- ALCOCK: 13 Little St was a two-bedroom stand-alone home on the eastern side of Tirau. Roma Joseph, a 58-year-old woman, resided at the address on her own. (UNSETTLING MUSIC) On the 1st of May 2017, the neighbours were alerted to some thumping noises. (THUMPING REVERBERATES) They saw a male walking up the road. Shortly thereafter, they noticed another male coming in and out of Roma's front door. And then a silver vehicle has reversed out of the driveway. (ENGINE REVS) At the same time, they see an orange glow coming from the dining room/kitchen sort of area of Roma's house. (FIRE CRACKLES) - We received a call to a house on fire in Little St, Tirau at about 3.28am. Initially, when we discovered Roma's body, it was` it was a little bit difficult to tell exactly what the circumstances were. - WARNER: The scene tells us that Roma had a pretty horrific ending. It's obvious that she has been assaulted. - We were investigating a homicide, and it was a violent homicide. - NARRATOR: The murder of Roma Joseph stunned the small rural town of Tirau in Waikato. After four years, her case is still unsolved. - I imagine the person that's done this to Mum has... got a real heavy weight on their shoulders. Um... and so they should. - For the detectives who've been working on this since the beginning, the investigation has always been open. - Well, you become very invested in these type of enquiries, and you wanna see it through to a positive outcome. - Now Cold Case is bringing the investigation team together to review the brutal killing of Roma Joseph. - For me, it's about getting closure for the victim's family and to do what is right by Roma. We haven't been able to do that. (UNSETTLING MUSIC) Captions by Able. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2021 The first time I went to the scene would have been on the 1st of May 2017. The scene was quite badly damaged with the fire, so that was quite frustrating. - The firefighters fought their way through from the back door to the front of the house, where they found Roma. - They've discovered a chair, first of all, and moved the chair, and then they've discovered Roma underneath. The post-mortem revealed Roma had suffered serious injuries to her body, and she had passed away as a result of smoke inhalation. She was still alive when the fire was lit. Physically, Roma was quite a tiny woman. She was 4'10", 147cm. She weighed at 38kg, so very tiny. She was even smaller than her grandchildren. - 'I couldn't believe anybody could do that, cos she's such a tiny lady. 'She's quite private, you know.' There's... didn't think there'd be anybody... that would have that much anger or... I don't know, hate, or whatever it is, to do something to somebody like that. - We learnt that Roma had quite a tough life. She's one of 11 siblings; one of the younger siblings. Her parents had been involved in quite bad domestic violence. All of the children, all of her siblings, were separated out, and they had just recently started to get to know each other. (REFLECTIVE MUSIC) - Mum was two when her mother died. They were all just passed around a lot ` staying with people that didn't treat them right. Wasn't very good memories, really, for her in her childhood. - Roma had married quite young and had four children to her husband. - Yeah, she wanted a family unit cos that was something she never got in her childhood. She didn't really know how to be a mother cos she didn't have a mother to guide her through. Um... so she's... was quite challenging, and us kids were quite (CHUCKLES) challenging, so... yeah. But she did pretty well. Oh, when it was` everything was good, it was good, but there was a lot of domestics and stuff, and that was probably the most challenging thing for her, was... yeah, getting along with Dad, and keeping the house happy, basically. - They did have a lot of violence in the relationship, particularly in the earlier part of their relationship. However, they had been separated for at least 10 years. They got on quite well, the two of them, and would see each other regularly. - Roma had been living at 13 Little St in Tirau for eight years. Her life focused on family and looking after her house. - CHUCKLES: She was a clean fanatic, so... couldn't have anything out of line. Dishes had to be in the certain spot where they go and everything had to be in order. Yeah, she was very fussy, with the inside and outside. You'd be too scared to sit on the seat in case it crinkled up or something. - Roma was house-proud, but an even prouder grandmother. - Well, she was all for her mokos pretty much, so... I feel where she felt she went wrong with us, she was trying to invest in our kids. Mum was basically the only one I'd leave my kids with. (LAUGHS) So, yeah. - Roma's house at Little St was up for sale. She planned on moving in with Kirsty to support her and her five grandchildren. - I actually moved in with Mum while I was going through things with my kids. Uh, went and stayed with her for support. Think a month before that, actually apologised to her for everything. For just being a naughty kid, (LAUGHS) really. Never thought I'd lose Mum at that age. And we had sorta just gotten together and made truce and everything throughout the