CAPTIONS BY JASON CONRAN AND FAITH HAMBLYN. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2025. NAU MAI HAERE MAI. PIKI MAI KAKE MAI. KIA ORA E TE IWI. WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M GUYON ESPINER. YOU'D USUALLY HEAR ME ON RADIO NZ; TODAY I'M IN FOR JACK TAME. COMING UP ON THE SHOW ` ONE OF THE ARCHITECTS OF THE AUKUS DEFENCE DEAL HAS A BLUNT MESSAGE FOR NEW ZEALAND. ANY SELF-RESPECTING COUNTRY THAT IS GOING TO BATTLE THAT SORT OF THREAT, YOU KNOW, MIGHT WANT TO LOOK UP WHAT 'COUNTRY' MEANS AND WHETHER THEY STILL QUALIFY UNDER THE DEFINITION. THEN ` SHOULD WE MINE IT OR SHOULD WE PRESERVE IT? WE LOOK AT THE CONSERVATION VALUE OF STEWARDSHIP LAND. AND THE TRAGEDY OF THAT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD RUIN THIS BEAUTIFUL ENVIRONMENT, FOR PENNIES. WE'LL HAVE THAT STORY FOR YOU SHORTLY, BUT WE BEGIN TODAY WITH IMMIGRATION. AND AS THE GOVERNMENT SEEKS TO LIFT NZ OUT OF ECONOMIC STAGNATION, IT'S TURNING TO WEALTHY FOREIGNERS, IN THE HOPE THEY'LL INVEST THEIR CAPITAL HERE. ERICA STANFORD IS THE IMMIGRATION MINISTER, AND SHE JOINS US NOW. KIA ORA, MINISTER. YOU ARE VERY WELCOME. WEALTHY FOREIGNERS ARE THEY THE ANSWER TO NEW ZEALAND'S ECONOMIC WOES? THEY ARE A SMALL PART OF THE ANSWER. THINK BACK A YEAR AGO WHEN WE FIRST CAME TO OFFICE, WE HAD NET IMMIGRATION RUNNING AT AN ACCEPTABLE LEVEL. PROCESSING TIMES WERE AWFUL. WE DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT SKILL MIX OF IMMIGRANTS WE ARE BRINGING INTO THE COUNTRY. FAST FORWARD TO TODAY IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE WE CAN GROW THE ECONOMY AND BRING IN THE SKILLED PEOPLE TO DO THAT, WE HAVE HAD TO MAKE SURE THAT IMMIGRATION NEW ZEALAND ARE ON THEIR FOILS. WE HAVE DONE SO MUCH WORK ON THE LAST YEAR AND GETTING NUMBERS UNDER CONTROL, MIGRANT EXPLOITATION UNDER CONTROL, PROCESSING VISAS IN REASONABLE TIMES WHERE WE SHOULD BE, AND MAKING SURE THAT THE SKILL MIX OF MIGRANTS IS TILTED TOWARDS HIGHER SKILLED MIGRANTS. YOU CAN TALK ABOUT A FEW WEALTHY MIGRANT INVESTORS, WHICH I'M SURE YOU ARE ABOUT TO DO, BUT THEY ARE PART OF A MUCH BROADER PICTURE OF IMMIGRATION. LET'S DIG INTO SOME OF THOSE DETAILS. THAT 10 MILLION DETAILS FOR SOME OF THESE INVESTORS. ONE OF THE DETAILS IN THE $10 MILLION CATEGORY IS GOVERNMENT BONDS. IS THAT REALLY GOING TO HELP NEW ZEALAND GROW? WE HAVE LIMITED THE CHOICE OF TYPES OF INVESTMENTS OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS WITH THE NEW SETTINGS. WHAT YOU WILL SEE IS THAT THE NUMBERS COMPLETE LEE TANK, AND WE HAVE HAD 31 APPROVALS AND PRINCIPLES IN THREE YEARS, AND 70 MILLION INVESTED. IF YOU TAKE THE YEAR BEFORE COVID, WE HAD A COUPLE OF HUNDRED INVESTORS AND $1.1 BILLION INVESTED. THE FIRST THING TO SAY IS THAT WE MUST INCREASE THE POOL OF PEOPLE WITH SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE AND CAPITAL INTO THIS COUNTRY. THE SECOND IS THE RISK LEVEL. WE KNOW THAT MIGRANTS AND INVESTORS TO THIS COUNTRY HAVE DIFFERENT TOLERANCE TO RISK, AND MANY WANT TO JUST MAKE SURE THEY SECURE THEIR VISA AND ARE HAPPY TO SAY, ' I'M HAPPY TO PUT MY MONEY INTO BONDS,' BUT WE HAVE MADE SURE THAT WAY BUILT.COLLECTION INTO THIS NEW POLICY. WILLING TO KNOW THAT THEY ARE INVESTING IN KIWI STARTUPS AND BUSINESSES WHILE THEY ARE COLLECTING THEIR VISA. I DON'T WANT TO CLOSE THE DOOR WHICH WE HAVE BEEN DOING, I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT WE WILL IGNORE THE FACT THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU MIGHT INVEST IN BONDS YOU MIGHT ALSO DO A NUMBER OF OTHER THINGS. YOU HAVE SAID YOU DON'T JUST WANT PEOPLE FOR THEIR CAPITAL AND SKILLS BUT ALSO TO BUILD A LIFE FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILY HERE. DOES THAT NOT MEAN HOMEOWNERSHIP? I ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT IT DOES. THOSE CONVERSATIONS ARE ONGOING. THAT IS SIGNIFICANT. YOU DO BELIEVE THAT HOMEOWNERSHIP IS PART OF THIS DEAL OR SHOULD BE? I THINK THE CLEAR MESSAGE WE HAVE HAD FROM THESE PEOPLE WITH INCREDIBLE SKILL IN THE RESOURCE IS THAT YES, THEY WANT TO HAVE A BASE HERE AND SHOW OFF THEIR HOME TO THEIR FRIENDS AND RAISE THEIR CHILDREN HERE. YES THAT IS A BARRIER, AND THAT IS WHY THOSE CONVERSATIONS ARE HAPPENING AT THE MOMENT. YOU WANT TO RELAX OR RESCIND THE FOREIGN BUYERS BEEN? IN THE SMALL AREA I'M PLAY MY PART IN WHICH IS THESE MIGRANT INVESTORS. IT IS ALL VERY WELL TO SAY COME HERE AND BRING YOUR TENS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND BRING BENEFIT TO NEW ZEALAND BUT YOU CAN'T BUY A HOUSE OR BRING UP A FAMILY HERE IN A HOME THAT YOU OWN. THAT IS THE COALITION DEAL THAT YOU SIGNED UP TO ISN'T IT? I CAN'T SAY WHAT HAPPENS I CABINET BUT NICE TRY. THERE ARE CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE HAPPENING AT DIFFERENT LEVELS, AND NO DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE YET. HAVE THEY BEEN TAKEN TO CABINET YET? I CAN'T TELL YOU. MY PERSONAL VIEW IS THAT IF YOU ASKED THESE PEOPLE TO INVEST SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF MONEY IN THE NEW ZEALAND BUSINESS THEY SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO BUY A HOUSE. THAT IS MY PERSONAL VIEW. ALLOWED CONVERSATIONS ARE BEING HAD. I'M HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH INVESTORS AND IT IS NOT ONLY ABOUT HOUSES IT IS ALSO ABOUT TAX RULES AND VISAS. WE WILL TALK ABOUT SOME OF THAT STUFF. JUST TO BE CLEAR, YOU CAMPAIGNED ON A 15% FOREIGN BUYERS TAX TO GET $740 MILLION REVENUE ACROSS THE BOARD. ARE YOU LOOKING AT RESURRECTING THAT POLICY OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LIMITING IT TO THESE WEALTHY MIGRANTS UNDER THESE CATEGORIES? IN MY LANE THAT I'M WORKING IN, AND THIS PARTICULAR VISA, I AM JUST LOOKING AT THESE PEOPLE WHEN WE SAY TO THEM PLEASE BRING IN 10, 15, $50 MILLION DEPENDING WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO INVEST IN BEYOND THEIR INITIAL INVESTMENT. I THINK IT IS REASONABLE THAT WE SAY TO THEM YOU CAN BUY A HOUSE HERE. THOSE CONVERSATIONS ARE BEING HAD. IT IS ONLY IN THAT VERY NARROW LANE AT THIS POINT IN TIME BECAUSE THAT IS THE AREA I AM WORKING IN. ARE YOU CONFIDENT ABOUT GETTING THAT PAST WINSTON PETERS? THIS IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE. I AM INVOLVED IN THESE DISCUSSIONS BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO COME TO NEW ZEALAND WITH SKILL AND CAPITAL SO WE HAVE TO HAVE A GOOD PROPOSITION. IN SAYING THAT, IT IS NOT THE BIGGEST BARRIER. IT IS A BARRIER, BUT NOT THE BIGGEST ONE. ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE WANTING TO COME AND INVEST REGARDLESS OF THE HOUSE... AUSTRALIA SCRAPPED A SIMILAR SCAM, BECAUSE THEY FELT PEOPLE WERE BUYING RETIREMENT IN AUSTRALIA. THERE IS A NEW BOOK OUT WHERE THE AUTHOR SAYS HE IS CRITICAL OF THESE KINDS OF VISAS. SOME OF THESE PEOPLE HE SAYS HAVE DONE THEIR HUSTLING AND INVIGORATING WORK EARLY AND ARE LOOKING FOR MORE OF A RETIREMENT OPTION. SHOULDN'T WE BE LOOKING FOR THE PEOPLE WITH THE HUSTLE RATHER THAN PROMOTING NEW ZEALAND AS SUPPORTIVE SOME SORT OF RETIREMENT OPTION? WHILE I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT AT ALL, BUT WE ALSO WANT PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD AN AMAZING CAREER AND GOT OUT OF THERE AND BUILT ALL OF THOSE CONNECTIONS AND HAVE THAT SKILL AND KNOWLEDGE AND PASSION. I'VE JUST RECENTLY BEEN ON A TRIP FOR NEW ZEALAND WITH WEALTHY MIGRANTS MOSTLY AMERICAN INVESTORS WHO HAVE COME HERE. THE SKILL AND PASSION THAT THEY BRING TO THIS COUNTRY IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. IF NEW ZEALANDERS WANT THEIR CHILDREN TO WORK IN BUSINESSES THAT ARE GROWING AND CUTTING EDGE AND ARE BEING TAKEN TO THE WORLD, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE ACCESS TO CAPITAL, AND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO CAN GIVE US THAT. SO NO AGE LIMITS? THERE IS ALSO APPARENT RETIREMENT CATEGORY. THERE ARE MANY OPTIONS IN NEW ZEALAND, FROM BEGIN YOUR SKILL AS A 20-YEAR-OLD... JUST TO BE CLEAR, NO AGENTS ON THIS? NO, BUT THEY MUST BRING IN THE CAPITAL AND INVESTED FOR A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME. WILL MINISTERS BE INVOLVED IN THESE DECISIONS? NO, WE ARE NOT INVOLVED IN THESE DECISIONS, AS THE IMAGINE. OCCASIONALLY APPLICATIONS MAY COME INTO OUR DESK, IMMIGRATION MINISTERS ARE ONE OF THE FEW ABLE TO DO THAT, BUT ONLY AS AN EXCEPTION. DAMON KUMAR ` HAVE YOU HEARD OF HIM? BEEN TO SCHOOL IN NEW ZEALANDERS WHOLE LIFE NEVER SET FOOT IN INDIA, BUT OFFICIALS ARE SAYING HAS TO GO BACK. CHRIS PENK HAS REFUSED TO INTERVENE, WILL YOU? THAT IS NOT MY ROLE AND THAT IS HIS DECISION. I DO NOT KNOW THE FULL DETAILS BECAUSE IT HAS NOT COME ACROSS MY DESK, BUT BROADLY, THERE ARE RULES IN THIS COUNTRY FOR MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE ABIDE BY THE VISA SETTINGS. THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE EVERY YEAR WHO LEAVE THE COUNTRY WHEN THEY SHOULD AND DO THE RIGHT THING. BUT FOR THE SKY YOU WILL NOT INTERVENE? IT IS NOT MY JOB TO INTERVENE THAT IS FOR THE ASSOCIATE MINISTER AND DELEGATED DECISION-MAKERS. IT IS ON PEOPLE IN THESE SITUATIONS TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY AND COME BACK IN AND BE REGULARIZED ON A VISA. THERE ARE OPTIONS. WE HAVE TALKED A LOT IN THIS INTERVIEW ABOUT ATTRACTING PEOPLE WITH CAPITAL AND SKILLS. WHY THEN DID YOU INCREASE FEES FOR MOST VISAS IN AUGUST LAST YEAR, LIKE THE SKILLED RESIDENT VISA WHICH TO $6450. DOESN'T THAT CONTRADICT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY? WE ARE WORKING ON A COST RECOVERY MODEL. WHAT ARE THE COSTS THAT IT TAKES TO PROCESS A VISA AND WHAT ARE THE COSTS TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE RIGHT NUMBER OF COMPLIANCE OFFICERS, GOOD IT SYSTEMS. WE ARE CHANGING THINGS SO THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT PUTTING IN HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS... ABOUT $140 MILLION A YEAR COST IMPOSED ONTO THOSE PEOPLE THOUGH. IS IT FAIR TO SAY TO US SKILLED MIGRANTS THAT WE ARE GOING TO INCREASE YOUR FEES BY SUCH A LARGE AMOUNT? BUT LOOK AT THIS BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY WE HAVE 70 PEOPLE WANTING TO BRING THEIR SKILLS TO. THERE IS A TRANSACTION THERE COME UP TO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IMMIGRATION NEW ZEALAND HAS THE RIGHT NUMBER OF PROCESSING OFFICERS. WE HAVE TO CHARGE PEOPLE WHAT IT COSTS TO PROCESS THEIR VISAS. BUT WE KEEP A REALLY CLOSE EYE ON IT. I AM NOT A SAFE AND FORGET MINISTER. WE ARE KEEPING NI ON THE NUMBERS TO SEE IF IT IS MADE AN IMPACT. HAS IT? NOT AT THE MOMENT. IF IT CHANGES AND OF COURSE WE WILL MAKE SOME TWEAKS. SO YOU WOULD INTRODUCE THE FEES BACK? WHERE OPEN TO MAKING SOME SHIFTS OF COURSE.. THIS TALK ABOUT TOURISM VISAS. CHINA IS THE BIG DEAL HERE IS ENTERED? WHILE AUSTRALIA AND HAVE ARRIVALS CLOSE TO THEIR PRE-COVERT LEVELS, CHINA IS SITTING AT ABOUT 53%. DO YOU HAVE PLANS TO FIX THAT? THERE ARE SOME REASONS WHY THAT IS NOT COME BACK. FIRST REASON IS THAT CHINA WAS LATE AND OPENING THEIR BORDERS AND THEIR ECONOMY HAS NOT COME BACK. THERE ARE BIG DIFFERENCES BETWEEN US AND OTHER COUNTRIES, AND ONE OF THAT IS CLOSENESS. WHAT WORRIES SEEING AS A HALO EFFECT OF THE CHINESE, TENDED TO TRAVEL WITHIN CHINA AND THEN A BIT FURTHER OUT. WE ARE ONE OF THE COUNTRIES THAT IS FARTHEST AWAY, BUT WE ARE TRYING THINGS. WE PROCESS CHINESE VISAS IN SIX DAYS. WE HAVE A FIVE-YEAR MULTIPLE ENTRY FOR CHINESE VISITORS, WHICH IS MORE THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY. OUR SAVINGS AND WHAT WE REQUIRE IN TERMS OF INFORMATION IS THE SAME AS AUSTRALIA, BUT... THEY GIVE US A VISA WAIVER THOUGH, DON'T THEY? NEW ZEALAND VISITORS TO CHINA GET 30 DAYS VISAFEEE. WHY DON'T WE HAVE THAT? I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING RIGHT NOW IS PERCEPTION. ITS PERCEIVED IN THE MARKET THAT IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO GET A VISA, BECAUSE FRANKLY WHEN WE CAME TO OFFICE IT DID. ARE YOU GOING TO... THE REASON I'M SAYING THOSE THINGS IS THAT THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS WE CAN DO TO INCREASE OUR CHINESE VISITORS. WE HAVE TO IMPROVE OUR ECONOMY... ARE YOU CONSIDERING GIVING A VISA WAIVER TO CHINESE VISITORS? THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE CALLING FOR THIS BUT IT IS NOT ON MY WORK PROGRAM. WE WERE ALREADY PRETTY MUCH VISA FREE ALREADY IF YOU APPLY FOR A VISA YOU HAVE A FIVE-YEAR WINDOW TO COME AND GO, MORE THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY. I DON'T THINK OFFERING VISA FREE STATUS IS GOING TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE. THE THING IS THAT IN CHINA THEY BELIEVE THAT WE DO NOT WANT THEM HERE BECAUSE IT TAKES TOO LONG THAT WE ARE NOT