- You see, Huntly's just a little brother to Hamilton. It's the place that everyone sort of passes through, you know, just on your way. You just stop in for a little bite to eat ` you know, a bit like me. (LAUGHTER) I'm single, quick, easy. So, you know, ladies, if you need a bit of Huntly on your way to Hamilton... Kia ora. I'm Joe Daymond. You may or may not have heard of me. My friends call me Joey D, but really hot girls call me 'New phone, who this?' (CHUCKLES) But that's not important right now. What is important is that I've teamed up with Kara Rickard, and together, we're like the ultimate search engine. - We're going to leave no stone unturned as we try and find the real story... behind our country's place names. (SIGNS SWOOSH) (SIGNS CLATTER) www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2022 (DING!) (RELAXED URBAN MUSIC) - I'm in Huntly ` famous for its power station, its mighty awa, and the architectural wonder that is the DEKA sign. It's time to flip the script on Huntly. I want to find out the original Maori place name for this cracking little town. - And I'm in Whakatane. I wanna learn about the korero about this Maori place name that stood the test of time. Could this ingoa inspire even more change i enei ra? Let's get the name right. - Huntly doesn't really kind of conjure up anything kind of exotic, you know? You know, you don't kind of go, 'Well, whanau, guess what? We're going to Huntly this` you know, for our Christmas holidays.' - It's a crack-up place, little old Huntly. Don't know where the name comes from, though. - The crackers? Is it named after the Huntley and Palmers crackers? - I have very good associations to Huntly as a place ` not the place name, but good people come from Huntly. (BIKE BELL DINGS) - So why is this place called Huntly? Hopefully Huirama Matatahi, chairman at Waahi Paa, can help. Where does the name Huntly even come from? - Oh, bro, from Scotland, I'm told. Back in the day, there was a postmaster that come over here, by the name of James Henry, and he started using the seal that he brought from his hometown, and it had Huntly on it. So all of the envelopes that he was sending out from the post shop... - Oh. ...had the seal with Huntly on it, and, I mean, that's the long and short end of the story. It's done. From then on, it became Huntly, and so, you know, some people might say that we're just a rubber stamp. (CHUCKLES) - So if this town was stamped with the name Huntly, what was this area called originally? What was the original name for this area? - Yeah, the original name for the place is Rahui Pokeka, bro. Rahui Pokeka is from a time long ago. It stems back to a guardian of the area, and his name was Te Putu. The staple diet down here is eels ` tuna, and there came a time where the people overfished that stock. Te Putu, being the guardian that he was, called the people in together at a particular point on the river, and put a stake in the ground, and then he said he was putting a rahui on the place ` sort of a ban on the fishing areas. - Yeah. - And he marked that rahui with a stake, and he knocked the stake into the ground and said, 'The rahui will last as long as the stake stays above the ground. 'So I'll come back every day, I'll hit the stake, and then, as it slowly moves down, 'we get closer to the lifting of this rahui.' (PUKEKO SQUAWKS) - MADELEINE SAMI: And the eels grew back, and they were bountiful, because that good man just went, 'Yo, taihoa. 'We need to chill here. 'The eels ` they got no one to have sex with, 'and therefore we're gonna starve.' Smart guy. - That's the rahui part. The second part of the name is Pokeka. There's three ways that that's sort of explained. One is the stake itself. The other is the Pokeka korowai that` that our chief Te Putu wore. - Right. - And then the other is sort of at the end of the story, where a haka is performed. - I can't wait to experience the last part of the story myself. It turns out that Te Wharekura o Rakaumanga is the place to do this, where the name and the story behind Rahui Pokeka has been immortalised in the school haka. Wassup? - Wassup? - Kia ora. - Show me what you got, then. (CHATTER) - (GRUNTS) (ALL PERFORM HAKA) - E kore tenei whakaoranga e huri ki tua o aku mokopuna! - This haka, our tamariki ` our children, learn it from kohanga through to school. It is a prophetic saying from the second Maori king, King Tawhiao, where he talks about ensuring that our house is built and fashioned with all of our traditional knowledges, and then we move into the Rahui Pokeka story. - ...kei nga topito o te ao! Ko nga humeka, ko nga kamura... - And then at the end of the haka, it talks about the future and how we should sustain the ways that we live and that we operate, to ensure that that can continue in the time of our grandchildren and our grandchildren after that. - Hi! - So the name Rahui Pokeka definitely