years ` we were in a good place. - One of the first stages of the investigation was to piece together Roma's last movements. - So on the 29th of April 2017, Roma had two sisters come from out of town to stay for a number of nights, and a number of other siblings had dropped by to have a catch-up at Roma's house. The following day, the family dispersed. She's spent the afternoon presumably at home. In the evening, she has been seen by neighbours collecting her washing from the line, and she has then closed up her curtains, which is normal, and settled in for the evening. So, the next time in interest would have been 3 o'clock in the morning, when neighbours in the area reported hearing thumps or thuds coming from the house. (THUDS REVERBERATE) One of the neighbours has described it as it sounded as though a body part was hitting either the floor or the wall. Both neighbours that reported this have looked at their clocks and stated that it was 3 o'clock in the morning when they were awoken. It was quite scary for the neighbours. They're women living on their own. They had a good view of the front of Roma's house, and both of them have seen a male with a white hoodie walking past her address to Station Rd, where he's turned right. (FOOTSTEPS ECHO) The witnesses both come together. One of them goes to the other witness's house. She goes through the back door cos she's quite frightened. They both see a person stepping in and out of Roma's front door. (DOOR CREAKS) He's walked down the steps, along the front lawn, and has walked up between the hedge and the house. Shortly after that, a silver vehicle has reversed out of her driveway and headed toward Bear St. This vehicle also has a boot scoop on it, and they were able to see that as well. - The strong witness statements from the night gave police a good starting point. - One of the priorities was to investigate the silver vehicle. We understand that a son in Hamilton had a silver vehicle. We visited the son later that day, and that vehicle was not in going order. We explored Roma's previous relationships. We talked to the ex-husband. He had been at home that night in Tokoroa, and doesn't have a vehicle, so when he is travelling from town to town, he relies on other people to transport him or he'll hitch-hike. - Over the course of the investigation, police have looked at five possible suspects. - We've eliminated three persons of interest from this enquiry, and investigations are ongoing in relation to the other two. We don't have all the pieces of the puzzle in this case. I do think about it quite often. Whenever I go through Tirau, I think about the case and then her final moments. - Who would do this to a 58-year-old grandmother? What reason could there be for such violence? - On May the 1st 2017, 58-year-old Roma Joseph was burnt to death in a house fire in Tirau. The fire was deliberately lit, and Roma had already been seriously assaulted. Four years later, new crime manager Detective Inspector Lew Warner is taking a special interest in the case. - When I look at this investigation, the violence has been the extreme. They've gone to some length to destroy any evidence that they may have left at that scene. - Detective Sergeant Garry Hawkins is one of the original investigators, who remains committed to solving Roma's case. - We will get there eventually. It'll be a matter of time, just perseverance. But not only us ` we'll be sort of reliant on other people to` to assist us in our journey. - Shaun Plant was a young detective four years ago and is now Officer in Charge of the file. - Well, I've been involved in a number of homicides, and in the beginning it was obvious who committed these horrible crimes. But with this one here being unsolved, it's incomplete. SIGHS: Yeah. - And Detective Mahara Alcock, who's been on this investigation since day one. - This case is still very active and it needs to be solved. We make time for this case. We make time for this investigation. - Four detectives, one cold case. It's time to reinvestigate the death of Roma Joseph. - Good to sit with you today. Obviously, I've reviewed the main report that's been completed. And from my perspective, this is really solvable. And fact is I'd be disappointed if we didn't end up solving it in the future. I don't have the information that you have, but it'd be really awesome if you can explain to me what you've learnt about the scene and let's see if there's any opportunities. - I guess if we were to start, we'd look at maybe some of the before photos. Roma's house was on the market, and there were a number of photographs that were taken beforehand, and they were fairly recent. - The real estate photos were a good reference after fire had destroyed most of 13 Little St. - Most of the damage was around where her body lay. There was extensive fire in the roof and on the floor as well. The kitchen obviously had a lot of damage too ` it wasn't too far from where her body was located. - The fire was immediately considered suspicious, so a specialist fire investigator was called to help identify the cause of the blaze. - It's really just a step-by-step process of looking at all possible causes of fire and working out if they could've started the