VERY WELCOMING. BUT WE ARE VERY WELCOMING AND IT DOES NOT TAKE A LONG TIME TO GET A VISA, BUT I ADMIT THAT WE DO NOT COMMUNICATE THAT VERY WELL. THERE ARE NUMBER OF CHANGERS THAT WE ARE GOING TO MAKE AND I'LL PUT THEM TO THE PRIME MINISTER SHORTLY. BUT THE VISA WAIVER IS NOT ONE OF THEM? ARE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT THINGS THAT WE WILL AWARE NOT PUT TO THE PRIME MINISTER. I JUST WONDER WHAT IS UNDERLYING THAT. IS IT SECURITY CONCERNS? WHAT IS THE PART OF IT WITH NOT ISSUING CHINA VISA WAIVERS? WE DO IT FOR OTHER COUNTRIES. AND WE DON'T DO IT FOR OTHERS. WE USED TO HAVE VISA FREE WITH SOUTH AFRICA AND NOW WE DON'T. OF COURSE WE LOOK AT RISK FACTORS, WE DO FOR EVERY COUNTRY, NOT JUST CHINA. NEW ZEALANDERS WOULD EXPECT THAT IS WHAT WE DO BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE KEEP RISKS OFFSHORE. SO ONE OF THE FACTORS MIGHT BE SECURITY? SECURITY IS A REASON FOR WHY WE DON'T GIVE VISA ACCESS TO A LOT OF COUNTRIES AS IT WOULD EXPECTED TODAY. CHINA IS ONE OF THOSE? CHINA DOES NOT CURRENTLY HAVE VISA FREE STATUS INTO NEW ZEALAND. GIVE ME A STRAIGHT ANSWER ON THAT ONE. I'VE GIVEN YOU A STRAIGHT ANSWER SECURITY IS ONE OF THE REASONS, AND THERE ARE NUMBER OF OTHER FACTORS, AND IT APPLIES TO MANY COUNTRIES. YOU TALK ABOUT PERCEPTION A COUPLE OF MINUTES AGO. WHAT IS THE PERCEPTION FOR CHINA THERE? IF YOU TALK ABOUT AUSTRALIA AND AMERICA THERE NUMBERS ARE BACK TO ALMOST PRE-COVERT. DID THEY HAVE FREE VISA ACCESS, NO THEY DID NOT. NEIGHBOUR PERCEPTION TO MARKET AND YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT AUSTRALIA JUST SPENT $1 BILLION IN TOURISM SPEND AND DID A REALLY GOOD JOB THROUGH COVERT. I DON'T THINK BEFORE OUR GOVERNMENT CAME IN THAT WE DID NOT DO A GOOD JOB AT PROMOTING OURSELVES TO THE WORLD. WE HAVE MOSTLY GOT WORK TO DO AROUND PERCEPTION ANTIMARKET. I WILL I WAS TALKING TO SOMEONE IN THE TRAVEL INDUSTRY RECENTLY, I WILL NOT SAY WHO... AFTER THE BREAK WE WILL TALK TO ERICA STANFORD ABOUT EDUCATION AND WELCOME BACK. ERICA STANFORD IS ALSO THE EDUCATION MINISTER. LET'S TALK MATHS. I WANT TO TEST YOU IF YOU AGREE NOT TO TEST ME. ONE NUMBER I WANT TO TALK ABOUT I THINK LAST YEAR WE DISCOVERED THAT ONLY 22% OF OUR YEAR EIGHT KIDS WERE AT EXPECTED BENCHMARK. THINGS ARE NOT GREAT IN THAT REGARD. YOU HAVE A NEW CURRICULUM FOR MATHS. YOU ADVISED IT TODAY, FAST TRACKED IT AND GOT OUT A YEAR EARLIER. HOW IS THE ROLLOUT GOING? AMAZING. I'VE BEEN IN SCHOOLS THIS YEAR AND IT HAS BEEN INCREDIBLE, THE FEEDBACK. IT IS BEEN SO HEARTENING.. WE WORKED REALLY HARD LAST YEAR TO GET THIS OUT, BUT THIS YEAR I'VE GOT FEEDBACK ` JUST IN THE PAST FEW DAYS I WAS AT CAMBRIDGE MIDDLE SCHOOL AND ONE OF MASS TEACHERS SAID TO ME, ' YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH THIS IS GIVING ME BACK. ' I NOW HAVE AN ASSESSMENT TO BUILT INTO THE ASSESSMENT YOU GAVE US. I NOW KNOW WHERE EVERY STUDENT IS AT EVERY STRAND OF MASS AND I DON'T HAVE TO GO AWAY AND FIND RESOURCES.' IT IS ALWAYS NERVE-RACKING PUTTING OUT A CURRICULUM. WE PUT UP A MESS IN ANGUISH CURRICULUM AND IT HAS GONE DOWN SO WELL. TEACHERS HAVE TOLD US THEY LOVE THE BREAKDOWN AND HOW THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TEACHING EVERY YEAR. MY MESSAGE TO PARENTS IS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT A YEAR AGO, EVERY SCHOOL WAS DEVELOPING THEIR OWN CURRICULUM AND THERE IS NO CONSISTENCY. WE ARE NOT TEACHING KIDS TO READ USING THE LATEST RESOURCES, DID NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES. TODAY, 100% TURNED AROUND. YOU WALK INTO A CLASSROOM TODAY MATH RESOURCES WE HAVE NOT HAD BEFORE... IN TERMS OF RESOURCES, SOME TEACHERS HAVE TOLD US THAT THE KIDS GET ONE MATH RESOURCE BOOK FOR THE YEAR AND IT IS MATCHED TO THEIR YEAR LEVEL, AS EXPECTED, BUT ARE SAYING THAT A STRUGGLING YEAR SEVEN COULD NOT ACCESS A YEAR SIX BOOK IF THEY NEEDED TO. IF YOU TAKEN THOSE CONCERNS? IF THEY NEED A YEAR SIX MATHS BOOK THAT SHE GET IN TOUCH WITH US AND WE WILL SEE WHAT WE CAN DO. WHERE DOING A MATH TRIAL SPECIFICALLY FOR THOSE WHO NEED RESOURCES AND I HAVE ALREADY TOLD THE MINISTRY TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE ACCESS. WE ARE TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND GIVE ACCESS TO AS MANY RESOURCES AS WE CAN. SO THERE IS AN ISSUE HERE THAT YOU HAVE ASKED THEM TO SORT? THAT WAS ONLY FOR THE MATHS STREAM. WE WILL SOLVE IT. YOU TALKED ABOUT PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT. THERE IS A $21 MILLION FUND FOR MATHEMATICS IS IN THEIR? FOR MATHEMATICS. WHEN DO THEY DO THAT? LAST YEAR YOU SAID NO TO TEACHER ONLY DAYS RETURN TIME. I DID NOT SAY THAT. THERE ARE TEACHER ONLY DAYS RETURN TIME. IN FACT I'VE SAID THAT THERE ARE FOUR DAYS AND THEY CAN HAVE IN ANOTHER TWO DAYS... YOUR ASSOCIATE MENTOR DID SAY THAT. IT IS MY DECISION. I'M THE MINISTER OF EDUCATION, AND WHEN WE ARE ELASTIC CURRICULUM WE HAVE TO HAVE CORRECTLY HIM DAYS WILL STOP I AM NOT IN A POSITION, BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE SYSTEM WORKS WITH UNIONS, IS THAT YOU MUST DO IT IN THE HOLIDAYS. SEE YOU SAY TO DAVID SEYMOUR... WE HAVE ALREADY HAD THIS CONVERSATION. DID HE RUN IT PAST YOU BEFORE HE SAID THAT THERE WOULD BE NO TEACHER ONLY DAYS? I DON'T THINK YOU DID, BUT IT IS SORTED. THERE ARE TEACHER ONLY DAYS IN TURN TIME. WHAT I LOVE TO HAVE THEM AT OTHER TIMES? OF COURSE. SITTINGS ARE SUCH THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE THEM DURING TERM TIME. WE ARE TRYING TO KEEP THEM TO AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUM, BUT MY MESSAGE IS TO PARENTS THAT DURING THOSE TIMES, THOSE TEACHERS ARE LOOKING AT THE NEW CURRICULUM, UNPACKING IT, THE KNOWLEDGE RICH CURRICULUM THAT IS NOW INTERNATIONALLY BENCHMARKS BECAUSE WE HAVE A WORLD LEADING EDUCATION SYSTEM AND TRAIN, THAT THEY ARE UNPACKING IT ON THOSE DAYS. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT TEACHERS HAVE TIME TO UNPACK THE CURRICULUM. HE SAID TO ME 22% OF YOUR H'S ARE MEETING THE BENCHMARK. YOU HAVE MADE IT TOUGHER. YOUR MENTORING IS NOW 20% BY 2030. HOW DO YOU GET THERE? YOU'RE TRYING TO QUADRUPLE OF MY MATH IS CORRECT, QUADRUPLE THE AMOUNT OF SUCCESS RATE WITH A HARDER CURRICULUM. WILL WE GET THERE? THAT IS THE AIM. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE DONE EVERYTHING WE ARE DOING. THINK ABOUT A YEAR AGO, COMPARED TO TODAY. WE HAVE A YEAR-BY-YEAR, KNOWLEDGE RICH CURRICULUM THAT IS INTERNATIONALLY BENCHMARKED. TEACHERS LOVE IT. WE HAVE RESOURCES TO SUPPORT THE LYMPH IMITATION OF IT THAT WE HAVE NEVER HAD BEFORE. AGAIN, TEACHERS ARE LOVING IT THAT IS OUR FEEDBACK. THERE ARE DECODER BLUEBOOK'S IN CLASSROOM. THERE ARE SCHOOLS WHO WHERE TRAIN THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF TEACHERS AND STRUCTURE LITERACY. WE ARE SUPPORTING THE PROFESSION AND THE PROFESSIONAL LEARNING DEVELOPMENT. IT IS A WORLD AWAY FROM A YEAR AGO, AND I'M SO PROUD OF THE WORK THAT WE'VE DONE IN ONE YEAR. I CAN LOOK PARENTS IN THE EYE AND SAY WE ARE GIVING YOUR CHILDREN IN A WORLD LEADING EDUCATION SO THAT THEY CAN FALL THEIR POTENTIAL. CAN YOU LOOK PARENTS IN THE EYE AND SAY WE ARE GIVING YOUR CHILDREN LUNCH? LUNCHES ARE BEING ROLLED OUT. THEY ARE NOT BEING ROLLED OUT ON TIME, AND OFTEN THE FOOD DOES NOT GET THERE. WE JUST SAW ON FRIDAY IT WAS PIE DAY. IT WOULD BE A LAUGH IF... IT WAS MONDAY. NO ONE WAS LAUGHING AT FRIDAY I THINK CHILDREN ENJOYED IT. BUT HOW MUCH OF A DISTRACTION IS THIS FOR YOU? NONTITLE. I AM FOCUSED AS I SAID ON THE CURRICULUM, THE RESOURCING, MAKING SURE THAT KIDS OF ACCESS TO TWICE YEARLY ASSESSMENTS... 33% OF SCHOOLS USING THIS PROGRAM HAVE CONTACTED THE MINISTRY OF EDUCATION WITH COMPLAINTS OR QUERIES. IS THAT ACCEPTABLE? I THINK DAVID SEYMOUR, IF THERE IS HERE, WOULD SAY THAT OF COURSE IT WILL BE TEASING PROBLEMS AS WE MOVED. BUT IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY ULTIMATELY, ISN'T IT? ACTUALLY THAT IS HIS. AS WITH TEACHER ONLY DAYS, YOU SAID THAT WITH YOU. YES, THAT WAS ME. HE'S BEEN SAYING WE ARE GETTING UP TO 95% OF ON-TIME DELIVERIES. THINGS ARE IMPROVING. OF COURSE FOR CHILDREN NOT GETTING IN BE ALONE TIME IT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH, WHICH IS WHY I KNOW THAT DAVID SEYMOUR IS WORKING REALLY HARD WITH THOSE SUPPLIERS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE IRONING OUT THOSE TEETHING PROBLEMS, MAKING SURE EVERY CHILD WHO NEEDS A LUNCH IS GETTING IT ON TIME. HAS IT BEEN WORTH IT UNDER RETROSPECT, CUTTING $130 MILLION OF THE SCHOOL LUNCH PROGRAM? WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE 10,000 ECE CHILDREN GETTING A LUNCH THEY WERE NOT BEFORE, THAT IS WORTH IT. THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE TURNING UP TO ECE WITHOUT LUNCH AND BEING ON A WAGE WEIGHTS LIST WITH KIDS CAN AND OTHER KIDS, THEY ARE NOW TURNING UP THAT IS WORTH IT. HAVE YOU HAD ADVICE ON THE IMPACT OF THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE HAD SO FAR? CHILDREN IT IS MISSION-CRITICAL, THEY HAVE TO BE FIT TO LEARN. THERE ARE COUPLE OF THINGS. I HAVE HAD THE SAME BRIEFINGS AT THE ASSOCIATE MINISTER HAS. I HAD A CHAT WITH DAVID SEYMOUR TO ASK HIM WHAT HE NEEDED AND HE SAID HERE THE FOUR THING I CAN SEE THAT THINGS ALREADY IMPROVING. WHEN WILL WE GET TO 100%? YOU WILL NEED TO PUT THAT TO DAVID. SURELY HE SAID THAT TO YOU? HE SAID IT IS HAPPENING. TIMING WISE, WHEN DID HE SAY WE GET TO 100% DELIVERY? WE ARE VERY CLOSE. WE ARE 95 OR 96%. ONE OF THE THINGS HE SAID WAS THAT WE DID NOT FACTOR IN THE TRAFFIC IN AUCKLAND. IT IS MUCH WORSE THAN IT HAS BEEN AT THIS TIME OF YEAR. THINGS THAT WERE NOT EXPECTED THAT WE ARE HAVING TO WORK THROUGH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME THIS MORNING. IF YOU WANT TO CONTACT Q+A TEAM, PLEASE, KORERO MAI. FLICK US AN EMAIL ` QANDA@TVNZ.CO.NZ AFTER THE BREAK ON Q+A ` AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER SCOTT MORRISON TELLS US HOW A NZ COMPANY COULD PLAY A KEY ROLE IN THE AUKUS SECURITY ALLIANCE. HOKI MAI ANO. WELCOME BACK TO Q+A. AS AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER, SCOTT MORRISON EAGERLY SIGNED UP TO THE AUKUS SECURITY DEAL, WHICH WILL EVENTUALLY PROVIDE THE AUSSIES WITH NUCLEAR SUBMARINES. MORRISON WAS VOTED OUT OF OFFICE AT THE LAST AUSTRALIAN ELECTION. Q+A CAUGHT UP WITH HIM AT THE NZ ECONOMICS FORUM AT WAIKATO UNIVERSITY THIS WEEK, AND I BEGAN BY ASKING HIM WHY AUSTRALIA'S ECONOMY WAS FARING SO MUCH BETTER THAN NEW ZEALAND'S. WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I'D SAY THINGS ARE TURNING AROUND, AND THAT'S WELCOME. I MEAN, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND ECONOMICALLY IS BASICALLY HOW WE CAME OUT OF COVID. NOW, WHEN AUSTRALIA EMERGED OUT OF COVID, THE FOCUS OF OUR POLICIES WAS TO ENSURE THAT WE SAVED LIVES AND LIVELIHOODS. AND SO OUR POLICIES WERE ALWAYS CONDITIONED BY THE IMPACT ON THE ECONOMY AS WELL AS ON PUBLIC HEALTH. AND SO AUSTRALIAN HOUSEHOLD AND BUSINESS BALANCE SHEETS EMERGED FROM COVID VERY INTACT, WHICH WASN'T THE CASE HERE. AND AS A RESULT, WHEN DEMAND RETURNED TO THE ECONOMY, OUR BUSINESSES LEAPT ON TO IT, AND WE SURGED, AND OUR ECONOMY CAME OUT OF COVID STRONGER THAN ANY ECONOMY, CERTAINLY DEVELOPED ECONOMY IN THE WORLD, ARGUABLY, OTHER THAN KOREA AND TAIWAN. IT'S A JOB TO SORT OF GET AN ECONOMY GOING FROM WHAT WAS EFFECTIVELY A STANDING START HERE. BUT I THINK A LOT HAD TO DO WITH HOW WE MANAGED THE ECONOMIC POLICIES DURING COVID. - AND YOU SEEM TO HAVE SOME CONFIDENCE THAT NEW ZEALAND IS TURNING AROUND ECONOMICALLY ` IS THAT BASED ON SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU'VE HAD HERE? - YEAH, I MEAN, THE GOVERNMENT IS CERTAINLY LEANING INTO REFORMS. THEY'RE CERTAINLY LEANING INTO DEREGULATING THE ECONOMY AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH THE RMA AND SO ON. I MEAN, I WOULDN'T PRETEND TO BE AN EXPERT ON THESE THINGS. I FOCUS A BIT MORE ON WHAT'S HAPPENING AT HOME AND IN THE US AND OTHER PLACES. BUT IT'S A FAIRLY STANDARD AGENDA TO GET THINGS GOING AGAIN, GET GOVERNMENT SPENDING UNDER CONTROL, DEREGULATE AND REMOVE THE ROADBLOCKS TO INVESTMENT. MAKE SURE THAT YOUR TAXES AREN'T TOO HIGH ` IN FACT, GET THEM DOWN, WHERE YOU POSSIBLY CAN. I MEAN, IF YOU'RE MOVING INTO THINGS, YOU KNOW, WHICH WORKED VERY WELL FOR US, WHICH WE WENT TO 100% EXPENSING IN THE BACK, AND THEN THROUGH COVID, WHICH WAS ENORMOUSLY IMPORTANT. WE INVESTED IN HEAVILY INTO TRAINING AND EDUCATION, AND A LOT OF THAT WE DID OFF THE BACK. I MEAN, MY RELATIONSHIP WITH STEPHEN JOYCE GOES BACK MANY YEARS, BUT I GOT STEPHEN, WHEN I WAS PRIME MINISTER, TO DO SOME WORK ON OUR TRAINING AND EDUCATION SYSTEM, PARTICULARLY OUR VOCATIONAL TRAINING AND EDUCATION SYSTEM. AND WE'VE BENEFITED GREATLY FROM THAT. - ONE OF