The Amanpour Hour Aired March 09, 2024 - 11:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. [10:59:37] … CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. And welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR. Here's where we're headed this week. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: The Roe v Wade ripple effect overseas. With reproductive rights under attack in America, a world first as France makes abortion a constitutional right. MARLENE SCHIAPPA, FORMER FRENCH MINISTER FOR GENDER EQUALITY: We have a solidarity with our American sisters, and we want to tell them that France is with her. AMANPOUR: An Israeli hostage held by Hamas for 51 days with her three children describes her hellish time in captivity. CHEN ALMOG-GOLDSTEIN, FORMER HAMAS HOSTAGE (through translator): It's a kind of emotional abuse that they didn't let us cry. AMANPOUR: Also this hour, creeping famine and starvation in Gaza where children are now dying for lack of food and water. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Death is better than this. AMANPOUR: Then, to Ukraine's front lines where they're being forced to ration ammo. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this year is going to be the worst year in the war. AMANPOUR: And from my archive the abortion attempt to convert communism in to capitalism in the early 990s. And how this failure in Russia paved the way for Putin. (END VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. We begin this hour with a history-making moment in France, in direct response to lawmakers turning back the clock in the United States. On International Women's Day, France formally enshrined the right to choose an abortion in its constitution. A decision President Macron took after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned roe versus wade back in 2022. Since then, almost two dozen Republican led states have imposed new restrictions on a woman's right to choose, not to mention threatening access to IVF. President Biden used his State of the Union speech to call for restoring Roe versus Wade. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BIDEN: Many of you in this chamber and my predecessor are promising to pass a national ban on reproductive freedom. My God, what freedom else would you take away? Those bragging about overturning Roe v Wade have no clue about the power of women. If you the American people send me a congress that supports the right to choose. I promise you I will restore Roe v Wade as the law of land again in a moment. (END VIDEO CLIP) AMANPOUR: In a moment, I'll talk to Marlene Schiappa. A former French cabinet minister, who famously appeared fully closed in playboy to challenge gender stereotypes and extol women's right to sexual freedom. But first from Paris, here's correspondent Melissa Bell with more on how us politics galvanize the reproductive rights movement in France. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the adoption, 780; against 72. MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ut was an overwhelming majority of French law makers gathered in Versailles who voted in favor of changing Frances constitution. In central Paris, women celebrated the fact that their freedom to terminate a pregnancy would now be beyond the whim of political change. EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: This will enshrine the freedom of women to choose abortion and to be a solemn guarantee that nothing will ever limit or abolish this right because it will have become irreversible. BELL: Back in 2022 the streets of Paris too, had heard the cry that became so familiar as the U.S. Supreme Court prepared to reverse Roe versus Wade. SARAH DUROCHER, PLANNING FAMILIAL: With what happened in the U.S., there was a strong reaction in France by politicians. Several laws were proposed and the prime minister came to see us here at family planning to tell us how worried she was about the right to abortion. BELL: A right as hard won in France as it was elsewhere. The procedure only legalized in 1975 after a battle led by the lawmaker and then health minister Simone Veil, a woman speaking to a parliament of men. [11:04:53] SIMONE VEIL, FORMER FRENCH HEALTH MINISTER: This is an injustice that must be stopped. BELL: Nearly 50 years on it is a different generation of women celebrating the fact that France is now going a step further. The French artist Barbara Pravi says her own experience with abortion at 17 was so traumatic that it was in song that she tried many years later to deal with it. What difference do you think it'll make to have it enshrined in the constitution. BARBARA PRAVI, FRENCH ARTIST: Having the right to do abortion cannot be like a condition of politics. You know, it has to be something we have and no discussion. BELL: Recent polls suggest that over 80 percent of the French population supports safeguarding abortion rights. PRAVI: If you put something in the Constitution it automatically change people's minds. I know that my children will never think about the question about abortion. BELL: Barbara says she was able to put her loneliness and