorne? - Yup, officially, yeah. - So how's it feel to be a doctor? - It's great. You know, it's kind of, like, the culmination of 10 years of study. - His doctoral thesis is why we're here. It's a big loss. - Just shy of 100,000 words, 240 pages, over a thousand references ` it's a big piece of work. (CHUCKLES) - This has been all over the news, and this institution is what Hayden wrote about ` a detailed study of the US Supreme Court and the successful strategies lawyers have used when advocating there. - Well, it took me three and half years, working between 30 and 40 hours a week on my PhD, and probably 30 hours a week on other work and bits and pieces, um, to pay the bills. - With the abiding interest in America, there's probably a book in it. - It's not some gripping page-turner bestseller ` it's a very niche subject. - And yet here it is, The Due Process Revolution, out in paperback already. - Holy crap, that's my thesis, you know, and it's got my name on the front, and there's a cover design, and it's kind of there and I can buy it, and it was just the most bizarre thing. - Hayden discovered it wasn't just Barnes & Noble ` Amazon had it too and Booktopia and plenty of others. - It was, like, about an hour of, kind of, sitting there going, 'What the heck is happening?' - If this had been in a regular bookstore, like Unity, who kindly let us film here, Hayden could ask his questions directly ` not just how on earth and who do they think they are, but practical stuff too; he's got a young family. - I wanna know if they sold any copies. It would be nice to, like, actually have someone pick up the phone and give you a ring and say, 'Hey, sorry that that happened ` that's our bad,' or 'These are the processes we have, and this is how it happened; 'this is what we're doing to try and stop it from happening in the future.' But no one's done that yet. - As best we can tell, someone has downloaded Hayden's work from the university's open research hub, where it's free to read and states Hayden holds the copyright. That someone seems to be a publisher called Mantara, which seems to have no contact details anywhere, but appears to deal with a US company called Lightning Source. It prints books on demand, one at a time if you want, and shares listings to big retailers. The problem is these listings have spread across the book-selling internet ` find it one place, ask them to take it down; then you find another and another, then another, and nobody will tell you who set this in motion. And remember who this is hitting hardest. - You know, the average wage for a writer in New Zealand, an author in New Zealand is $13,500; it's not enough to live on. - Copyright Licensing NZ helps gather what is due from legitimate sources, but chasing a pirate is another matter. - The onus is not on the platform, but unfortunately it's on the owner of the copyright. - It's on him, the guy that wrote this to take care of it? - Yes. A takedown notice is what you should be sending them. You know, you may need to get a lawyer involved. - So these people who are... taking other people's property, they know that no one is checking, that the only process there is someone who actually owns the copyright, or someone who knows them, saying, 'Hey, that's not yours; that's mine'? - Unfortunately, yes. - Wow. That seems really harsh. - Mm. - Hayden has tried everything to get to grips with this. Fair Go pitches in and tracks down some humans... OK. Cool. All right. ...starting with Booktopia. Their Booky Bot says... - With more than 6 million books in our catalogue, we rely on publishers to have the necessary processes in place. - But now... - The book is no longer available to purchase. - It is still being advertised as 'out of stock' or 'unavailable' in some places, which could still cost Hayden. - I've got a book proposal underway ` you know, I'm working on it in the evenings and spare time whenever I find any. - What might a legitimate publisher think of those lingering listings? - They're gonna Google me, and the first thing they're gonna see is that, 'Oh, well, he's already published it ` 'why would we publish this?' And that is a concern. - Booktopia and Barnes & Noble seem to have completely scrubbed the listing. - We are deeply sorry that this happened with Dr Hayden Thorne's thesis, and once we were made aware, it was immediately removed from our website. Titles feed automatically on to our website from standard, reputable industry databases, such as Lightning Source, and we do our best to diligently monitor these submissions for violations of our content policy. - Lightning Source is part of Ingram Content, a multinational based in Nashville Tennessee, where we find another human. Can they help? - We take these issues very seriously and have a whole team dedicated to reviewing content on a regular basis. - And since Fair Go got involved... - We are in contact with the author directly about this matter. - Hayden's hoping Ingram can undo some of the potential damage to his reputation and tell him how many copies were sold. - I did buy a copy ` I spent $65 on a copy of my own work. It hasn't arrived yet. I wonder if it will. I think it will. - I hate to be the bearer of bad news, sorry, Dr Thorne ` but Booktopia tell us there's no book winging its way to you and no royalties, but there is a refund coming. - Hmm. Booktopia also say there's only been one book sold, and that was to Hayden himself, but they do hope that he does find a home for his work on his terms. - I know people who'd love to read that. - Yeah. - And they look forward to sharing that with the world, if or when that opportunity arises, which, of course, includes getting paid. - E haere ake nei, coming up ` a holey crusade, with our shining knight armed only with a darning needle. - You'd get a few a week, almost, or...? - Oh, no, there's a lot a week. A week, I'd say... 20 to 30 a week. - Really? 