THE DRIVES THAT THIS CURRENT GOVERNMENT HAS IN NEW ZEALAND IS TO TRY TO DO MORE TO ATTRACT FOREIGN INVESTMENT, AND THEY'RE MOVING TO THESE VISAS, WHERE YOU GET WEALTHY FOREIGNERS AND TRY AND FAST-TRACK RESIDENCY. I KNOW AUSTRALIA HAD A SCHEME LIKE THAT. - I HAD THAT SCHEME. - YOU HAD THAT SCHEME, AND IT'S BEEN SCRAPPED. DO YOU BACK THOSE TYPES OF SCHEMES? - YEAH, I DO ` I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA. I MEAN, THE GOVERNMENT IN AUSTRALIA, I THINK` - DID IT WORK FOR YOU? - YES, IT DID. BASICALLY, IT BROUGHT PEOPLE WHO WERE INVESTING IN THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, BILLIONS ` SORRY, MILLIONS IN THE COUNTRY EACH. AND WHO ALSO BROUGHT A LOT OF ENTREPRENEURIAL SKILL AND TALENT. I MEAN, THE IDEA WAS BASICALLY TO GET ENTREPRENEURIAL, WELL-CAPITALISED FAMILIES TO MOVE THEIR CORPORATE BASE FROM ELSEWHERE IN THE REGION TO AUSTRALIA AND FOR THEM TO BECOME AUSTRALIAN FAMILY COMPANIES OVER TIME. I MEAN, AUSTRALIA'S GREAT SUCCESS IN BUSINESS AND ECONOMIC MIGRATION HAS BEEN ONE OF THE KEY PILLARS OF OUR PROSPERITY OVER A CENTURY. SO IT IS A GOOD PROGRAMME. IT'S NOT WHAT OUR OPPONENTS DESCRIBED AS, YOU KNOW, BUYING VISAS; NOT AT ALL. - ALSO, CHIEF AMONG THEIR CRITICISMS WAS THAT IT BECOMES, SORT OF, LIKE A RETIREMENT OPTION, THAT YOU'RE ATTRACTING PEOPLE WHO WANT THE LIFESTYLE, BUT HAVEN'T GOT THE SORT OF HUSTLE. THAT WAS ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT THEY HAD WITH IT. - THAT'S BOGUS. THAT'S A BOGUS. THAT'S JUST RHETORIC, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE PROGRAMME, AND THEY WANTED TO PUT MORE VISAS INTO FAMILY REUNION AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH HAS ONE OF THE LOWEST ECONOMIC VALUES OUT OF THE VISA PROGRAMME. THE BEST VALUE COMES OUT OF YOUR SKILLS PROGRAMMES. THIS WAS AN INVESTOR VISA PROGRAMME. AND OFTEN WHEN THEY DID STATISTICS, THEY COMBINED IT WITH OTHER ELEMENTS OF THE BUSINESS PROGRAMME AND THEN SORT OF SMOOTHED IT OUT TO SUIT THE ARGUMENT. SO, NO, I THINK THE SIV PROGRAMME, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE ALWAYS GOT TO WORK ON INTEGRITY IN YOUR VISA PROGRAMME, IN WHATEVER PART OF THE SCHEME IT IS. I MEAN, WHEN I WAS IN GOVERNMENT, I WAS AN IMMIGRATION MINISTER, I WAS A TREASURER; I WAS OBVIOUSLY A PRIME MINISTER; I WAS IN SOCIAL SERVICES AS WELL ` ANYWHERE WHERE THE GOVERNMENT IS PAYING OUT MONEY OR IS PULLING IN MONEY OR LETTING PEOPLE INTO THE COUNTRY, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PEOPLE WHO TRY AND GAME IT AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT. - SO YOU'VE GOT TO WATCH THE FRAUD STUFF ON THAT. - YEAH, OF COURSE YOU DO. OF COURSE YOU DO. AND IT'S JUST PART OF IT ` IT'S NOT A COMMENTARY ON SOCIETY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW, BE THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PEOPLE WHO WILL TRY TO TAKE A LOAN OF THE SYSTEM, AND NO VISA PROGRAMME IS IMMUNE FROM THAT, BUT I THINK THE INTENT OF ACTUALLY TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, BRING CAPITAL FROM PLACES WHICH ARE NOT AS STABLE AND AS SECURE AS AUSTRALIA, OR NEW ZEALAND, FOR THAT MATTER, AND HAVE THAT WESTERN BASE AND ACCESS TO THOSE MARKETS, IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE, AND THEY HAVE A LOT TO ADD TO YOUR COUNTRY, AND THEY CERTAINLY WERE ADDING TO AUSTRALIA. - THE WORLD IS SOMEWHAT ON TENTERHOOKS, WAITING TO SEE WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS GOING TO DO WITH TARIFFS. STEEL AND ALUMINIUM ARE ON THE TABLE AT THE MOMENT. YOU HAD AN EXEMPTION, RIGHT, LAST TIME ` DONALD TRUMP IN HIS FIRST TERM. - YEAH. FIRST SECURED BY PRIME MINISTER TURNBULL, YEAH. - YEAH. NEW ZEALAND DIDN'T GET THAT EXEMPTION, THOUGH. AUSTRALIA IS WORKING ON AT THIS TIME ` WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ADVICE FOR HOW NEW ZEALAND SHOULD PLAY THAT WITH TRUMP? - WELL, OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE UNITED STATES ARE DIFFERENT, AND PARTICULARLY IN THE SORT OF DEFENCE SECURITY SPACE. I MEAN, WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE A MUCH DEEPER INVESTED RELATIONSHIP IN THAT AREA, AND AUKUS IS THE GREATEST MANIFESTATION OF THAT. YOU KNOW, WE ARE ACTUALLY RIGHT NOW, AS A RESULT OF AUKUS INVESTING IN THE DEFENCE INDUSTRIAL BASE CAPABILITY TO BUILD SUBMARINES IN THE US, AS WE ARE IN THE UK, BECAUSE THAT HELPS US BUILD OURS. SO THAT IS A VERY DEEP RELATIONSHIP, AND THAT GIVES YOU A PRETTY BIG FOOT IN THE DOOR. - DO YOU MEAN JUST PRACTICALLY, BECAUSE YOU'RE EXPORTING STEEL FOR THAT, OR DO YOU MEAN THOSE ALLIANCES OF ANZUS AND AUKUS ARE MATERIAL AND ARE GOING TO BE TREATED WITH INTEGRITY? - I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S A CLOSER ALLY TO THE UNITED STATES THAN AUSTRALIA. THERE IS NOT ONE. THERE IS NOT A COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT CAN CLAIM A CLOSER RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UNITED STATES THAN AUSTRALIA, AND THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN OVER A CENTURY. AND IT IS EXHIBITED IN THINGS LIKE ANZUS, OF COURSE, BUT AUKUS, REMEMBER, IN AUKUS BEING PROVIDED WITH ACCESS TO NUCLEAR SUBMARINE TECHNOLOGY ` NOT NUCLEAR-ARMED, I SHOULD STRESS; NUCLEAR POWERED, THAT'S THE FIRST TIME THAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE THE LATE '50S, AND IT WAS ONLY EVER GIVEN TO ONE OTHER COUNTRY, WHICH WAS THE UNITED KINGDOM, IN THE WAKE OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR. SO THAT SORT OF TELLS YOU THE, SORT OF, LEVEL OF TRUST AND CLOSENESS THAT EXISTS IN THAT RELATIONSHIP. AND THAT WAS ACHIEVED OVER TWO ADMINISTRATIONS ` BOTH THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, SO IT'S BIPARTISAN. AND SO THAT DOES PUT AUSTRALIA IN A RATHER UNIQUE SPACE WITH THE US. NOW, I'D ADD TO THAT, THERE IS A MASSIVELY INVESTED CAPITAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE US AND AUSTRALIA. THEY ARE OUR SINGLE LARGEST CAPITAL INVESTOR ` YOU KNOW, DAYLIGHT SECOND. IT'S NOT CHINA ` CHINA DOESN'T COME CLOSE TO THE LEVEL OF US INVESTMENT, NOR UK INVESTMENT, FOR THAT MATTER, SO THERE'S THAT ELEMENT TO IT. THEY ARE HEAVILY INVESTED IN AUSTRALIA'S ECONOMIC SUCCESS. ON TOP OF THAT, WE HAVE A TRADE DEFICIT WITH THE UNITED STATES; THEY HAVE A SURPLUS WITH US ` THAT'S AN IMPORTANT CALCULUS. - HE LIKES THAT. - IT'S AN IMPORTANT CALCULUS. BUT