shame into song but believes that France's constitutional change might help women in the future to feel neither. Melissa Bell, CNN -- Paris. (END VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: Joining me now is Marlene Schiappa, former French minister for gender equality, who is at the U.N. next week to discuss these huge issues. Marlene Schiappa, welcome to us from Paris. Can you tell me about this show of solidarity -- SCHIAPPA: Hello. AMANPOUR: Hi -- was sit really a solidarity? SCHIAPPA: It's (INAUDIBLE), France is making history now. And as you heard, so many (INAUDIBLE) everywhere around the country were mobilized. And President Macron decided to put abortion in constitution. AMANPOUR: And how much did the decision of Roe versus Wade in the U.S. play into this? We know that Macron himself made that decision. But what did the people of France -- women, feminists think when that happened In 2022? SCHIAPPA: Yes, you know, in France we are very political people and very feminist country. So actually you're totally right. We were looking at what was happening in the U.S. about Roe versus Wade and it was heartbreaking to see how women's rights are suffering a backlash in the U.S. because you know, abortion is not allowed and it is threatened in Afghanistan, in Iran, in some states here in Europe, in Hungary, in Poland. But we see U.S. as freedom country, as a country of freedom and as a country who gave many huge feminists to history. So we never thought Roe versus Wade would be attacked like it was. So I think in France, it's important for us to put abortion in constitution and that law is a symbol, it is a huge symbol that we are given to women here in France in order to tell them that in France, we won't let abortion be threatened by no one. And that in the U.S., we have a solidarity with our American sisters and we want to tell them that France is with her. AMANPOUR: Do you fear, in part, even though the right to choose is legal in France and has been since 1975, that a future right-wing government in your country might have threatened your rights? Was that part of the reason to enshrine it constitutionally? SCHIAPPA: It is a possibility because you never know what is going to happen when the far-right is going to have the power. The far right are some populist leaders, as we saw in Europe, as I said, but in the U.S. too. We would never have thought during Barrack Obama's mandates that one day the future president is going to (INAUDIBLE) against Roe versus Wade. So I think it's important that we are protecting our rights. And by putting abortion in constitution, we are protecting the right to every woman to choose. It is not about to being pro or against abortion. It's about the right to choose, to every woman to choose when she wants to be pregnant or not, and when she wants to give birth out to not give birth. AMANPOUR: Marlene, let me just go back in history to the 1800s. Famously, the French statesman Alexis de Tocqueville extolled that France and the world had for the U.S. Constitution. It was the admiration of the world. And he wrote about it in "Democracy in America". And it's constantly -- his words are constantly being quoted now. But I want to read you something from an opinion that was written for CNN, a journalist and author living in Paris. [11:09:46] AMANPOUR: She said, France still has its problems with sexism and misogyny more than I could fit into a column. But compared to today's America, France looks like the version of a feminist Utopia that could only be dreamed of by Greta Gerwig's Barbie universe." Do you agree with that? Do you think it is a feminist Utopia or what, what issues do women still grapple with in France? SCHIAPPA: First of all, as a feminist myself, and as a French feminist and as a French former minister for gender equality, I would say that as Alexis de Tocqueville, I would say that American Constitution is very inspiring because you have the right to preserve freedom, to pursue happiness, and it is important. And I myself think it's that much important that I have a tattoo with the Statue of Liberty in order to celebrate American and American's Constitution and declaration of bills. So I think it's very important. But as you know, I said to President Macron, the U.N. two years -- I think two years ago he said France is back and I was with him and I said though, France is back and so is feminism. And I think you have in the U.S. Gloria Steinem and many huge feminist figures. And I think in France we had Simone Veil that we heard in your topic just previously. And I think that France is a feminist country, a feminist utopia -- I won't say that because you know, we put abortion in constitution, but it is still difficult for women in France to have access to abortion not in the law, not in the right, but in reality. When you want to have an appointment to a doctor, it is very long. If you live in the country, in a little city, it could be very hard, even (INAUDIBLE) to find a doctor who wants to see you and to give abortion. So I think it's hard but it's important to put it on the law and the constitution. It is a major