fire. Because Roma was in the dining room area and close to the kitchen, we ruled out that no accidental fire had started on the stovetop. Likewise, in the lounge area, there was an inbuilt gas fireplace. We were able to identify that it wasn't plugged into electricity and in fact, there was no gas cylinder on the external side of the house. In this case, there was nothing accidental that could've started this fire. - Fire investigators then started delayering the debris, right back to the floorboards, to determine the origin of the fire. - We were able to find two areas of heavy charring on the floor. One area in the kitchen and a smaller area near where the deceased was found. They couldn't be explained any other way, apart from them potentially being the result of a flammable liquid being used. ESR were later able to confirm that two of the samples they did take did show traces of petrol or the elements that are found inside petrol. - So, Mahara, obviously the post-mortem was carried out on Roma. What did we find out from that? - The post-mortem revealed that she had multiple serious injuries and she passed away as a result of smoke inhalation. So she was still alive at the time of the fire. - How was she positioned when we found her? - Roma was found lying on her back. Her head was facing the kitchen and her feet were facing the front door. She had been quite badly burnt. There was remnants underneath her body of the clothing that she wore. - And also, under Roma's feet was a red-coloured material that, when examined, matched the` the curtains which are on the window in the other room. The other interesting fact ` during the examination, they located a cane chair, which was located in an upside down position on top of Roma, which was quite unusual. - WARNER: So there's a possibility, obviously, the curtain and the chair have been used to try and hide Roma initially. - Well, the chair was` was upside down. The relevance of that, we're not quite sure, but we're still trying to account for the initial noise which alerted everyone to this incident ` the thumping. Whether that's the chair being used to hit Roma, we don't know. - The other theory is that the person who's responsible for this may have put a number of items around Roma as fuel to-to keep the fire going. (UNSETTLING REFLECTIVE MUSIC) - That's a really aggravating component to this-this homicide investigation, isn't it, really? That` That Roma was` She was still alive at the time the fire was lit. - Obviously, she's received significant injuries, and she's quite a small petite lady. So I can't stop thinking about what her last moments of life would have been. Um, I would say quite terrifying. - It would've been difficult for her to defend herself. - Totally. 'The scene tells us that Roma had a pretty horrific ending. 'It's obvious that she has been assaulted.' That's a person that's determined to burn that property and get rid of evidence. - The first thuds that woke the neighbourhood were heard at 3am. Then, for half-an-hour, witnesses watched the activity over the road at Roma's until they saw the fire and reported it at 3.28am. (DOOR HANDLE CLICKS) - The two key witnesses across the road, they'd provided quite a detailed description of what they saw that night, haven't they? - They had seen a` a person walking from the Bear St end of Little St towards Station Rd. This person was described as having a white hoodie on their head and possibly a black top over the top of that hoodie. - Have we identified that person? - No, we've got some suspicions as to who that person could be, but, uh, we have no positive identification at this time. - We were informed by a number of people that a local man who lived around the corner from Roma's address often would walk around the streets at night-time. - He had some, uh, history uh, with Roma in the past. - Enquiries established that he had gone to a local liquor shop and purchased some liquor during the afternoon of the Sunday, the 30th. And, as you can see here, he's wearing a white hoodie with a black top on. - But we still can't 100% categorically say he's the person walking past the scene address, can we? - We've interviewed him a number of times, but he's been cooperative, to a point. - The local man says he heard the thumping and got up to investigate, but says he didn't walk as far as Roma's house. - We believe that this person could have been one of the persons that was seen outside Roma's house that night. Um... As such, he remains a person of interest. - We did get a number of clothing items from our local man here, and we have had them forensically examined and no accelerants ` there's no forensic evidence from the scene from Roma herself. - So that's quite pertinent, too, isn't it? - That's very interesting, yes. We believe that the likelihood of him being involved is diminished. There is a question mark over his account, however, and we would like to find out what his movements were that night. - Police believe he may have more information about that night. - If we can establish who that person is, we would just love to sit down and talk to them and work out what's happened. - However, the witnesses reported seeing more than one person at Roma's property that