has mana in this area, but what about the name Huntly? (TRAIN HORN BLARES) Tell me your thoughts on the name Huntly. - It's Pakeha. It's a postman or a postcard or whatever the story is about it. - (LAUGHS) - But it's also` it doesn't reflect who we are as a people. - Oh, this is my hometown. I've been here ever since day one. - Oh yeah? - Love the place. - Yeah, I don't really know where that's from, actually. - Huntly. - But I've always just known Rahui Pokeka. - And you still just refer to it as` - Rahui Pokeka, or 828. - Yeah. - Me personally, I prefer Rahui Pokeka. - Yeah. - What a beautiful name for a place. - TAMMY DAVIS: I mean, it's way better than Huntly, that's for sure. - 828, or, uh... Look, I wanna be honest, I don't think we need to worry about a name change in Huntly. - I know Huntly's gotten a lot of stick in the past for being a joke. - The media are really good about telling this story about us, but also what they don't highlight is the beauty that our community bring too. - Everyone's sort of tight-knit, and everyone knows everybody, sticks together. - Yeah, it seems like it. (CAR HORN HONKS) - Yeah. - You've already got two toots since we've been here. I've been here 10 seconds, eh? Do you think a name change would change the image of the town? - Ka whakae au kua pena te ahuatanga o te ra, ki te kore ko te ingoa takea mai o nga tupuna, ka kore he whakamarama. Heoi ano, kei a matou te mana o Rahui Pokeka ko ta matau hononga ki nga whakamarama o Rahui Pokeka ka whakamana i to tatou kanohi ki roto i tenei ao haere ake nei. - Negative connotations are attached to names like Huntly. Rahui Pokeka ` isn't that prettier? - The conversation that quite often comes up is gender equality and women being acknowledged in spaces where they are. My dad's Maori; my mum's Fijian. So when I used to hear conversations when I was younger, that women were often undermined and struggled to really have their voice heard ` wasn't happening at my house. My mum ran the place. I'll tell you the age I stopped being scared of my mum ` 25. (LAUGHTER) - KARA RICKARD: I au e hikoi ana i te whenua ko te nuinga o nga ingoa he ingoa tane, i tapaina ranei e te tane. - MADELEINE SAMI: Yeah, all these European place names ` they're all named after men. Which is just... it's just sad. Cos women's names are pretty. Honestly, Madeleine ` there's a lot of places named Madeleine in France, so I can't complain. I got a lot of places named after me. I got a little cake, even. - There are people who go, 'Oh yeah, but these men went to war, 'and they did this. They did all the hard work.' I'm like, 'Who's holding the house down at home?' It's all the wahine. - Engari ano a Whakatane, i tapaina ki nga pukenga o tetahi wahine whakahirahira. Kei te mana whenua nei a Pouroto Ngaropo te whanuitanga o nga whakamarama. He aha te purakau mo te ingoa Whakatane? - Ko te purakau o te ingoa Whakatane i ahu mai i te kuia nei a Wairaka, ko te Kuia nei a Wairaka me ki he Tapairu, tino tapu tenei wahine. I hara mai i runga o te waka o Mataatua, mai Mauke, ki Rarotonga, ka tae mai ki konei ki Aotearoa. Kei te wahi e tu nei taua ka heretia te waka ki te toka kei reira e tu ana, ka haere nga tane ki te whenua nei ki te kimi kainga, ia ratou e mahi ana i o ratou mahi, ko nga wahine me nga tamariki i runga tonu i te waka o Mataatua e moe ana. Pohehe ana ratou kua heretia kahatia te waka ki te toka, engari kare kau, kare roa ana ka makere mai te taura i herengia ai te waka ki te toka nei, katahi ka rere atu ki te moana ra noa. Ka tu ake a Wairaka ka titiro haere, 'Huh, 'ara nga tane anei te iwi. 'Ma wai ratou e whakaora?' E tera wa kaere` - 'Maku, maku!' - Ae, mana, mana ma Wairaka ke, na te mea kare kau nga tane i reira, no reira ka tikina atu ia i te hoe, ka timata a Wairaka ki te hoe i te waka, hei oranga mona, hei oranga mo te waka, hei oranga mo ratou katoa. Whakataukitia ake nei, 'Kia Whakatane ake au i ahau' ` homai ki au te kaha kia ora ai te waka, kia hoki mai te waka ki te toka, ki te whenua, kia ora te iwi katoa. 'Kia Whakatane ake au i ahau' ` mai ra noa, na Wairaka tera korero, mai a ia heke iho, heke iho ki tenei ra. Hence the name... Whakatane. - Whakatane. - Like, honestly, bro, my daughters who whakapapa to Whakatane love that story. There's probably many stories like that. It's just that they haven't been documented. Wairaka did that. What does it tell our young wahine? It tells them that they can do anything that a man can do. - KARA RICKARD: No reira, he mana nui to te ingoa me nga korero tuku iho. Ma te ingoa nei a Whakatane e ora tonu ai a Wairaka me ona tatai whakapapa. Mau ana te ringa o Wairaka ki te hoe, koia tera te orokohanga mai o tenei ahuatanga o te wahine hoe waka. How would you fullas describe the wahine of Whakatane? - They're very strong. - Powerful. - And they have a lot of aroha as well. - Growing up, did you often hear the story of