symbol, that tell -- it is a symbol. I wouldn't say its paradise or so in France for women. AMANPOUR: Ok. Because exactly you said women are equal in law, but not in fact. In many other issues as well, whether its pay or whatever. SCHIAPPA: Exactly. AMANPOUR: Yes. So what are you going to be telling the U.N. with your fellow feminists from around the world and given you where the minister for gender equality in your country. What will you be discussing and what steps to be taken in the future? SCHIAPPA: We have rights about gender pay gap and still no gender equality at work between men and women. So I think emancipation, economic emancipation is key because when you have your own pay, your own salaries, then you are free to make your own choices. You are not depending to your boss, to your husband, to your family, and you are truly free. I think freedom for women is the most important thing, but we cannot put just freedom in the law. So this is why it is so important. And this is why we have to lead that struggle together with all women all around the governments, NGOs, companies, activists. And we are going in the United Nation in New York in order to tell that to the world and to tell that feminists are here out together and that we want equality now. Marlene Schiappa, thank you so much. And I just wanted to ask you to show me your arm again. Show us your tattoo. The Statue of Liberty was a gift of the French to the United States. SCHIAPPA: You can see it -- it's important. French-American friendship is still there. Thank you so much. AMANPOUR: Thank you so much. Coming up on the show, the children starving to death in Gaza and the mothers who want the world to witness this suffering. But first an Israeli hostage held by Hamas for 51 days describes her time in captivity. We'll be right back. [11:13:57] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) AMANPOUR: Welcome back. Faced with multiple crises abroad, President Bidens annual State of the Union address came at a critical moment in this campaign for reelection amid growing frustration over his backing of Israels war in Gaza. The speech was delivered exactly five months after Hamas militants attacked Israel, murdering over 1,200 and kidnapping more than 240 from their homes. Over 110 Israeli hostages have been released from Hamas captivity since the war began. But 130 remain in Gaza. 99 of them believed still alive, but with no word of their condition. Chen Almog-Goldstein lived to tell her harrowing story of survival in Hamas captivity. Her husband Nadav and eldest daughter Yam, were murdered by Hamas on October 7 just before she and her three remaining children -- Agam, Gal and Tal -- were kidnapped. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: Chen Almog-Goldstein, welcome to our program. I want to know how you survived those 51 days of hell, as you say. How were you treated by your captors and were you and your children held in the same place or were you separated? [11:19:53] ALMOG-GOLDSTEIN: Very difficult 51 days. The control of our life is taken away from us. And I try to look after myself and to be ok in this hellish reality. But it's all in the control of our captors, when we're going to eat, if we are going to go eat. They tried to provide us with food. There was more at the beginning, but less later. Drinking water was limited, sometimes 330 milliliters in 24 hours. It was very stressful for me. The lack of water is difficult to live with. While shortage of food you can live with, but water limitation is very stressful. Difficult conditions when you're shut in a flat, trying to open the windows a little bit. But there were heavy curtains so not much ventilation. I'm trying push my body towards some balcony door each morning to get some fresh air. And then, towards 4:30 or 5:00, it becomes dark. You use a flashlight and then candles, and you're worried that the candles will cause fire. There's incredible bombardment of the Israeli air force and artillery. Serious fear. We understand that they are mere cogs in the system, the captors, and we are hoping that they are not going to have instructions to kill us and that they would do it. We would ask them, they told us that they were guarding us, that they hoped that we were going to be ok and that we were not going to die, that they were going to die ahead of us, or we were going to die together. This was supposed to calm us down. We were not allowed to cry. They wanted us happy and told us to be ok. If we cried, we had to snap out of it or hide it. It's a kind of emotional abuse that they didn't let us cry. Agam used to sit down and stare, and they would say, what are you staring at? What are you thinking? There was no personal space. They said to us, we are not thinking. AMANPOUR: Chen, were you abused or your children, or were you abused physically by them? ALMOG-GOLDSTEIN: They didn't hate us, but I did describe abuse. If you didn't understand, I will repeat. Not to let a person cry or give them privacy or take control of our life. This is abuse, mental abuse. They put us in traditional clothes in order to move us from apartment to another, which is supposedly an external act. But Agam and I looked at each other the first time we did it, and we cried. You need to understand, they took our identity away. It was extremely difficult for us. This is also abuse. They didn't hate us. There wasn't any sexual abuse. They humiliated us though, sometimes mocking us. (END VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: And you could watch our whole extraordinary conversation online at Amanpour.com. Still to come on the program, time is running out for the people of Gaza on the brink of famine. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no food, no water, no flour, cooking oil, or anything," this woman says. "Death is better than this." [11:24:26] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) AMANPOUR: Welcome back. The United States and Jordan airdropped more food into Gaza this week, amid warnings that hundreds of thousands of people are at risk of mass starvation. The U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris calls the situation inhumane and reportedly called the visiting war cabinet member Benny Gantz on the carpet over it, telling Israel to let more aid in. CNN's Nada Bashir reports now on the children paying the awful price of what the U.S. calls this man-made hunger crisis. A warning that the images are of course distressing, but the people you'll hear from make it clear that they want the world to witness their reality. [11:29:51] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tiny limbs, bones protruding, the constant sound of crying from children now facing starvation in Gaza. In this overrun hospital ward, anxious mothers watch on as doctors provide whatever care they still can. But for some, there is nothing more to be done. Three-year-old Mila (ph), who had been suffering from acute malnutrition, now another victim of this merciless war. "She was healthy. There was nothing wrong with her before," Mila's mother says. "Then suddenly, everything dropped. She wasn't eating anything. We had no milk, no eggs, nothing. She used to eat eggs every day before the war. But now, we have nothing." Across Gaza, too many are feeling the pain of this deepening hunger crisis. Small children emaciated and malnourished. These were little Yevan's (ph) final moments, his tiny fingers gripped in his mother's hand. He like, Mila, would not make it. Others are still just barely holding on. But there is no telling how long they will survive. Standing beside Mila's body, Dr. Ahmad Salam (ph) says many children at this hospital are now dying due to a lack of food and oxygen supplies. With limited aid getting in, many have grown desperate, searching for food wherever they can. Nine-year-old Mohamed (ph) says he walks for about a mile every day to collect water for his family. "You seem sad. Why", this journalist asks him. "Because of the war," he says. It is all too much. On Tuesday, U.N. experts accused Israel of intentionally starving the Palestinian people in Gaza, noting that the Israeli military is now targeting both civilians seeking aid and humanitarian convoys. Israel has denied targeting civilians, and says that there is quote, "no limit to the amount of humanitarian aid for civilians in Gaza". But, the reality on the ground paints a very different picture. "There was no food, no water, no flour, cooking oil or anything," this woman says. "Death is better than this." According to a senior U.N. official, at least a quarter of Gaza's population is now said to be just one step away from famine with aid agencies facing overwhelming obstacles in getting the bare minimum of supplies into Gaza. And as Israel's ground offensive threatens to push further into the Strip's densely-populated south, time is quickly running out. While international efforts to airdrop humanitarian supplies have provided some respite, it is simply not enough, with stalling negotiations leaving a little hope for an end to the suffering and hunger of the Palestinian people in Gaza. Nada Bashir, CNN -- London. (END VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: It is indeed hard to comprehend. Coming up on the program: the failed attempt to convert communism into capitalism in 1990s Russia and how that helped pave the way for Putin's rise, then to its present-day consequences playing out on the front lines in Ukraine. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no point in trying to paint this in any sort of light where it's good for us that Russia takes Ukraine. [11:33:57] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) AMANPOUR: Welcome back. From my archive, a lesson from history on what motivates Vladimir Putin's brutal imperial ambitions. Despite sanctions and the slog of war, the Russian economy actually grew last year because of its war footing. That's a far cry from the days after the fall of the Soviet Union which Putin called the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century. Back then, as the country transition from communism to capitalism, global creditors and the IMF advised then-president Boris Yeltsin to use shock therapy. And we witnessed this western economic prescription fail miserably, causing a brutal financial meltdown and widespread poverty. Here's my report from the winter of 1992 where I saw the harsh conditions in St. Petersburg for myself. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: This city knows all about hunger. An eternal flame burns beside the mass graves of those who died of starvation during the Nazi's 900-day siege of Leningrad in World War II. [11:39:50] AMANPOUR: The young come to pay their respects. Those old enough to remember are afraid. UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I think it will be really bad. Can you imagine potatoes being three times more expensive? Even if we eat only bread and potatoes, we can hardly make ends meet. AMANPOUR: Outside the metro stations and at the markets, St. Petersburg's new paupers (ph) are selling off their own belongings, clothes, trinkets, and even a toilet seat, trying to raise a few extra rubles. City officials admit they won't make it through the winter or even the next 30 days without help. ALEXANDER BELYEAV, THEN-ST. PETERSBURG CITY COUNCIL CHAIR: we have only half the food supplies we need for the coming months. We're expecting aid from abroad and we're thankful for whatever we get. AMANPOUR: Handouts, large and small are being delivered to the hardest hit -- to an old woman who must support herself and her invalid son. She's pathetically grateful for this gift from Germany. She says it will last her all winter. In the stores, the prices are high and there's not much to buy. Outside the lines last well after dark. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I spend my whole day working hard and I come here and there is nothing. I've been to three stores already. Its intolerable. AMANPOUR: It's going through hard times now but this city has a remarkable history as the center of change and new beginnings. It's where Russian imperialism died and Soviet communism was born. And now it's trying to lead a capitalist revival, trying to turn itself into a haven for international investment. City officials want to turn St. Petersburg into a mecca for culture and tourism. They are giving her beautiful old face a lift, setting up joint ventures, about 500 so far, trying to sell off state stores, restaurants, and factories to private investors and trying to change the work ethic. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The reason we live so badly is because it will work so badly. As soon as we start working better, our life will be better. AMANPOUR: But even under the best of circumstances officials say it'll take at least 10 to 15 years before stability and real economic growth take hold. (END VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: But that attempt to jolt the economy into a whole new era was a disaster for Russia, leading to the kleptocrats and the oligarchs. And years later, Vladimir Putin himself revealed that he had been forced to moonlight as a taxi driver to make ends meet, a humiliation that he would never forget or forgive. Still to come, we revisit one of my favorite interviews with an Oscar nominee ahead of tomorrow night's academy awards. But first, we take you to Ukraine's front lines as soldiers run low on ammunition and residents run low on hope. [11:42:44] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) AMANPOUR: Welcome back. It was a close call for the Ukrainian president this week after a Russian missile exploded near his convoy. Volodymyr Zelenskyy was with the Greek prime minister on a trip to the Black Sea port of Odessa. It's a jolting reminder of just how dire the situation is. And nowhere is this war more real than on the front lines where Ukraine is rationing munitions while it waits for ammo and aid from the United States. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh saw the struggle firsthand. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It's a lonely path ahead. The Russians have never been louder or closer. Occupied Bakhmut is just up the road. But now some Ukrainian tank guns are silent just when they're needed most. Here, they don't have enough shells. Sometimes, they just won't fire at all. For a whole day; other days they'll be shooting constantly. And I tell you, it is loud on the other side of that hill. And it's sort of surreal to hear that sort of noise over there and see this tank unit having to ration their ammo. YAROSLAV, 42ND MECHANIZED BRIGADE (through translator): We have people but without weapons. This is not a war you can win with a sword. PATON WALSH: We learned they didn't fire at all that day, or the day before, or the next day. The silence here is what losing sounds like. So, too, is what these soldiers had to say. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the Americans don't give money, what's going to happen? I think we're all going to die. Everybody who is here, we will be no more. PATON WALSH: Is this the worst you've seen it? GARRISON FOSTER, U.S. VOLUNTEER FIGHTER: Yes, yes, definitely. I think, I think, this year is going to be the worst year in the war. Well, I do know that there's certain units that they're running out of tanks. PATON WALSH: How angry does it make you? FOSTER: Yes, I'm pissed. I'm absolutely pissed off. There's no point in trying to paint this in any sort of light where it's good for us that Russia takes Ukraine. That's going to be very, very, very bad for us geopolitically. PATON WALSH: It's here, Chasiv Yar, that already looks like defeat. Those left sounding like they'd be just about ok when Russia comes. [11:49:47] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to see my granddaughter. She's in Moscow. My sister is in Kaliningrad. Half of Russia are my relatives but I'm here alone. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No water, no gas, no power, nothing. They, Ukrainian soldiers, drive straight to the house where people live. And they fire right from the house. They hide behind the civilians' backs. PATON WALSH: Further south, near Avdiivka, homes that dealt with about 10 years of war just up the road are finally emptying out. VALENTINA, ZHELANIE RESIDENT: You know, the house shook four times already. It's made of clay and straw. They shell so hard that every time I think that's it, we are done. The most scary would be, if that horde, the Russians, come here. There can be no trusting people whose hands are covered with blood. PATON WALSH: The skyline is bleak enough as it is, but now rumbles with Russia advancing. Ukraine said it would hold steady at three villages near here after it left Avdiivka. That hasn't happened. All three are now heavily contested at best, and the noise of the Russian approach is louder. VIKTOR, OCHERETYNE RESIDENT: Donbas was Ukraine, we were living a normal life. We had jobs. I will turn 70 soon. I've been married for 52 years. We will be buried together right here. Right in the ditch there. PATON WALSH: Did you expect the Russians to get so close? EUHENE, OCHERETYNE RESIDENT: We didn't expect it. We thought it would somehow settle -- calm down. PATON WALSH: Some units had enough shells, they said, these firing American rounds in a donated Paladin, but still less than before. We didn't see much in the way of heavy defenses around here, and the worry is, was and will be, that Russia does not stop. It may not be huge and subtle enough to make the West pay urgent attention, but that's exactly what Putin wants anyway. Nick Paton-Walsh, CNN -- Chasiv Yar, Ukraine. (END VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: And up next, from Americans volunteering on the brutal frontlines to featuring the war in Hollywood. My interview with Ukrainian journalist and director Mstyslav Chernov, whose film "20 days in Mariupol" is tipped to win an Oscar tomorrow tonight. We will be right back [11:52:39] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) AMANPOUR: It's the Academy Awards tomorrow night with Oppenheimer odds-on to win Best Picture. Ryan gosling is set to perform "I'm Just Ken", which is one of two "Barbie" tunes nominated for Best Original Song. I've spoken with many of the nominees this year including Jeffrey Wright, America Ferrera, Sandra Huller and Jodie Foster. We've also showcased three of the best documentary nominations including "20 Days in Mariupol", which shocked us with the brutality of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. And I asked its director, Mstyslav Chernov why it is still so deliberately painful to watch. MSTYSLAV CHERNOV, "20 DAYS IN MARIUPOL": If we don't report everything as it is, if we don't show to people across the world, to our viewers, to our audience the reality of war it becomes acceptable. It's a big danger in not exposing the war all its brutality, for all its absurd. And if its polished, if its sanitized, then it's acceptable and that's -- that shouldn't be the case. (VIDEO CLIP FROM "20 DAYS IN MARIUPOL") AMANPOUR: So I see you watching and essentially you're back there. CHERNOV: Yes and I don't even have to watch. I remember every moment, every drop of blood. But I want to say that that's exactly why we need documentaries. First, it adds very, very necessary context. A part of news which are very short formed. The contexts give viewers and audience possibility to make their own judgments. And also with all their horrifying and very important tragedies that are happening when we are bombarded by them every day these important stories are just lost. So the only way to preserve the memory of Irina (ph), of Evangelina (ph), of Ilia (ph) and Kyril (ph), all those children have died is to make a film about it. So to be sure that the memory's there. AMANPOUR: Did she survive? CHERNOV: No. No. AMANPOUR: No. CHERNOV: And her child has also died. (END VIDEOTAPE) [11:59:55] AMANPOUR: So two years on tens of thousands of Ukrainians are dead. And the fact remains that Ukraine's ability to survive and stave off Putin depends entirely on politicians in Washington. Remember, you can watch all of my interviews with the Oscar nominees online at Amanpour.com. And you can also find all of our shows online as podcasts at CNN.com/podcast, as well as all other major platforms. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching and see you again next week.