I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS TOLD ABOUT THIS AND SORT OF SAYING, WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE IS THERE IS NOT A DOLLAR OF TARIFF PUT ON ANY GOOD THAT COMES INTO AUSTRALIA FROM THE US ` NOT A DOLLAR. SO I HOLD UP AUSTRALIA, WHEN I SPEAK IN VARIOUS PLACES ROUND THE WORLD. SO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH THE US LOOKS LIKE? THE ONE AUSTRALIA HAS, AND IT'S A TWO-WAY RELATIONSHIP. - NEW ZEALAND HAS ALMOST NONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT WITH THE US. DOES THAT LEAVE US HIGHLY EXPOSED, WHEN IT COMES TO TARIFFS, FOR EXAMPLE? - WELL, YOU HAVE YOUR OWN STRENGTHS IN THAT RELATIONSHIP. YOU ARE A PART OF ANZUS. YOU ARE A PART OF THE FIVE EYES, AND THAT IS IMPORTANT. NEW ZEALAND DOES HAVE A VERY UNIQUE ROLE TO PLAY IN IN INDO-PACIFIC SECURITY, PARTICULARLY IN THE SOUTH WEST PACIFIC. I WOULD SAY, IN MANY WAYS, THE RELATIONSHIPS THAT NEW ZEALAND HAS WITH THE SOUTH-WESTERN PACIFIC ARE CLOSER THAN AUSTRALIA DOES. THEY ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF RELATIONSHIPS ` WE'RE BIGGER, FOR A START, AND THAT ALWAYS BRINGS TO IT A DIFFERENT DIMENSION TO THE RELATIONSHIP. SO I THINK A NEW ZEALAND HAS A LOT OF ASSETS TO PLAY WHEN IT COMES TO THAT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UNITED STATES, AND ECONOMICALLY, I MEAN, EVEN IN AUSTRALIA, AUSTRALIA ACCOUNTS FOR JUST A LITTLE OVER 2% OF ALUMINIUM IMPORTS INTO THE UNITED STATES. YOU KNOW, IT'S TWO-FIFTHS OF NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO THE SIZE OF WHAT THE REAL GAME IS, IN TERMS OF WHAT THE US NEEDS ON ALUMINIUM. IN MY EXPERIENCE, I'VE ALWAYS FOUND THAT PRESIDENT A BIT MORE FOCUSSED ON THE STEEL SIDE THAN ON THE ALUMINIUM, BUT THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY MOST IMPORTANT TO HIM, AND MR NAVARRO, IN HIS ADMINISTRATION, IS AN ENTHUSIAST. - INDEED. YOU MENTIONED AUKUS ` IN FACT, YOU PRESIDED OVER THE SIGNING OF THAT, RIGHT? - I FOUNDED IT ` MY GOVERNMENT DID, YEAH. AS PRIME MINISTER. NOW THERE'S THE PILLAR TWO, WHICH IS THE NON-NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY, MILITARY TECHNOLOGY SHARING ARRANGEMENT THAT NEW ZEALAND HAS BEEN INVITED TO JOIN. SHOULD IT? SHOULD WE JOIN AUKUS PILLAR TWO, IN YOUR VIEW? - WELL, THE NATURE OF THAT JOINING ` I JUST SHOULD CLARIFY THIS. I MEAN, AUKUS WILL BE AUKUS ` THERE WON'T BE ANOTHER INITIAL IN IT, EITHER END OR IN THE MIDDLE. I DON'T BELIEVE THERE SHOULD BE ` I THINK IT COMPLICATES IT. SO THE THREE FOUNDING PARTNERS, I THINK, WILL REMAIN THE PARTNERS, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY NUCLEAR-POWERED SUBMARINES IS A MASSIVE PART OF THE ARRANGEMENT, AND THAT'S NOT HAPPENING IN NEW ZEALAND, BECAUSE OF POLICY AND BECAUSE OF SCALE, SO IT'S JUST A NON-STARTER. I THINK WHAT HAPPENS, THOUGH, WITH PILLAR TWO IS THERE WOULD BE DIRECT ENGAGEMENTS WITH FRIENDLY PARTNERS, LIKE NEW ZEALAND, LIKE JAPAN, LIKE KOREA, WHERE YOU CAN WORK TOGETHER ON PARTICULAR LINES OF EFFORT, ON PARTICULAR CAPABILITIES, PROGRAMMES AND SO ON. AND THAT'S WHERE I SEE THE EXTERNAL ENGAGEMENT IN AUKUS. - AND SO THAT'S WHERE YOU THINK NEW ZEALAND SHOULD ENGAGE? - ABSOLUTELY. AND ONE AREA THAT COMES TO MIND IS, AND WHERE I THINK NEW ZEALAND, AND PARTICULARLY ON ROCKETS, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE AHEAD OF US, WITH ROCKET LAB. I MEAN, YOU SHOULD BE SO PROUD OF THEM. THEY'RE AMAZING. - THAT'S FASCINATING. SO THAT'S THE SORT OF ENGAGEMENT YOU THINK THAT BOTH SIDES COULD GET SOMETHING FROM? - TO COME TO THE AUKUS TABLE, AUKUS IS A HIGHEST COMMON DENOMINATOR PARTNERSHIP ` ONE OF THE RISKS YOU HAVE WHEN YOU FORM THESE THINGS IS, YOU KNOW, THEN EVERYBODY COMES, AND YOU DILUTE THE WHOLE THING, AND IT BECOMES RATHER MEANINGLESS. I MEAN, TO PARTICIPATE IN AUKUS REQUIRES A LEVEL OF TRUST, CAPABILITY AND FISCAL COMMITMENT THAT, YOU KNOW, IS NO SMALL THING. AND NOT EVERY COUNTRY, A, GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT, AND NOT EVERY COUNTRY WOULD BE WILLING TO DO IT, NECESSARILY. BUT THERE ARE SPECIFIC LINES OF EFFORT WHERE I THINK BRINGING OTHERS AROUND THE TABLE AND INVOLVING THEM IN PARTICULAR PROJECTS, SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU TURN UP AND GET INVOLVED, WHERE YOU'VE GOT TO BE BRINGING SOME STUFF TO THE TABLE, NOT TAKING IT AWAY. IT REALLY IS A TWO-WAY STREET. SO IT'S A PARTICULAR EXPERTISE, A PARTICULAR EDGE THAT NEW ZEALAND CAN BRING, AND NEW ZEALAND HAS THAT. I MEAN, IT HAS TECHNOLOGICAL CAPABILITIES. IT HAS GOT AMAZING INNOVATORS ` ROCKET LAB IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THAT. AND IN PARTICULAR DOMAINS, AUSTRALIA IS QUITE GOOD AT THE SUBSEA DOMAIN, AND WE'RE DOING THINGS IN THAT AREA IN PILLAR TWO NOW. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO ROCKET PROPULSION AND THINGS LIKE THAT, YOU CLEARLY HAVE SOME OF THE BEST OPERATORS IN THE WORLD. SO, YOU KNOW, ON THAT BASIS, YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING TO BRING ` BRING IT, AND DON'T FORGET YOUR WALLET. - CHINA IS SAYING, 'YOU JOIN AUKUS,' TO NEW ZEALAND, 'AND THE TRUST IN THE RELATIONSHIP COULD DISAPPEAR.' - OH, THERE'S TRUST IN THE RELATIONSHIP, IS THERE? - WELL, THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. - THEY ALWAYS SAY THAT. - THEY'RE ALSO WARNING THAT OUR TRADE WOULD BE HIT. NOW, YOU'RE A GOOD PERSON TO ANSWER THIS, BECAUSE YOU FACED INCREDIBLE TENSION WITH CHINA AS PRIME MINISTER. HOW SERIOUSLY SHOULD NEW ZEALAND TAKE THAT WARNING FROM CHINA? BECAUSE THEY'VE MADE IT, AND THE CHINESE AMBASSADOR IN WELLINGTON MADE IT VERY RECENTLY. - WELL, THEY SHOULD RESPOND TO THAT LIKE THEY'D STAND UP TO ANY BULLY THAT THREATEN THEIR SOVEREIGNTY ` THAT'S WHAT IT IS. - IS THAT HOW YOU SEE IT? - THAT'S EXACTLY HOW I SEE IT. DON'T DO THIS OR WE'LL HURT YOU ` YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T BECOME MORE THUGGISH THAN THAT. AND SO, I MEAN, IN MY CASE, AS PRIME MINISTER, I FOUND THAT BARGAIN UNCONSCIONABLE. AND I FOUND CHINA'S BEHAVIOUR INTERNATIONALLY DEPLORABLE DURING COVID. YOU KNOW, I MEAN, CIA NOW HAS RELEASED THEIR VIEW ABOUT THIS. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE LAB THEORY IS THE MOST CREDIBLE, UNQUESTIONABLY THE MOST CREDIBLE, AND FRANKLY, A LITTLE LESS DISCONCERTING IN THAT IT WAS COMING OUT OF A WILDLIFE WET MARKET ` WELL, THEY HAPPEN EVERY OTHER WEEK IN MOST PARTS OF SOUTHEAST ASIA, SO THE FACT THAT IT MOST LIKELY CAME OUT OF A LAB ` NOW, I'M NOT SAYING THEY DID IT DELIBERATELY, NO ONE'S SUGGESTING THEY DID IT DELIBERATELY, BUT THEY DIDN'T TELL THE WORLD, AND MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF PEOPLE DIED, ECONOMIES WERE SHUT DOWN. WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE ` IN THE LAG EFFECTS OF HAVING TO LITERALLY TURN YOUR ECONOMY OFF AND THE HARDSHIP THAT IS CAUSED AND THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY THAT CHINA HAS SHOWN FOR THAT GLOBAL CALAMITY IS JUST ASTOUNDING. ANYWAY, WE WERE PREPARED TO STAND UP TO THEM ON ALL OF THOSE THINGS. YEAH, THEY THREW THINGS OUT, THREW A FEW THINGS OUR WAY, BUT WE STOOD OUR GROUND, AND THAT IS ANOTHER REASON WHY I THINK AUSTRALIA IS RESPECTED IN THE, SORT OF, WESTERN HEMISPHERE, BECAUSE WE ARE PREPARED TO DO THAT. - WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO NEW ZEALANDERS LOOKING, WHEN THIS CONVERSATION OF AUKUS COMES UP, AND LOOKING AT THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY AND GOING, 'GEE, DO WE REALLY WANT THAT AT THIS POINT? 'IS TRUMP THE SORT OF LEADER THAT WE WANT TO THROW 'OUR LOT IN WITH?' YOU KNOW HIM VERY WELL. IN FACT, I THINK YOU SPENT NEW YEAR'S EVE WITH HIM IN MAR-A-LAGO, DIDN'T YOU? - YEAH, I DID. AND WE HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP. I'M NOT OVERSTATING IT, BUT, YES, NO, WE WORKED TOGETHER VERY WELL AND IN A FRIENDLY WAY, WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT, I WAS PRIME MINISTER. - AND YOU'VE GOT RESPECT FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP? - WE CONTINUE TO MEET NOW, AND YES, I BELIEVE SO, AND VICE VERSA. AND I SHARE HIS OUTLOOK FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO. AND I THINK THERE ARE GREAT BENEFITS. AND WE'RE ALREADY SEEING IT, IN PLACES LIKE THE MIDDLE EAST AND WHAT I HOPE TO SEE IN UKRAINE AND OTHER PLACES ` A STEADYING HAND THAT BRINGS PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH, WHICH THE WORLD DEARLY NEEDS AFTER THE CHAOS OF THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS, WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE WORLD HAS BASICALLY BURST INTO FLAMES ` WE DON'T NEED MORE OF THAT. ANYWAY, THAT'S GETTING OFF TOPIC, BUT FOR NEW ZEALAND ` LOOK, FOR NEW ZEALAND, YOU HAVE TO MAKE YOUR OWN YOUR OWN CALIBRATION OF THE BENEFITS OF PARTICIPATING IN AUKUS. FORGET WHAT CHINA IS. I MEAN, IF YOU'RE GOING TO BOW TO CHINA'S THREATS, WELL, YOU'VE ALREADY LOST. AND, YOU KNOW, THEY DO NOT RESPECT ACQUIESCENCE; ACQUIESCENCE, THEY MAY CALL TRUST ` I JUST CALL IT SUBSERVIENCE. AND ANY SELF-RESPECTING COUNTRY THAT IS GOING TO BOW TO THAT SORT OF THREAT, YOU KNOW, MIGHT WANT TO LOOK UP WHAT 'COUNTRY' MEANS AND WHETHER THEY STILL QUALIFY UNDER THE DEFINITION. BUT ON AUKUS, IT'S A MATTER OF JUST MAKING THAT, YOU KNOW, SENSIBLE ASSESSMENT OF WHAT CAN YOU BRING; WHAT DOES IT ADD? WHAT IS THE FISCAL COMMITMENT, AND WHAT IS THE WHAT IS THE NET GAIN FOR NEW ZEALAND? THAT'S A PURE NATIONAL INTEREST ASSESSMENT. AND THAT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY RESPECTED IF NEW ZEALAND SAID, 'WE THINK AUKUS IS GREAT, 'BUT WE THINK WE NEED TO, WITH THE RESOURCES WE 'HAVE, TO DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO AND BE PART OF THE BROADER ALLIANCE 'NETWORK HERE IN THIS PART OF THE WORLD ` WE THINK WE NEED TO DO X, 'Y AND Z.' FAIR ENOUGH. BUT IT'S YOUR DECISION, NOT CHINA'S. JUST SO YOU KNOW, AS WELL AS WATCHING Q+A, YOU CAN ALSO LISTEN TO IT AS A PODCAST. WE'RE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS, AND YOU CAN STREAM IT ANY TIME. COMING UP ON Q+A ` IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE MUCH, BUT AS THE GOVERNMENT AIMS TO TURBO CHARGE MINING IN NEW ZEALAND, WE ASK IF THIS STEWARDSHIP LAND HAS MORE CONSERVATION VALUE THAN FIRST MEETS THE EYE. SCRUBLAND AND LEFTOVERS ` THAT'S HOW CABINET MINISTER SHANE JONES HAS DESCRIBED LARGE PARTS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION'S STEWARDSHIP LAND PORTFOLIO. BUT DOES STEWARDSHIP LAND ACTUALLY HAVE MORE ECOLOGICAL VALUE THAN THAT? WHENA OWEN WENT TO THE WEST COAST TO FIND OUT. DENNISTON PLATEAU HAS BECOME A BATTLEGROUND WHERE VALUES CLASH. THE CONSERVATION STEWARDSHIP LAND IS AN ANCIENT TREASURY OF FLORA AND FAUNA. BENEATH IT IS ANOTHER TREASURY ` SOME OF THE WORLD'S BEST COKING COAL TO STOKE THE GLOBAL DEMAND FOR STEEL. THEY'LL DIG AWAY ALL OF THIS SANDSTONE PAVEMENT, PEAT BOG LANDS, TO GET AT THE COAL UNDERNEATH. ON THE PLATEAU, FOREST AND BIRD'S SCOTT BURNETT IS POINTING OUT THE PARAMETERS OF PROPOSED NEW MINES MAKING THEIR WAY THROUGH FAST TRACKING. BATHURST RESOURCES, A SINGAPOREAN AND AUSTRALIAN COMPANY, WANT TO EXTEND TO EXISTING OPENCAST COAL MINES AND BUILD A LINKING ROAD TO TAKE OUT 1 MILLION TONS OF COAL A YEAR. AND THE TRAGEDY OF THAT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD RUIN THIS BEAUTIFUL ENVIRONMENT FOR PENNIES, YOU KNOW. THE MAJORITY OF` ROYALTIES, YOU MEAN? YEAH. THE MAJORITY OF THE PROFITS ARE REPATRIATED OFFSHORE. 30% OF THE OF THE CONSERVATION ESTATE IS STEWARDSHIP LAND. THAT'S 2.7 MILLION HECTARES. AND IN 2022, DOC DECIDED TO REVIEW, TO RECLASSIFY ITS PARCELS OF STEWARDSHIP LAND, BEGINNING WITH LAND HERE ON THE WEST COAST. I'M MAKING A DECISION ON SORT OF THE STEWARDSHIP LAND THAT'S IN THERE. AS CONSERVATION MINISTER, TAMA POTAKA WILL LOOK AT A RANGE OF RECOMMENDATIONS, AND DECIDE WHETHER SOME OF THE 650,000HA OF STEWARDSHIP LAND STAYS THE SAME, GOES INTO NATIONAL PARK, IS GIVEN ANOTHER STATUS OR DISPOSED OF. THE REVIEW HAD STALLED FOR 18 MONTHS. HE'S PICKING IT UP AGAIN. IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS, BUT IT'S ONE THAT ULTIMATELY, AS THE MINISTER, I HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR, TO PROGRESS TO A CONCLUSION RATHER THAN LEAVING THAT HANGING. IT JUST WENT AWAY AND DIED IN THE FILING CABINET, BASICALLY, AND I DON'T SEE ANY VALUE IN RE-ESTABLISHING THAT REVIEW PROCESS, FRANKLY. PATRICK PHELPS HEADS MINERALS WEST COAST. THE STEWARDSHIP REVIEW IS A SIDESHOW, HE RECKONS. HIS ORGANISATION SUBMITTED STRONGLY AGAINST PLACING STEWARDSHIP LAND INTO NATIONAL PARKS. I SEE A WEKA THERE IS AFTER YOUR KEYS, PATRICK. YEAH, I'LL GRAB THOSE. EITHER WAY, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DISPOSE OF OR SELL THE ENTIRETY OF ALL THE STEWARDSHIP LAND BECAUSE IT DOES HAVE SOME CONSERVATION VALUE. BUT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF IT, YOU CAN'T JUST GO AND THROW IT ALL INTO NATIONAL PARK EITHER, WITHOUT SERIOUSLY DIMINISHING WHAT OUR OPPORTUNITIES ARE HERE, ECONOMICALLY. THIS IS ALL STEWARDSHIP LAND, ALL UNDER REVIEW. WHAT'S ITS VALUE? ASK A POLITICIAN. DOC ACTUALLY MANAGES A HUGE AMOUNT OF OTHER LAND, SOMETIMES REFERRED TO AS STEWARDSHIP LAND, WHICH IS NOT THESE PRISTINE ENVIRONMENTS. OFTEN IT'S JUST SCRUBBY LAND. IT'S BEING KIND OF DRESSED UP AS ` OR DRESSED DOWN AS ` THIS, 'OH, IT'S JUST SCRUBBY LAND. IT'S WASTELAND. 