night. - Just looking at the scene again, we're actually talking about two people ` a person walking on the footpath and then another person inside the fence between the fence and the house. - So we can't really discount the possibility of two people being involved? - No, we can't. - ALCOCK: We understand that the person who was stepping in and out of the door has then walked up the side of the house. The witnesses have stated that they saw a silver vehicle backing out from Roma's address on to the` Little St and then turning up toward Bear St. - From reading the report, obviously, we've got a person of interest that's associated to that vehicle? - It was, um, only a few days into the investigation that a member of the public came into the station and offered a name as possibly having an issue uh, with Roma. - Once we started looking at this person of interest, our police records showed that this person had a trespass order issued against him by Roma. - Yeah, it was encouraging. It was encouraging to receive a piece of information like that and have a focus in another area. - Four days after Roma Joseph's murder and the arson at 13 Little St in May of 2017, a member of the public came to police with the name of someone Roma had concerns about. So much so, she sought a trespass order. - WARNER: Tell me about this man and the connection between him and Roma. - This person of interest is known to Roma's wider family. She's had him at her house in the past, and as a result of some advances that she wasn't happy with, she has taken the extra step to actually trespass him from her address at the advice of other family members. - She found it hard putting the trespass on at first. She explained to me the actual situation of things, and I told her to go ahead and do it. You know, that` that's not acceptable behaviour. - The trespass notice had been in effect for nearly two years and was due to expire eight weeks after Roma's death. - It was actually gonna run out, which was concerning her. She wanted to renew that. She was absolutely terrified. She, um, made sure the house was locked. Only I knew` like, family knew where the keys were. - On the same day the investigation team learned of the trespass order, there was more new information discovered about the night of the fire. - So, it was brought to our attention that a silver vehicle had pulled into the Tirau service station during the night. The person of interest was seen to emerge from the driver's side of that vehicle. That gave us very good reason to do further investigation into this person, what he was doing in Tirau, and where he was going, who he was with. - And what type of vehicle does he own? - He had a silver Honda Torneo that had a boot scoop on the back of it. - PLANT: So I've got a photo at BP Tirau on the 30th of April at 2303. After that, we were able to track its movements in the area. - CCTV captured from all over the region was able to build a comprehensive picture of where and when the silver car with the rear spoiler had been immediately before and after Roma's death. - We know earlier on in the day that our person of interest had travelled through Tirau and been at an uncle's place in Cambridge and had come back through Tirau later on in the day. - The silver car then travelled to Matamata, where the person of interest was seen at McDonald's before going on to meet with a friend. - So, that associate of our person of interest was living in Matamata at the time. They've spent a bit of time together in Matamata and have come back through to Tirau at one point as well. - At the BP in Tirau, the man realises he's lost his wallet. He and his friend drive back to Matamata, where he finds it at McDonald's. After that, he drops his friend off at home and the driver of the silver car is on his own. - At 0104 on the 1st of May 2017, we see the person of interest with the silver vehicle at the Z petrol station in Matamata. Uh, appears to be having vehicle difficulties with it overheating. - Then, a silver car with a rear spoiler is seen driving through Tirau around 1.33 in the morning on May the 1st. It's there again at 3.28, and then again at 4.33. - Obviously, this vehicle's travelled in and around Tirau. Was there any reason for that person to be doing that, do we know? - It often looks like the driving around is quite aimless. It's` Doesn't` He's changing direction quite a bit, especially after the` the fire has ignited. - It seems erratic, doesn't it, because he's travelling south one minute and then he's heading north and then he's going into the back streets. Uh, there's no logic to his journey if you look. - That's right. 