Wairaka and what she did? - Definitely. Those were all part of the stories of our old people. Those stories were always told. - Do you think it's important that we acknowledge our wahine in our place names? - Ooh, definitely. - I think if we're gonna start thinking about renaming place names and honouring people who have done amazing things, it can be more than just white men. (MELLOW ELECTRONIC MUSIC) - Do you reckon lots of people in Whakatane actually know the story of Wairaka and why the town's called Whakatane? - Um... more are aware now. You know, cos we've got all our kura kaupapa, it's in the curriculums now. - Be cool to have a tupuna like Wairaka as a strong hononga. - Oh, definitely. It's definitely in the blood. - Yeah. - I could comfortably sit here and spiel out so many female names who have been pioneers and trailblazers in our life who didn't get acknowledgement for all the hard yards that they fought for, like Whina Cooper, you know, like Mira Szaszy, like all our kuia. - And we have such awesome sportspeople that come out of here. - Yeah, Lisa Carrington needs, like, a road or something named after her. - Yep. She's a descendant. (CHUCKLES) - Cool now that more people want to get into it, because it's more opportunities. - Yeah. It's the culture too. - Yeah. - (WHOOPS) Go one and two, all leaning left. Lean left, everyone. - Wairaka was a formidable wahine, and the legacy of what she did now lives on forever in the name Whakatane. I think it's about time we had more places named after incredible wahine like her. - Name some places after chicks, man. I feel like there's a Kiri Te Kanawa Drive somewhere. - So when I used to work in an office and I didn't want my Pakeha boss to know where I was going, I would just pronounce the name correctly. I'd be like, 'Nah, I'm not off to Tow-po, I'm of to Taupo.' And he'd be like, 'Oh, far out, you're off overseas.' - Pronouncing te reo names ` it's difficult for some people. Change is hard for them ` fear of what is different to them or new to them. - I can't help myself. I do correct people, but I think, at the very least, if people are making an effort, that's good. - JOE DAYMOND: A lot of our Maori place names are not new to us, but often get mispronounced, which can cause problems. However, radio ad man Dave Ward had problems with not mispronouncing a name. All right, Wardie, tell us a bit about your story, bro. - I was doing a bit of voice work, and it was, uh, like, once a week you get 10 scripts, you go and you belt them all out. I'd been doing it for a long time, and this particular time I was given an instruction on the script that said they wanted me to say Waimate, but they wanted me to say ` it was written in the instructions, 'We want you to say it the white way.' So, 'Why-mattee'. I just said, 'I'm not doing it. This...' 'Oh well, that's what the customer wants.' I said, 'Oh, with respect, I don't care what the customer wants. 'I'm not going to lend my voice and my profession to this low-level racism.' So, anyway, I took a picture of that script and I tweeted it, and I tweeted Taika Waititi. It was about the same time that he was talking about how racism is still prevalent in New Zealand. He retweeted it, and it just went ` (IMITATES EXPLOSION). 95% of the feedback that I received was really nice, but the 5 or 10% that wasn't was absolutely venomous. - Yeah. - In my experience working in radio, there are businesses that want to make ads, but they want it pronounced as 'Tow-po', not Taupo. And I think people just need to get with the program and just` if that's how it's pronounced, then that's how it should be pronounced. You don't get your own pronunciations of something. There's one way to say it, and that's how you say it. - If you go around calling one of our greatest ever rugby players 'Bew-den Barrette', people are gonna kick off, right? - Yeah. - I think at the point that you are willingly mispronouncing a name, then you've crossed the line into arrogance and ignorance. - So Dave Ward lost voice work for refusing to mispronounce a name. But why is it so important to pronounce Maori names correctly? Hopefully language consultant Te Ataahia Hurihanganui can help. Why do you believe it's important to pronounce Maori names correctly? - I think, like any name in any language, pronouncing it correctly means that you're capturing its identity. With a name, especially a te reo Maori name, often they've been purposefully created to capture a moment in time. - Yeah. - A whole lot of history is lost as soon as you're not pronouncing it correctly. Sometimes it's a story; sometimes it's a connection of a person or peoples... - Yeah, true. - ...to that story. And as an oral language, part of transfer, recording, storing knowledge, is being able to say things aloud so that it's moved from one generation to the next. - I'm interested to find out just how good the