20 to 30 tops coming in a week with these little holes? - Oh yes. It is very, very common. - Kia ora, nau mai, hoki mai. Welcome back. Now, last week, Pippa Susan Wetzell set out on an amazing journey into the unknown. She was attempting to unravel a mystery that could affect hundreds ` possibly thousands of us, who really knows ` it's all about Kiwis and their clothes. - (LAUGHS) That's not my middle name. I don't know about unravelling, Haydo, but I have been talking to experts about those mysterious little holes that turn up on our favourite cotton T-shirts and knitwear. Right about there. - Oh wow. - What are they, what's made them; can we stop it happening? Here goes. (GENTLE MUSIC) - You'd get a few a week, almost, or...? - Oh, no, there's a lot a week ` a week, I'd say... 20 to 30 a week. - Really? 20 to 30 tops coming in a week with these little holes? - Oh yeah. It's very common. - (BOTH LAUGH) - It's part of, yeah, everyday activity, really. - That's right ` the old hole in the lower front of your T-shirt or top. With 20 years in the tailoring and repairs business, this is no new phenomenon for Wendy Do. - T-shirts for summer; and winter, it's a lot of knitwear, um, cashmere tops, um, even wool fabrics. - If you're one of the afflicted and you thought it was just you... Think again. - Yes, all the time, all the time. - Often, yes. - (LAUGHTER) - Yeah, definitely. Like, where it's rubbing, like, if it's something in your pocket or your keys, yep, I've had it before. - On Facebook, too, the struggle is real, and the theories are varied. People blamed acid, ash, belt buckles, benchtops, bottle caps, clotheslines, jean buttons, lanyards, moths, pegs, seatbelts, silverfish, washing machines, welding sparks, and these guys; at least the mischievous ones, who kneed and claw. In fact, our Facebook post morphed into a show-and-tell for your pets. Don't get me wrong ` we loved it, but Wendy doesn't think they deserve too much of the blame. - It's only a part of it. I'd say, from what we're seeing in many years, it would be just, like, a quarter of what's causing, but I think the jean is the main thing. - That's right ` Wendy reckons jean buttons, belt buckles and benchtops are the main culprits; so we're talking friction, which means you also need to keep an eye out for seatbelts, cross-body bags and lanyards. And of course the material makes a difference too. - The higher quality the material you're, um, using for your garment, the less likely it is to hole. - Dr Tracey Wedge is a textiles expert. - The cotton fibre comes from a plant, and the staple length is the length of the hair, so there's varying lengths, and the shorter the staple, the cheaper the yarn that is produced from it, so it's less quality, so you're really after the longer staple yarn. - Now, that's not necessarily gonna be that easy to tell, but Tracey says just have a really good feel of the fabric, and compare it with another if you can. - The thinner, kind of, less stable fabric, um, is more likely to hole. When you're buying garments, you really should invest in the best quality you can, and if you can't, um, afford that, second-hand is fantastic. I mean, there's a huge amount of textile waste in this country and globally, so it's really something we've got to think about. - That means not just hiffing something out if it's damaged ` get out the old sewing kit,... I don't actually know what I'm doing. ...or head to a professional. - From a tiny small hole, it could be about $15, and it could go up to about $50, so really depends on the material. If you really like it, if it's, like, organic cotton or it's a really expensive merino, then, yes, it's definitely worth to fix. - And even embrace the imperfections. That's kind of terrible. (LAUGHS) - There's quite a trend at the moment to, um, do quite visible repairs, and they become a statement on your garment. - I'll just put a patch on it. Perfect. - Wow. So many skills. You're keeping them so hidden. - (LAUGHS) Well, I'm not sure if you noticed that Dr Tracey Wedge mentioned that visible repairs are the new trendy thing, and I nailed it. Well, that's it for this week, but you can catch up on this and all our past episodes on the Fair Go page on TVNZ+. - Did you nail it, though? Did you really? - (LAUGHS) - You can get in touch with us ` we're on Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok ` we're loving Tiktok. Our webpage, tvnz.co.nz You can email us ` fairgo@tvnz.co.nz Or get out the old pen and paper, send us a letter ` PO Box 3819, Auckland. The postcode is 1140. And a little request from our beautiful researchers ` please include your address, your phone number, so we can get in touch with you quick smart. - That's right. Thank you for watching. Send all your repair work to me as well (!) I'll take care of that (!) Until next week,... - BOTH: ...pomarie.