'We didn't speak to him for some time.' We wanted to get together all available information regarding him and his movements that night and build up an accurate picture before we actually approached him to get his story. - Garry was one of the two detectives who carried out that interview with the person of interest. - The first time we spoke with him, he created probably more questions than` than answers. He agrees that that was him in the service station in Matamata. Vehicle overheats. From there, he went direct to Hamilton, to an associate's address. - We were able to establish that this was not true. - WARNER: Obviously, we've got the vehicle travelling back to Tirau after dropping off the associate. How do we know that that's the same vehicle that's come back to Tirau? - Even though the silver car in Tirau looked the same, some of the CCTV images weren't clear. Investigators needed to be sure they could distinguish the vehicle of interest from any other silver car. - This person of interest had been found driving his vehicle while being disqualified, and his vehicle was, um... impounded. Through the courts, we were able to get permission to go and examine that vehicle. - I was asked if I could go down and look at a vehicle which had been impounded, which I did, and then recorded everything I could see of that vehicle that, to me, was` was unique. What kind of wheels it had, the labels in the back window. The filler cap was unique. I also noted that there was some delamination of the paintwork on the roof. These are things that can help identify a vehicle when you see it somewhere else. - Police had already compiled hours and hours of CCTV footage from April the 30th and May the 1st where a silver car with a spoiler had appeared in the area. That footage was then sent to Ian. - The police are looking to say, 'Can we track a vehicle past each camera?' My job is to say, 'Is there anything which will exclude it from being the vehicle of interest?' It could be that there is a feature that you should be able to see in one image and you can't see it. And if you can't explain it, then you can say, well, they're not the same vehicle. - The unusual paint delamination on the roof of the impounded car gave Ian Calhaem a distinct reference point. By mapping its unique shape, he was able to compare the markings on the silver car seen driving around Tirau in the early hours of May the 1st. - Yes, there was a match. Because markings on a roof are likely to be unique, then the impounded vehicle was very likely to be the one I could see in the video. - So we can say that the vehicle that was in the BP service station prior to it going to Matamata is the same vehicle that returned to Tirau. - Yes, that's correct. We've got an image here at 4.33, which is the vehicle turning into Rose St from State Highway 1. And that shows quite clearly the delamination on the roof in Tirau. So that vehicle was in Tirau at 4.33 after the fire. - Cold case investigators have confirmed the silver car driving around Tirau before and after the fire at 13 Little St is the same silver car that belongs to the man Roma had trespassed from her home. The team now looks more closely at the car's movements that night by mapping its path from the four CCTV cameras on the main road of Tirau. - ALCOCK: There's a number of cameras around that we were able to predict where that vehicle might be heading, whether it's going to continue along the main street, for instance, or whether it's going to turn off on a particular street. - The four cameras quickly revealed the silver car was driving erratically around Tirau that night. - We're aware that the silver vehicle has come back into Tirau at about 1.30 in the morning and has driven past the Caltex service station, heading in a southerly direction. It's seen driving past the Merchant of Tirau. Following that, it's reappeared again at 1.45 up at the Notting Hill camera, so it appears that the vehicle's actually doubled back around, possibly through a back street. - And in the centre of all those streets is Roma's home. - The sightings of the silver car between 1.33 and 1.46 in the morning also coincide with another phase of the investigation. - HAWKINS: We did quite a bit of work around the person of interest's cellphone number and was quite interesting that there was a flurry of calls ` five calls between 1.42 and 1.59, uh, which is, uh, approximately an hour prior to Roma's death. The origin of those and the content of that I don't wanna go into, but collectively together, the people who were rung and the content sorta made us believe that, you know, something was going on in the mind of our person of interest at that time, which was concerning. We can also establish through technical means that those five phone transactions originated within the Tirau township area. - That means police can place both the person's car and their cell phone in Tirau around the time of Roma's death. There's also one more disturbing detail that police are prepared to reveal about that cell phone. - After the last phone transaction at 1.59, the phone disappeared from the telecommunications network completely and hasn't resurfaced to this day. - The team returns to the CCTV images to look for the next sighting of the silver car after 1.46. But there's a revealing gap in information. - WARNER: So, it is of interest, I see at 1:46 is the last, well, eye sighting of the vehicle, and then the next time is, I think, 3. - 3.19. - 3.19, sorry. - So we've got a gap of activity from between 1.59 when the phone was last used right through to 3.19, when the vehicle has reappeared, driving down Okoroire St back on to State Highway 1. - Does the CCTV capture anything else significant in that period of time? - PLANT: It captures, uh, a pedestrian walking along State Highway 1 