average Kiwi is at pronouncing te reo place names. - Tarra-rua. - Tararua. - Tararua. - Oh, nice. - Nice, bro. - Tararua. - Tararua. - Tararua. - Remu...taka. - Yeah. Ka pai. - Bro, just give it a go. - Remetaka. - There's no shame in giving it a go. - Remutaka? - Remutaka. - Yeah. Beautiful. - Tarratahi. - Taratahi. - Used to call it Tarra-tie. What does 'Tarra-tie' mean? - Well, nothing. - Is it? Nothing. It's not a word. - No, not a word at all. Taratahi ` lots and lots of meaning, so, uh... - What does it mean? - Well, Taratahi was the original name of Carterton... - Ah. Yeah. - ...and the wider Carterton region and area. Yeah. And of course we all know it as the pub, right? So... - Yeah, yeah. Used to go there. - The 'Tarra-tie' pub. Yeah. - It's not easy for everyone. Like, people don't have the same ear when they listen. There are different ways of making sounds, and that can be hard. - What work do you do to help people pronounce Maori names correctly? - Focusing on that physicality's always a good starting point, and simplifying it. So instead of looking at all the letters and all the sound combinations, focusing on those five vowel sounds might be the first thing that you do. - Mm. - Master that, and then move to the next thing. - Tauwharenikau. - Boom. - Tauwharenikau. - Tauwharenika... kow? - Nikau. - I'd call it Taherr-anikow. - Tauwhare...nikau? - Yeah, that's it. - Nice. - Kau like 'tau'. So, Nikau. - Nikau... Tau-whare-nikau. - A lot of the sounds in te reo Maori are in English, and I think when people are told that, that you've probably done it before, makes it a little bit easier. And so part of that is shedding the stress and pressure of it all, right? We're being OK with being vulnerable. - That's` that's been a massive one, cos so many people have said... - Yeah. - ..that, like, they acknowledge the Maori name of a lot of places, but refuse to say it purely because they don't have the confidence. - I think it's important for those of us that are able to quite easily pronounce the names and use the names to really empower those who want to try. - And that's Masterton, Whakaoriori. - Whakaoriori. - Your turangawaewae. - Ae. - Whaka... - Ori... ori. - Ori... Whakaoriori. - Yeah! That's it. You got it. - Whaka-aury-aury. - ROLLS Rs SLIGHTLY: Oriori. - What did I say? - Now ` oriori as opposed to 'aury-aury'. - ROLLS Rs SLIGHTLY: Oriori. - Yeah, that's it. - There we go. - You know, we grew up saying these words in a certain way, but the challenge to people like me is ` can you change that? Can you learn? - I do think once we've learned, we can all pronounce te reo Maori words and names correctly, easily. The hardest thing to change is the habit. - You gotta make an effort. You're living here. Find out about the place and how things are pronounced. It's just courtesy. - New Zealanders, Kiwis, go everywhere around the world, bro, and they try. They'll go to France, bro, and study French for six months. 'I just want to go there and get it right.' (CHUCKLES WRYLY) Yeah, of course you do. Why is it so hard for you to do it at home? - MADELEINE SAMI: My hope would be that if you live in New Zealand, you can speak Maori and English. It will enrich our culture in general. - GUYON ESPINER: It's not because it's woke or because it's morally virtuous. It's just more bloody interesting too, isn't it? And it's just like where we are, and it's reflecting a more honest, authentic version of Aotearoa. And who wouldn't want to be part of that? - You never get worse at something; you always get better at something the more and more you do it. So, yeah. - JORDAN RIVER VAHAAKOLO: When we look at the past, sometimes all we pull out of the kete there is, like, the bad stories, or the things that we need to work on, or the trauma. But I think also in the past when we look back, there are beautiful examples of us being able to work together and to, not just show respect, but to... see each other in ourselves. And I hope that, moving forward, this is a country that can do that. I think we're extremely capable of it. And I'm always gonna remain hopeful for that. Yeah. (INSPIRING STRING MUSIC) - You know, what I've learned over the course of the series is names really do mean things. Our names have a rich history, and a lot of those names that have that rich history are not the ones that are acknowledged. And so` It's not a case of every single name has to change. It's not a case of this name is any worse or better than this name. But it is a case of that we start the conversation of these names and their origins, because they mean something. They are important. And I think once that conversation does start, I think the thing that does flow on from that is change. And hopefully, through all this knowledge and understanding, that one day we get the name right. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2022 - Ko te reo te take.