'IT'S, YOU KNOW, NOTHING FOR YOU TO WORRY ABOUT.' THE VAST PROPORTION WAS CONSIDERED TO HAVE HIGH VALUES. STEWARDSHIP LAND IS NOT DOC LAND. IS STEWARDSHIP LAND DOC LAND? YES IT IS. SO WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THE MOMENT, WITH THE WAY POLITICIANS ARE DESCRIBING THIS, IN A REALLY DELIBERATE WAY, IS BASICALLY SMOKE AND MIRRORS TOWARDS MINING IN CONSERVATION LAND. LOOK AT THIS. THIS IS ONE OF THE SUNDEWS ` DROSERA ` INSECT-EATING PLANTS. BACK UP ON THE PLATEAU WHERE BATHURST WANT TO MINE, ENTOMOLOGIST BRIAN PATRICK IS ENTHUSING ABOUT HOW PLANTS AND CREATURES LIVE INTERCONNECTED LIVES THERE, AS THEY HAVE FOR MILLENNIA. THE PLANT KILLS THE INSECT AND ABSORBS ALL ITS NUTRIENTS. 12 YEARS AGO, HE DISCOVERED A NEW MOTH, THE AVATAR MOTH, FOUND ONLY ON THE DENNISTON PLATEAU. THIS PLACE CELEBRATES NEW ZEALAND'S UNIQUE ASSEMBLAGE OF BIODIVERSITY FOR THE WHOLE WORLD. THIS IS OUR CONTRIBUTION TO THE WORLD'S BIODIVERSITY. TO OFFSET THE IMPACT OF MINING, BATHURST HAS COMMITTED TO FUNDING PEST CONTROL IN THE KAHURANGI NATIONAL PARK AND PUTTING THE ROCKS AND PLANTS BACK, AS THEY HAVE AROUND THE STOCKTON MINE. SO IF THEY STICK A FEW ROCKS BACK ON THE SURFACE,... NO, NOT GOOD ENOUGH. ...PLANT SOME OF THE TUSSOC... NO? NOPE. THE ECOLOGY IS TOO IMPORTANT. THOUGH I WOULD ABSOLUTELY DENY WHAT THEY'RE SAYING COMPLETELY. THEY COULD NOT RESTORE THIS AREA. IN THE STEWARDSHIP LAND REVIEW, FOREST AND BIRD RECOMMEND, THE PLATEAU IS GIVEN A SCIENTIFIC RESERVE STATUS PROHIBITING MINING. MEANWHILE, MINING WEST COAST'S PATRICK PHELPS HAS A THEORY AS TO WHY THE STEWARDSHIP REVIEW STALLED. IF YOU'VE GOT MANA WHENUA ON THE WEST COAST OPPOSING ANY MORE LAND GOING INTO NATIONAL PARK, WELL, I THINK THAT'S A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL ROADBLOCK RIGHT THERE. MANA WHENUA ON THE WEST COAST ` BOTH POUTINI NGAI TAHU, WHICH IS NGATI WAEWAE AND MAKAAWHIO ` THEY'RE BOTH SUPPORTIVE OF THE MINING INDUSTRY. SO THE BIGGEST PROPORTION OF STEWARDSHIP LAND IN NEW ZEALAND SITS WITHIN THE POUTINI NGAI TAHU TRIBAL AREA. WE WERE KEEN TO TALK TO NGATI WAEWAE'S CHAIR, FRANCOIS TUMAHAI, WHO'S TAKEN AN ACTIVE ROLE IN THE REVIEW OF STEWARDSHIP LAND. HIS NGATI WAWEAE OFFICE TOLD US HE'S A BUSY MAN AND WE'D NEED TO BOOK AN INTERVIEW A MONTH IN ADVANCE. FRANCOIS TUMAHAI IS ALSO A DIRECTOR OF BATHURST RESOURCES. I KNOW PLENTY OF PEOPLE WITHIN THE IWI SPACE OR IWI-SCAPE THAT ARE ACTUALLY GENUINELY KEEN ON QUARRYING AND MINING. HE SAYS RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL FOR IWI ON ANY DISPOSED STEWARDSHIP LAND IS A KORERO DOWN THE TRACK. BEFORE THE REVIEW ASSESSES STEWARDSHIP LAND AROUND THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, TAMA POTAKA WILL MAKE DECISIONS ON THE WEST COAST PARCELS ` THAT WILL BE AROUND MAY 1ST. FIST BUMP. YEAH. BOP! (LAUGHS) WILL THOSE DECISIONS BE SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE? PROTESTERS CHANT: MINING COAL HAS GOT TO GO! IF IT LIMITS MINING, IT'S A YES FROM FOREST AND BIRD'S NICOLA TOKI. IT IS PAYING KIND OF DISRESPECT TO HISTORY, BUT ALSO OUR NATIONAL IDENTITY, TO THINK FOR A SECOND THAT WE WOULD WANT TO DIG SOMETHING UP FOR CHUMP CHANGE WHEN THE GOLDEN GOOSE ARE THESE PLACES THAT PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD TO SEE. (TUI SINGS) JUST LETTING YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE OPTIONS ` AS WELL AS WATCHING Q+A LIVE, YOU CAN CATCH US ON TVNZ+. THAT'S WHERE YOU CAN FIND ALL OF Q+A'S WORK PLUS THE BEST OF TVNZ'S NEWSROOM. AFTER THE BREAK, A PANINI AND A BOWL LATTE ` IT MIGHT MAKE FOR A BIT OF A LAUGH, BUT ONE MP RECKONS COMEDIANS LIKE TOM SAINSBURY NEED BETTER PROTECTION AS THEY POKE FUN AT POLITICIANS. POLITICIANS HAVE ALWAYS FOUND THEMSELVES AT THE SHARP END OF SATIRE, BUT ONE MP BELIEVES THOSE POKING FUN AT POLITICIANS NEED MORE LEGAL PROTECTION. FOR THIS WEEK'S MEMBER'S BILL, WE SPEAK TO THE GREEN MP KAHURANGI CARTER. MY NAME IS KAHURANGI CARTER. I'M A GREEN PARTY LIST MP, AND MY BILL IS THE COPYRIGHT, PARODY AND SATIRE AMENDMENT BILL. I'M HOPING TO ACHIEVE WITH MY BILL TO EMPOWER ARTISTS AND GIVE THEM THAT ARTISTIC EXPRESSION THAT WILL KEEP US IN LINE WITH COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD. CENSORSHIP OF THEIR ART LIMITS THE IMPACT AND THE THOUGHT-PROVOCATION OF THEIR ART. WE WANT TO PROTECT THEIR ABILITY TO CREATE ART WITHOUT THREAT OF BEING SUED BECAUSE OF AN ARCHAIC LAW. # I'M QUITE VAGUE ON POLICIES. # THEY SAY THAT I'M BORING. # YOU JUST HAVE TO LOOK ON INSTAGRAM TO SEE OUR NEW ZEALAND COMEDIANS AND CONTENT CREATORS PROMINENT ON THE GLOBAL STAGE. WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO PRODUCE CONTENT WITHOUT THREAT OF BEING SUED. SOME OF OUR BRIGHTEST STARS COULD GET IN TROUBLE FOR DOING THINGS THAT PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD DO EVERY DAY. MEMES ARE A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHERE ARTISTS ARE AT THREAT OF BEING SUED AND HAVING BIG LEGAL FEES. I DON'T UNDERSTAND EVERY MEME THAT HAS BEEN SENT TO ME, BUT I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS DAMPENING THE CREATIVE PROCESS FOR BEING ABLE TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES FULLY. I'VE BEEN REALLY ENJOYING TALKING TO ALL OF THE PARTIES ABOUT MY COMMON-SENSE LAW THAT IS BRINGING US INTO LINE WITH THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE. THE FEEDBACK HAS BEEN REALLY POSITIVE, SO I'M VERY HOPEFUL THAT THIS LAW WILL GET PASSED. KUA MUTU ` THAT'S Q+A FOR THIS WEEK. FROM THE Q+A TEAM, NGA MIHI KI A KOUTOU ` THANKS FOR WATCHING. HEI TERA WIKI. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY AT 9AM. CAPTIONS BY JASON CONRAN AND FAITH HAMBLYN. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2025.