past the Caltex and towards Roma's home at about 2.12am in the morning. Roughly an hour later, at 3.18am, a person who we believe is the same pedestrian is seen running back and turns into Okoroire St. At 3.19, our vehicle of interest is seen speeding out of Okoroire St. - Could the pedestrian be the driver of the silver car? - So the person that we see walking down the main road toward Okoroire St, what can we get from that footage? - Uh, the person seen here has their trousers tucked into their shoes or boots. - So, our person of interest, when he's sighted inside the BP service station, his jeans are tucked into his boots as well? - HAWKINS: They are. Yeah. - The imagery expert, he's obviously viewed the footage? - Yes. - Ian Calhaem also found there was nothing about the pedestrian's clothing that excluded him from being the driver of the silver car. But he also noticed an extra detail. - What I could observe from those images was that the person was walking with a... what appeared to be a limp. There was a short step and a long step, so that` that was fairly distinctive. - He compared the gait of the pedestrian to the driver of the silver car, who was captured on CCTV walking around the service station earlier that evening. - You can't say that it's the same person, but you can say that there is nothing that would exclude it from being the same. - What you're describing, the walking, obviously ` long, short, long, short strides. - The expert's saying that it's similar. - Right. - It assists us to try and, um... - ... piece together. - And clarify the timings and the sightings so far. - Even though the pedestrian could be the driver of the silver car, at this stage, it can't be proved. However, the timings are a huge flag to the police team. So too are the movements of the silver car. When it reappears at 3.19, it should pass by the Rose St camera a few seconds later, but it doesn't. - The only direction it could've taken is down Station Rd, which is towards Roma's place. - WARNER: That's right. - Yeah. - This does suggest to me that the person has possibly returned to Roma's home. There has been contention around why the witnesses across the road have not seen that vehicle enter that address. The witnesses have gone to their back door to meet each other, at which time this has provided the vehicle of interest an opportunity to drive into Roma's home without being seen. - That's where we've gotta be very mindful of keeping an open mind about what we're seeing and hearing. So, if we go back to that vehicle after 3.29. - Again, we know that that vehicle has driven around Tirau, appearing to circle around Roma's address. - At 3.28, as the witnesses are calling the fire service, the silver car is captured on the Notting Hill camera travelling north. But just 60 seconds later, it's captured on the same camera travelling south. - At 3.28, the vehicle was on the extreme left of the road. If it carried on in that path, it would have gone up High St, where you get a view overlooking the houses. And then 3.29, it was travelling in the opposite direction on the main road. If we assume that that route was taken, that would fit the times. - WARNER: It's interesting to me because I know where High St is and how it relates, and, actually, it's called High St for a reason ` you're actually up high. If you were looking towards Roma's place, it would give you sight of what's actually taking place there. - Is it possible he stood and watched the fire? The next time the silver car is spotted in Tirau is between 4.16am and 4.39am, when, again, it appears to be circling the township. - Those car movements are very unusual. I'm struggling to find an innocent explanation for some of the movements, to be fair. But at this particular time, we cannot 100% say that is the vehicle that reversed out of Roma's house. - Investigators have been able to confirm the silver car driven by the person of interest has been in Tirau both before and after the fire. However, they cannot confirm that same car was the one seen leaving 13 Little St at 3.28am. But as police close in, will the driver of the car reveal any crucial details? - WARNER: I'm aware that the person of interest has been interviewed on at least two occasions. - HAWKINS: In the first interview, it was, uh, information gathering for us as well because it was relatively earlier on in the` in the enquiry, so we were able to go away and do a lot of work around that and then come back to the second interview, where we were armed with a lot more information. The fact that we knew that he drove into Tirau, that was a real problem for our person of interest. Uh, that's where he became very agitated, very uncomfortable and refused to talk to us further. - There is still another avenue for the cold case team to re-examine. For the first time, police are prepared to reveal details around the forensic evidence gathered from the scene. - So given the fact that it was a fire, there was not a lot of forensic evidence from the outside. However, we can say that we've found four blood smears on the door frame, near the handle into the door. - When those blood smears were examined by ESR, one in particular revealed a key piece of evidence. - POWER: The DNA results from the blood stain indicate the majority of DNA had originated from the deceased. However, there was also a small amount of male DNA also detected in that sample. - Scientists carried out a specific Y-STR test, which focuses solely on male DNA and ignores any female DNA that might be present. - We obtained a full male DNA profile using the Y chromosome test from one of the four blood stains from the doorjamb. - That means ESR can compare the DNA sample found on the door against any sample submitted for comparison. But there are complications. - One of the limitations of the Y-DNA system or testing is that the Y-DNA is passed essentially unchanged down a paternal lineage. So a male will have the same DNA as his father and son. - Police provided ESR with reference DNA for the person of interest, but also a small number of male family members. - So the Y-STR DNA profile we obtained from the bloodstain on the door frame indicated the DNA could've come from the suspect, but equally could've come from one of the elimination people. - So the DNA links the person of interest to Roma's address. But that DNA could also belong to any male member of his family. - WARNER: Obviously, we discussed the fact that that DNA could be a number of persons. What enquiries have we made around that? - We've spoken to all the possible people who could've contributed to that DNA, but, to date, there are certain members that we can't eliminate. - We're talking about a small number of family members? - Correct. - And what we also know, and history will show us, is that science often catches up, so there's a significant opportunity in the future. This case is very close to being solved. It's just about getting that small amount of evidence that can push it in the right direction. I mean, it'd be outstanding if we could just give some closure to Roma and to Roma's family. - Until that happens, Roma's family are left with unanswered questions, and just a few mementos that could be salvaged from the fire. - Oh, this is the rock she used to, um, have under her pillow. It was calming and meant to be something for dreams and that, so I knew it wouldn't be far from her bed somewhere. That was the first thing I found when I walked in the room. I was happy as. (LAUGHS) You know, had so` still something, and the photo albums. I think about her a lot on, like, holidays, Christmases and that. When I'm going to bed, I tend to think about her. At night, when it's quiet. Yeah, or if I smell something that reminds me of her, yeah, will just start thinking about her. Janola makes me think of her. (LAUGHS) A lot. (CHUCKLES) (BROODING MUSIC) I did a lot of counselling. Yeah, find I have to go to them quite a lot. Cos I'll be all right one minute, and then out of nowhere, I'll just get really angry or I'll be crying ` a crying mess. Till I went to counselling and they explained to me the situation. Like, this is the cycle of grieving and that, and when somebody's murdered and there's somebody out there that hasn't been made accountable for it, you got no closure, so you just go round in circles. My older kids know someone's done that to their nan. They ask a lot of questions about have they got the person, and when are they gonna arrest them? When do they go to` you know, those sort of questions they ask. But I have to just tell them, you know, it's- we have to wait for the police to do their thing and just... that's it. It's all we can do, basically. - After reviewing the case, the cold case team is confident that day will come. - There has been an exceptional amount of hard work done around what's taken place, and the way this is moving, I have every confidence in the future there will be a person or persons before the court for what's happened here. - ALCOCK: Well, I think this is` it's very promising, actually. It's good to sit down with everyone again and go through some of these things that we investigated at the time. And I-I feel quite confident that we will get the outcome that is deserved for this person who's done this to Roma. - HAWKINS: You know, someone has lost their life here. It deserves the attention in order to find a positive resolution. I believe there's someone out there, at least one person, that will be able to assist us going forward with this enquiry. - I guess we're appealing to the person who's done this terrible thing as well just to do the right thing and hand themselves in. It's time. - Well, you become very invested in these type of enquiries and you wanna see it through to a positive outcome. We can do so much, but we also need the eyes and ears of the community and the public to help us out and put together those little pieces that they may not think is important, but it may be very relevant to our case. - WARNER: What I have learnt over many, many years is that I haven't seen a policeman yet that doesn't think about victims or care about victims. And that's one of the reasons we are policemen is we're trying to do the right thing. Yeah, I'm`I'm very confident that at some stage the person that's responsible, or persons responsible, will be made accountable for what's happened. (BROODING MUSIC) Captions by Able. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2021